Can someone explain Relief Valve Setting to me?

[Ramblejam]

Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
Like I said, its not impossible. But I've still never seen it happen. That engine is obviously in horrible shape, I'm not sure bypass location is going to help it much.

Hilarious.

Delivers fuel economy in excess of EPA numbers
Starts perfectly fine in subzero temps
Has no external oil leakage
Perfect oil pressure
No blue smoke during start
No blue smoke during operation
Turbo now outputting twice the pressure (7 vs. 14 psi.)
Etc, etc, etc...

As well, that's with no internal mechanical work, but merely an oil change. Yep, just absolutely horrible shape.

You jumped into this thread and have made statements based upon your theoretical understanding of oil filter operation, leave some room to wiggle, and then double-down when actual evidence that conflicts with your beliefs is presented. I'm sure you're a walking encyclopedia of Mopar knowledge, but this is nuts, man.

 

[crazyoildude]

this is one reason most engine makers like the good ol rock catches like toyota, gm, Ford, Chrysler and lots of others they prefer flow with as little of bypass action as possible like i do.

 

[Nate1979]

Originally Posted By: crazyoildude
this is one reason most engine makers like the good ol rock catches like toyota, gm, Ford, Chrysler and lots of others they prefer flow with as little of bypass action as possible like i do.


Where is it specified that those OEMs specify rock catchers? That's a myth spread on this site.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: 4wheeldog
Originally Posted By: SnowDrifter
It always bothers me when people talk about filter bypass setting as if it pertains to the car itself.... It doesn't. Filter bypass is based on the filter and it's design. Things like flow rate and media strength are what determine the bypass pressure. If it's set too high the media will be crushed. Has nothing to do with the car. Don't think too far into it. Different filters for the same car will have different bypass settings because each filter is a little bit different


Then why is it that a couple of car manufacturers (Subaru, and apparently, Audi) specify a relief setting way outside the norm? It ain't because the filters are built differently.....


Because some of those Subaru turbocharged engines put out some insane oil pump volume.

 

[geeman789]

Subaru turbo engines had a banjo bolt, a hollow bolt with a fine mesh screen on the turbo oil inlet hose. Some say that the high by-pass pressure was spec'd to minimize by-pass events... because the screens were clogging and turbos were failing... stupid design.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

SUBARU
The pump can put out a good volume but it wont all go through the engine.
They don't run wide mains clears .

 

[dlundblad]

Originally Posted By: Nate1979
Originally Posted By: crazyoildude
this is one reason most engine makers like the good ol rock catches like toyota, gm, Ford, Chrysler and lots of others they prefer flow with as little of bypass action as possible like i do.


Where is it specified that those OEMs specify rock catchers? That's a myth spread on this site.


I believe the term originated with the WIX XP.. Lol.

When I think rock catcher, I think of the VW screen.

 

[SHOZ]

The Hyundai spin on filter is a 20 psi bypass. It's speced for many different engines.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Toyota rock catchers have been verified through ASTM testing.

 

[Nate1979]

I think too many conclusions are drawn from the fact that Toyota filters may be rock catchers.

Are all Toyota filters rock catchers? Is that a Toyota spec or just cost savings? Why don't other US OEMs specify rock catchers?

To me too many unknowns to draw any conclusions.

 

[kschachn]

All I've ever seen is that one-and-only AMSOIL chart from a long time ago. Have you ever seen any other source of data on a Toyota (or Denso) filter anywhere? I haven't. Everyone just bases this conclusion on that one little chart.

Besides, the point is does it matter.

Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Toyota rock catchers have been verified through ASTM testing.

 

[goodtimes]

So bypass settings are really only for the filter manufacturer's spec on their media, construction, etc? Seems to me the engine manufacturer only specs the bypass pressure based on their own filter? The engine doesn't "care", it only "wants" oil to flow. So bypass setting differences don't matter one whit if this is true. I was wondering as different filter makers have so many different settings for the same car. Also the same model filter may be used on dozens of different cars.

 

[goodtimes]

Originally Posted By: SnowDrifter
It always bothers me when people talk about filter bypass setting as if it pertains to the car itself.... It doesn't. Filter bypass is based on the filter and it's design. Things like flow rate and media strength are what determine the bypass pressure. If it's set too high the media will be crushed. Has nothing to do with the car. Don't think too far into it. Different filters for the same car will have different bypass settings because each filter is a little bit different

I see you already answered what I was thinking. Never thought of it before, makes sense. As for Subaru and their turbo screen supposedly clogging, special case, use the Subaru filter.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
SUBARU
The pump can put out a good volume but it wont all go through the engine. They don't run wide mains clears .


It won't all go through the engine, but it all goes through the full flow oil filter.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
All I've ever seen is that one-and-only AMSOIL chart from a long time ago. Have you ever seen any other source of data on a Toyota (or Denso) filter anywhere? I haven't. Everyone just bases this conclusion on that one little chart.


Old member "river_rat" did some testing of a bunch of different oil filter using talcum powder (which is near the 20 micron range or even smaller), and his results showed the Toyota Denso filters undoubtedly let more particles through. So I believe the Amsoil independent ISO 4548-12 test results for the Toyota filters being not real efficient.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: goodtimes
So bypass settings are really only for the filter manufacturer's spec on their media, construction, etc? Seems to me the engine manufacturer only specs the bypass pressure based on their own filter? The engine doesn't "care", it only "wants" oil to flow. So bypass setting differences don't matter one whit if this is true. I was wondering as different filter makers have so many different settings for the same car. Also the same model filter may be used on dozens of different cars.


The engine's max oil flow and the viscosity of oil used, and also the worse use conditions (ie, cold Montana winters) are most likely all factors that the filter designer takes into consideration. If Filter X is designed to be used on 100 different cars, then it should be designed to take whatever car has the engine that would put the most strain on the filter.

 

[kschachn]

Well great, we have the disembodied AMSOIL page/chart and an unseen talcum powder test. Super.

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: kschachn
All I've ever seen is that one-and-only AMSOIL chart from a long time ago. Have you ever seen any other source of data on a Toyota (or Denso) filter anywhere? I haven't. Everyone just bases this conclusion on that one little chart.

Old member "river_rat" did some testing of a bunch of different oil filter using talcum powder (which is near the 20 micron range or even smaller), and his results showed the Toyota Denso filters undoubtedly let more particles through. So I believe the Amsoil independent ISO 4548-12 test results for the Toyota filters being not real efficient.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
Well great, we have the disembodied AMSOIL page/chart and an unseen talcum powder test. Super.

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: kschachn
All I've ever seen is that one-and-only AMSOIL chart from a long time ago. Have you ever seen any other source of data on a Toyota (or Denso) filter anywhere? I haven't. Everyone just bases this conclusion on that one little chart.

Old member "river_rat" did some testing of a bunch of different oil filter using talcum powder (which is near the 20 micron range or even smaller), and his results showed the Toyota Denso filters undoubtedly let more particles through. So I believe the Amsoil independent ISO 4548-12 test results for the Toyota filters being not real efficient.


If you don't like the data, then try to contact the Denso engineering department and see how far you can get.