GroupV Base oils

[MolaKule]

True or False:

GroupV base are superior for any application?


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[CT8]

It would depend if you are considering Amsoil [false] or Redline [true].

 

[Shannow]

False...

 

[Revving2Redline]

Its ideal for very high temps only. I fear it has an attraction to moisture and wouldnt fair well.

 

[daves87rs]

False

 

[userfriendly]

I remember an old thread where an aircraft mechanic
mixed JTO into his pick-up truck engine oil.

And another thread further back that JTOs make the best
varnish remover when blended with hydraulic oil.

Are we discussing personal lubricants?
Then the answer is I wouldn't know.
Or I know and not telling.

 

[gfh77665]

Originally Posted By: MolaKule
True or False:

GroupV base are superior for any application?



True, as Group V oils are superior for extreme high temp applications.

 

[Trav]

False.

 

[Falken]

I'd say superior in very special case temp extremes.

IIRC, PAG oil for AC system is still used (GR-V?) so it doesn't freeze up.

I doubt they use a Group III for that yet.

 

[A_Harman]

PAG is superior for A/C and air compressor lubrication.
POE's are superior for gas turbine lubrication.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: A_Harman
PAG is superior for A/C and air compressor lubrication.
POE's are superior for gas turbine lubrication.


Air compressor? Way different operation than a closed, dry AC system.

Many gas turbines use basic R&O add packs in group I/II stocks. The aeroderivative ones seem more likely to require a fancy lube.

 

[A_Harman]

What gas turbines are not aero-derivative?

 

[HerrStig]

Originally Posted By: A_Harman
What gas turbines are not aero-derivative?
Peak load power plants running on natural gas.

 

[Tom NJ]

Which Group V base oils; polyol esters, diesters, vegetable oils, PAGs, silicones, alkylated naphthalenes, polybutenes, naphthenics, alkyl benzenes, phosphate esters, perfluorinated ethers, etc. etc.?

And which applications; automotive engines, transmissions, gear boxes, jet engines, air compressors, hydraulic systems, metalworking, 2-stroke engines, brake systems, lawnmowers, refrigeration systems, tenter frames, textile, transformers, etc. etc.

To such a broad question, the only answer is "It depends".

Tom NJ

 

[A_Harman]

Originally Posted By: HerrStig
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
What gas turbines are not aero-derivative?
Peak load power plants running on natural gas.


I was hoping for a manufacturer and model designation so I could look it up...

 

[A_Harman]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
PAG is superior for A/C and air compressor lubrication.
POE's are superior for gas turbine lubrication.


Air compressor? Way different operation than a closed, dry AC system.

Many gas turbines use basic R&O add packs in group I/II stocks. The aeroderivative ones seem more likely to require a fancy lube.


Air compressor? Check this link:
http://www.infineuminsight.com/insight/april-2015/synthetics-gain-ground

 

[Tom NJ]

Originally Posted By: A_Harman
PAG is superior for A/C and air compressor lubrication.
POE's are superior for gas turbine lubrication.


There is a lot more ester used in refrigeration systems and air compressors than PAG.

All aviation jet turbine engines are based entirely on POEs.

Tom NJ

 

[MolaKule]

The reason I asked this question is because when someone mentions Group V base oils many people go gaga and assume that ALL Group V components are superior, but this is not the case.

Group V base oils include all remaining oils not placed in Groups I to IV and include non-synthetic and synthetic oils such as polybutenes, alkylated naphthalenes, bio-oils, white oils, esters, phosphate esters, perfluorinated ethers, certain Napthenics, silicones, alkylated benzenes, PFPEs, Ionic Liquids, and polyalkylene glycols.

Naphthenic oils are Group V oils but do not show superior characteristics in all applications. In many applications, certain naphthenics are used primarily as solvents.

So those who answered, "False," or "it depends," or "for what base oil and application," are correct.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: A_Harman
I was hoping for a manufacturer and model designation so I could look it up...


Try this one

http://www.alstom.com/Global/Power/Resources/Documents/Brochures/gt24-and-gt26-gas-turbines.pdf

Interesting how the combustion process is spread into high and l;ow pressure combustors to control blade temperature and keep efficiency high.

 

[gfh77665]

Originally Posted By: MolaKule
...and assume that ALL Group V components are superior, but this is not the case.

Naphthenic oils are Group V oils but do not show superior characteristics in all applications. In many applications, certain naphthenics are used primarily as solvents.

So those who answered, "False," or "it depends," or "for what base oil and application," are correct.


The question posed was: Are GroupV base are superior for any application?

I would say an "extreme high temp applications" would meet the test of "any", (as opposed to "ALL" or "MANY").