Still fighting my Subaru: Idle issue continues

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New PCV valve, no joy. I have noticed a trend however.

Leaving from work in the evening activates the Incline Start Assist (i.e. hill holder) while still parked before backing up. That's okay because I am in fact parked on an incline nose down tail up about 5 degrees when in my spot in the lot. ISA on the 2009 operates via the ABS/VDC module, with an inclinometer located under the shifter console telling the ISA if the car's on an incline or not. The ISA then, for 1.5 seconds or until clutch pedal is released, will hold the same brake pressure the driver had on brake pedal. After the ISA releases and I head off, the brake pedal is stiffer than usual and idle quality is reduced.

The brake booster holds vacuum when the usual tests are applied-- pedal steady under pressure when stopped, three pumps of vacuum assist available with engine off before pedal goes hard. So I'm trying to figure out the relationship between when the ISA is activated on a *cold start* why the idle quality is down and pedal stiffer than usual. It obviously means there is a vacuum issue created after the ABS module applying brake pressure. When the issue is going on, if I shut down the engine at a stoplight and pump the brake to exhaust stored vacuum, then restart, the pedal feel goes back to normal and idle quality comes back up.

Add to this mystery that the car always has DTC codes stored in history (CEL not lit) for a voltage loss to the ABS/VDC module, and for a comms loss between the ECU and the ABS/VDC module.

The check valve for the brake booster is located inside the vacuum supply hose that goes from intake manifold to the booster, so to replace it you have to buy the entire new hose for about $40.
 
I would be looking for a corroded or loose ground. Don't ignore the body end of the main battery cable. Also, check to make certain the engine to body strap is intact, and clean/tight at both ends. Subarus are known to have issues, when grounds get weak.

Also.......It might be worth doing a battery load test. Sick batteries can cause some odd voltage issues. If the battery cannot test with at least 75% of its rated cranking rating, I would replace it.
 
I have been over the thing with a fine tooth comb, vac lines, ground straps and ground wires, all okay. Battery tested at 12.1 engine off 14.7 engine on (no accessories on).

I am about ready to take a Ball Peen hammer to it.

If it were an automatic the sluffy idle wouldn't be as annoying, but with a manual trans it makes you have to feather the throttle more when starting off... on a car that already could use a bit more torque coming off the line even when its running right.
 
Originally Posted By: LoneRanger
I have been over the thing with a fine tooth comb, vac lines, ground straps and ground wires, all okay. Battery tested at 12.1 engine off 14.7 engine on (no accessories on).

I am about ready to take a Ball Peen hammer to it.

If it were an automatic the sluffy idle wouldn't be as annoying, but with a manual trans it makes you have to feather the throttle more when starting off... on a car that already could use a bit more torque coming off the line even when its running right.


12.1 volts is way low....Not an indication of good battery health. It should read 12.6 at a minimum, after the surface charge has dissipated. Load testing will likely reveal a battery with a questionable cell.
 
Originally Posted By: 4wheeldog
Originally Posted By: LoneRanger
Battery tested at 12.1 engine off 14.7 engine on (no accessories on).


12.1 volts is way low....Not an indication of good battery health. It should read 12.6 at a minimum, after the surface charge has dissipated. Load testing will likely reveal a battery with a questionable cell.


4wheeldog beat me to it, but 12.1 is around 50% charged on a lead-acid battery. Get the cold-cranking amps tested; I'd bet they're far below the new stated rating.
 
The nominal voltage for a lead acid cell is 2.1v, so 12.6 is cited as the normal voltage. However, both of my vehicles with fairly new batteries usually read 12.13 - 12.3, maybe because of things that are 'always on' or whatever. If you have a really bad cell you would be at 10 volts or lower ( 5 cells @ 2.1) .

It still might be worth testing the battery. They can have some pretty strange problems sometimes and it's always good to test the easy things when you can.

When the OP stated he has to feather the throttle when releasing the clutch rang a bell with me, as I have noticed the same thing lately. Otherwise the idle is ok. I was thinking maybe the injectors have a little buildup, or maybe sub standard fuel.
 
LR, is the battery original? Like said, ~12.1VDC is a bit low, but the ~14.7VDC at idle sounds good. Batteries can do some strange things to today's vehicles though.

Can you borrow a battery from another vehicle?

