Red Line 5w30 or 5w20 or 0w20?

[LemanJoe]

Hi guys,
I have been following this forum for a while now, but did not have time to register and write. You can call me a passive participant.

Here is my dilemma:
I have a couple of car in the family requiring 0w20 and 5w20 or 5w30. I was running M1 for 20 years now and was of very high opinion of M1 in general.

Everything changed when I purchased my Subaru Forester and it burned oil from the factory lot. To try to cure the issue, I used anything from Toyota 0w20 to Enos, etc. The only oil really helping my burning was RedLine. I am in love with RL and will continue to use it until I sell my Foz.
Now, I want to take my other car to Red line as well. The oil is pricey, so I am looking to switch to the same viscosity as my Subaru to save money. My Hyundai car run either on 5w20 or 5w30/10w30. I ran M1 5w20 in it and had a tad of oil consumption as well(300 mil in 5k miles). I switched to M1 5w30 and it runs perfect with no oil burn-off at all. I want to switch to Red Line.
Do you think it would be OK to run 0w20 in the Hyundai? I am a little scared by RL's 5w30 100C viscosity. Both cars under the warranty and I need to stay within manufacturing specs. I will also run oil tests to extend oil change intervals.

Thanks for all your input.
Joe

 

[Greasymechtech]

Fear of warranty and extended oil change interval is a contradiction.

I'd run Redline 0w20 for the full manufacturer recommended interval in any vehicle requiring 5w20 or 0w20.

 

[Oil Changer]

Why are you scared about RL's 5W-30 100C viscosity?

 

[OneEyeJack]

I run Red Line 0w-30 in both vehicles listed below with excellent results.

For a while I drove a 2nd generation Prius and used Red Line 0w-20, also with excellent results. The job required a lot of driving and when it was completed the car was put into delivery service for documents and driven 3 shifts a day by at least 5 different drivers in the greater LA area. The car is still running today with over 500K miles. The oil consumption is too little to measure and the OCI is 10-15K miles.

It appears that Red Line is not popular among BITOG members but it's a very good oil and for me, worth the expense. I purchase all my Red Line products from the Fallbrook Oil Company in Fallbrook, California. They stock everything and have good prices.

 

[LemanJoe]

Originally Posted By: Greasymechtech
Fear of warranty and extended oil change interval is a contradiction.



I disagree.
I will stay within warranty if I either change at factory specified mileage or have a justifiable data to extend to a reasonable interval. I will not run to excessive and will be very conservative when I read my oil tests.

Thanks for your advice.

Do you think, my Hyundai would start burning a little oil again with 0w20? Again, I am very happy with M1 5w30, which is much thicker at 100C but not as thick as RL 5w30.

 

[LemanJoe]

Originally Posted By: Oil Changer
Why are you scared about RL's 5W-30 100C viscosity?

Cause my buddy tried GC 0w30 in Subaru and it did not work that well: misses, hesitation, knock. He changed to M1 0w20 and everything was cured right away. GC is almost as thick as RL 5w30.

 

[LemanJoe]

Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
I run Red Line 0w-30 in both vehicles listed below with excellent results.

For a while I drove a 2nd generation Prius and used Red Line 0w-20, also with excellent results. The job required a lot of driving and when it was completed the car was put into delivery service for documents and driven 3 shifts a day by at least 5 different drivers in the greater LA area. The car is still running today with over 500K miles. The oil consumption is too little to measure and the OCI is 10-15K miles.

It appears that Red Line is not popular among BITOG members but it's a very good oil and for me, worth the expense. I purchase all my Red Line products from the Fallbrook Oil Company in Fallbrook, California. They stock everything and have good prices.


Thanks for your info. I am running between Ohio and NC. None of the places have RL in stock and I have to purchase it on-line/amazon and pay for shipping. Thus, if I buy 24 qt or more, it makes more sense..Hence my ideas of converting. I can probably ask them to mix 2 kinds of oil for the same price. I really do not like 5w20 and prefer 5w30 in my Hyundai. Subaru will stay on 0w20 for sure: too many issues with other oils and I am not fixing something not broken.

 

[901Memphis]

Originally Posted By: LemanJoe
Originally Posted By: Oil Changer
Why are you scared about RL's 5W-30 100C viscosity?

Cause my buddy tried GC 0w30 in Subaru and it did not work that well: misses, hesitation, knock. He changed to M1 0w20 and everything was cured right away. GC is almost as thick as RL 5w30.




Missing, hesitation and knock from thicker oil? That's ridiculous.

 

[Merkava_4]

Originally Posted By: LemanJoe
I am a little scared by RL's 5w30 100C viscosity.


Get yourself a clear glass jar and put it next to your computer. Fill it up half way with 5W-30. Shake it around a little bit. Now tell me how thick the oil looks like to you.

 

[deven]

If you fear warranty then why use an oil that is not API certified? It would negate warranty as well.

 

[LemanJoe]

Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Originally Posted By: LemanJoe
I am a little scared by RL's 5w30 100C viscosity.


Get yourself a clear glass jar and put it next to your computer. Fill it up half way with 5W-30. Shake it around a little bit. Now tell me how thick the oil looks like to you.


I am not sure what you mean. I have seen, touched, and smelled various oils. 5w30 is a little heavier that 5w20 and 0w20. xw20's drain much quicker and so forth. What is your point?

 

[LemanJoe]

Originally Posted By: deven
If you fear warranty then why use an oil that is not API certified? It would negate warranty as well.


Red Line is not API certified? I thought it was.

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: LemanJoe
Originally Posted By: deven
If you fear warranty then why use an oil that is not API certified? It would negate warranty as well.


Red Line is not API certified? I thought it was.



Nope. However like Amsoil its a great product and is my favorite brand bar none however like Amsoil I cannot justify the cost.
If it solves a problem like you are saying then cost can be justified,however that's on you.
I would use redline exclusively but I just can't in my mind say it's any better than what I currently use in my particular applications.
But that's just me. I'm an "on sale" kind of guy. Overkill convinced me of the quality of m1 0w-40 and as soon as I could get jugs under 30 bucks I bought 10.
If I could get redline at those numbers I'd buy it all.

 

[Merkava_4]

Originally Posted By: LemanJoe
I am not sure what you mean. I have seen, touched, and smelled various oils. 5w30 is a little heavier that 5w20 and 0w20. xw20's drain much quicker and so forth. What is your point?


I tell that to everybody to get them over their fear of 30 weights. Give the glass jar a try.

 

[LemanJoe]

Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Originally Posted By: LemanJoe
I am not sure what you mean. I have seen, touched, and smelled various oils. 5w30 is a little heavier that 5w20 and 0w20. xw20's drain much quicker and so forth. What is your point?


I tell that to everybody to get them over their fear of 30 weights. Give the glass jar a try.


OK. I just did it and a black monster jumped out of the glass jag and ate my keyboard. I told him to get away and he did. Thanks to your advice, now I have to type with my mouse.

Joe

 

[il_signore97]

Originally Posted By: LemanJoe


OK. I just did it and a black monster jumped out of the glass jag and ate my keyboard. I told him to get away and he did. Thanks to your advice, now I have to type with my mouse.

Joe



Okay, now that was funny lol... And welcome to the forums by the way

But in all seriousness, by extending your oil drain intervals by any amount past the manufacturer's recommended mileage, you do run the risk of a warranty denial. It doesn't matter whether or not you have analysis reports saying that the oil is suitable for continued use. Analysis reports for $30 do not give you the entire picture, nor will hold any water with your manufacturer. I'm not trying to change your mind, but just pointing out the fact that it will be an uphill battle if you ended up in that situation... and this is coming from someone who always extended drain intervals regardless of warranty requirements. Make the choice that is best for you.

The same goes for the Redline oil (or other boutique oils such as Amsoil's top tier line up). They are NOT API certified oils. Their manufacturers state that they "meet or exceed API requirements". That may very well be true, but your manufacturer may not think so. Again, the choice is yours.