FWIW, the hot idle on my 2014 XV Crosstrek 5spd is annoyingly low as well. I've stumbled/stalled it many a time on take-off. Annoying and embarrassing.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: datech
The nominal voltage for a lead acid cell is 2.1v, so 12.6 is cited as the normal voltage. However, both of my vehicles with fairly new batteries usually read 12.13 - 12.3, maybe because of things that are 'always on' or whatever. If you have a really bad cell you would be at 10 volts or lower ( 5 cells @ 2.1) .

It still might be worth testing the battery. They can have some pretty strange problems sometimes and it's always good to test the easy things when you can.

When the OP stated he has to feather the throttle when releasing the clutch rang a bell with me, as I have noticed the same thing lately. Otherwise the idle is ok. I was thinking maybe the injectors have a little buildup, or maybe sub standard fuel.



A cell does not need to produce 0 volts to be bad. 12.1 volts could be a couple of weak cells. Regardless, Subaru ECUs can be very finicky about battery condition. Just sayin'.
 
The battery is an 85 month Subaru OEM replacement installed 08/13/2013 @ 35,916 miles. Current mileage is approx 43,500.
I hope to think it's not getting weak already.
 
Was the 12.1V measured in the morning after it has been sitting overnight or after it was run for the day?

Our Trailblazer was having a stumbling issue and it turns out that the month old A/C Delco battery I put in had developed a bad cell. Not common, but it happens.
 
Have the issues not been present since the battery was replaced? Subarus that were electric throttle plated were horrible after a battery replacement because it wiped memory clean. The dirt in the throttle body and on the plate was slowly compensated for as you drove but once the memory is wiped clean it will run like [censored]. I know it's been awhile but it also sounds like you've been messing with it a lot trying to resolve it so maybe you've disconnected the battery again. If it were me I'd disconnect the battery and clean the throttle really well and see how it acts.

The only thing that doesn't make me so certain is your brake fault code you say you have. Are you capable of clearing that fault? Are you sure it wasn't set when the battery was replaced or if you've disconnexted the battery with the key on? Abs faults don't usually clear themselves they stay in the controller till cleared with a capable scan tool.
 
Originally Posted By: t1snwrbrdr12
Have the issues not been present since the battery was replaced?


It all started after I changed the spark plugs because I had to completely remove battery to do so. Plugs are the correct NGK FR5AP-11 gapped to 0.41. No cross threading because I carefully spun them down to gasket contact with a length of 3/8" rubber fuel hose slipped onto the insulators. Impossible to cross thread or otherwise gall threads that way.

Originally Posted By: t1snwrbrdr12
Subarus that were electric throttle plated were horrible after a battery replacement because it wiped memory clean. The dirt in the throttle body and on the plate was slowly compensated for as you drove but once the memory is wiped clean it will run like [censored]. I know it's been awhile but it also sounds like you've been messing with it a lot trying to resolve it so maybe you've disconnected the battery again. If it were me I'd disconnect the battery and clean the throttle really well and see how it acts.


I've done the idle reset procedure a couple times since. It's where with a cold engine you disconnect the battery, wait a while, reconnect it, turn key to on and wait at least 10 seconds for the electric throttle control to set the plate, then start it and let it idle with no accessories on until the radiator fans turn on.

Originally Posted By: t1snwrbrdr12
The only thing that doesn't make me so certain is your brake fault code you say you have. Are you capable of clearing that fault?


I don't have a scanner.

Originally Posted By: t1snwrbrdr12
Are you sure it wasn't set when the battery was replaced or if you've disconnexted the battery with the key on? Abs faults don't usually clear themselves they stay in the controller till cleared with a capable scan tool.


Key always off when disconnecting the battery.

There was a weird thing that happened a couple times at that first key-on after reconnecting battery where you wait 10 seconds: the electric throttle controller made a clickety clicking sound for about 2 seconds, but other times for the same procedure it remained quiet. Seems like it ought to be consistent and make either no sound or the same clicking sound each time. Maybe the throttle controller has gotten shadey but I don't know how to test.

I do need to pull the air box and have a look at the throttle body and plate, maybe it could be dirty but I tend to doubt it since the mileage is low at 43,500 and I stay on top of air cleaner filter schedule.

Oh well, it gives me something to do. LoL.
 
Sure your battery cables are firmly re-attached, and the ends are still on solidly? Grounds clean and well-attached? Subies have [censored] electrical connections in general, as they age.
 
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