Lastly, especially with Redline products, there is more to oil viscosity grading than meats the eye. All 5W30's (for example) are not created equally. Firstly, every grade of oil is broken down into allowable viscosity ranges. So one 5W30 may be on the minimum of the grade, while another may be near the maximum. Also, a 0W30 could be thicker than a 5W30 at operating temp based on this grading system. It should be noted that all oil grading is based on kinematic viscosity, which means the oil's viscosity when NOT under any stress or shear. This is not normally the case within an engine though...

Which brings you to the HTHS value. The HTHS is measured under high temperature and high shear conditions, similar to what you would find within an engine bearing or moving cylinder ring against its bore. HTHS is only found on the data sheets of oils, and can vary between oils of the exact same grade. Therefore, one 5W30 could have an HTHS of 3.0 cP, whereas another could have an HTHS of 3.5 cP (a big difference). The one with 3.5 cP would be CONSIDERABLY thicker within the engine bearings.

With Redline oils, it's grades often have HTHS values of the next higher grade. Thus, a 5W20 Redline product has an HTHS value that most off the shelf 5W30 oils have. Therefore, it IS thicker than you think in your engine.

Take a look at the HTHS values of what you are using now, and you can figure out how much thicker or thinner Redline oils would be in the grades that you're looking at purchasing. You may be able to consolidate all of your vehicles if you so choose. Also, don't be afraid of a slightly thicker oil than necessary, it will not harm a thing.

 

[wemay]

For non-turbo, Hyundai recommends the viscosities you mention so I'm assuming it's a 1.6, 1.8 or 2.4. They also recommend API SM / ILSAC GF-4 with an OCI limit of 7500 miles. You're ahead of the game with ANY certified API SN oil meeting viscosity; conventional/synthetic or blend. Risking your warranty with a non-certified oil is a decision only you can make. Lots of great, certified products out there that might also stop your consumption. Since you seem like a synthetics user, I'd use any name brand syn and go the full interval.

 

[LemanJoe]

Originally Posted By: il_signore97
Originally Posted By: LemanJoe


OK. I just did it and a black monster jumped out of the glass jag and ate my keyboard. I told him to get away and he did. Thanks to your advice, now I have to type with my mouse.

Joe



Okay, now that was funny lol... And welcome to the forums by the way

But in all seriousness, by extending your oil drain intervals by any amount past the manufacturer's recommended mileage, you do run the risk of a warranty denial. It doesn't matter whether or not you have analysis reports saying that the oil is suitable for continued use. Analysis reports for $30 do not give you the entire picture, nor will hold any water with your manufacturer. I'm not trying to change your mind, but just pointing out the fact that it will be an uphill battle if you ended up in that situation... and this is coming from someone who always extended drain intervals regardless of warranty requirements. Make the choice that is best for you.

The same goes for the Redline oil (or other boutique oils such as Amsoil's top tier line up). They are NOT API certified oils. Their manufacturers state that they "meet or exceed API requirements". That may very well be true, but your manufacturer may not think so. Again, the choice is yours.

Lastly, especially with Redline products, there is more to oil viscosity grading than meats the eye. All 5W30's (for example) are not created equally. Firstly, every grade of oil is broken down into allowable viscosity ranges. So one 5W30 may be on the minimum of the grade, while another may be near the maximum. Also, a 0W30 could be thicker than a 5W30 at operating temp based on this grading system. It should be noted that all oil grading is based on kinematic viscosity, which means the oil's viscosity when NOT under any stress or shear. This is not normally the case within an engine though...

Which brings you to the HTHS value. The HTHS is measured under high temperature and high shear conditions, similar to what you would find within an engine bearing or moving cylinder ring against its bore. HTHS is only found on the data sheets of oils, and can vary between oils of the exact same grade. Therefore, one 5W30 could have an HTHS of 3.0 cP, whereas another could have an HTHS of 3.5 cP (a big difference). The one with 3.5 cP would be CONSIDERABLY thicker within the engine bearings.

With Redline oils, it's grades often have HTHS values of the next higher grade. Thus, a 5W20 Redline product has an HTHS value that most off the shelf 5W30 oils have. Therefore, it IS thicker than you think in your engine.

Take a look at the HTHS values of what you are using now, and you can figure out how much thicker or thinner Redline oils would be in the grades that you're looking at purchasing. You may be able to consolidate all of your vehicles if you so choose. Also, don't be afraid of a slightly thicker oil than necessary, it will not harm a thing.



Thank you for your reply. In my Hyundai, I was running M1 5w20 with HTHS 2.75. I switched to M1 5w30 with 3.1 and the difference is tremendous. No oil use, better engine sounds, very smooth operation , etc with 5w30. I was not totally aware that RedLine is not API certified and it could be the end of the story. I have 100k miles warranty and do not want to risk it, period.
I guess, I will have to stay with M1 for now, unless something better comes-up with API cert. Now, my Subaru will definitely stay with RedLine, as it helped its oil consumption and operation.

As far as extending changing intervals, I am very confident that if my car manufacturer ever tries to bend the terms of their warranty (a written contract), I would be able to fix the issue in the court. Unlike many, I have studied the term of the warranty and according to my interpretation, should be able to deviate to some extend from their recommendation. On the other hand, you are right, it is not worth the trouble.

 

[LemanJoe]

Originally Posted By: wemay
For non-turbo, Hyundai recommends the viscosities you mention so I'm assuming it's a 1.6, 1.8 or 2.4. They also recommend API SM / ILSAC GF-4 with an OCI limit of 7500 miles. You're ahead of the game with ANY certified API SN oil meeting viscosity; conventional/synthetic or blend. Risking your warranty with a non-certified oil is a decision only you can make. Lots of great, certified products out there that might also stop your consumption. Since you seem like a synthetics user, I'd use any name brand syn and go the full interval.


My engine is 2.0 GDI. Yes, my OCI is only 7500. The same engine in I40 in Europe is prescribed 30k km OCI with good Synthetic oil. Thus, it is possible and just another good argument to extend the oil life. I know that one can argue different fuels, weather conditions, etc. Bottom line is longer OCi's are possible in my application. Is it worth the trouble, probably not.

As far as API SN certified oils, I will disappoint you. API certification does not hold any water in my books. The specs are so "loosy-goosy" that lots of bad oils slide in and I do not want to use any of them for sure. Even among the same manufacturer, specs are all over the page. Again, Red Line performed well in my bikes and my Subaru and I wanted to find a suatable Red line for my Hyundai. Nevertheless, I will stay away from RL for Hyundai for now, since it is not an API certified oil. Just in case.

Joe

 

[wemay]

Originally Posted By: LemanJoe
Originally Posted By: wemay
For non-turbo, Hyundai recommends the viscosities you mention so I'm assuming it's a 1.6, 1.8 or 2.4. They also recommend API SM / ILSAC GF-4 with an OCI limit of 7500 miles. You're ahead of the game with ANY certified API SN oil meeting viscosity; conventional/synthetic or blend. Risking your warranty with a non-certified oil is a decision only you can make. Lots of great, certified products out there that might also stop your consumption. Since you seem like a synthetics user, I'd use any name brand syn and go the full interval.


My engine is 2.0 GDI. Yes, my OCI is only 7500. The same engine in I40 in Europe is prescribed 30k km OCI with good Synthetic oil. Thus, it is possible and just another good argument to extend the oil life. I know that one can argue different fuels, weather conditions, etc. Bottom line is longer OCi's are possible in my application. Is it worth the trouble, probably not.

As far as API SN certified oils, I will disappoint you. API certification does not hold any water in my books. The specs are so "loosy-goosy" that lots of bad oils slide in and I do not want to use any of them for sure. Even among the same manufacturer, specs are all over the page. Again, Red Line performed well in my bikes and my Subaru and I wanted to find a suatable Red line for my Hyundai. Nevertheless, I will stay away from RL for Hyundai for now, since it is not an API certified oil. Just in case.

Joe


Not disappointed at all. In that case, go with an ACEA A5 approved oil. Its one recommendation choice listed for my 2.0T SFS by Hyundai. I will say though, I have no issue using any (RC) major brand found at Walmart; EDGE, M1, QSUD, PPPP or Synpower. All excellent oils in my estimation. With EDGE EP and M1 EP possibly at the top in 5w20/ w30 and 10w30.

I'm sure you'll choose well. Welcome to BITOG.