Mobil 1 0W20 EP/Ceratec add, 6327, XV Crosstrek Hybrid

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2014 Subaru XV Crosstrek Hybrid
First sample at 23,423 on the clock, 6327 on the sample, Mobil 1 0W20 EP with 1 bottle of Liqui-Moly Ceratec added for sh*ts and giggles. Mostly highway miles at speeds of 60 to 80, including 1 trip from CA to CO at altitudes of 8500 to 10,500 elevation.

FRAM Ultra filter.

Subaru calls for 7500 mile oil changes for 2014, and now 6,000 mile OCI for 2015 Model Year.

Blackstone: "Thanks for the note about the additive. You can see how much that boosted the moly level. Normally
we'll see moly at 70-90 ppm in this oil. Anyway, this oil is working nicely for you and your new Subaru is
wearing really well. Universal averages show typical wear levels for this type of engine after about 5,800
miles on the oil. You ran longer and got lower wear than average - it doesn't get much better than that! The
TBN is still strong too, so if you'd like to try 7500 or 8500 miles next time, that should be just fine. No
coolant or fuel found. Air/oil filtration are both good."

Sample Universal Average
AL 2 3
CHR 0 0
IRON 7 8
COPPER 1 5
LEAD 0 0
TIN 0 0
MOLY 362 92
NICKEL 0 0
MANG 0 2
SILVER 0 0
TITANIUM 1 0
POTASSIUM 3 1
BORON 366 93
SILICON 26 27
SODIUM 9 11
CALCIUM 1319 1928
MAGNESIUM 701 284
PHOSPHOR 611 708
ZINC 693 805
BARIUM 0 0

SUS VISC@210 51 46-57
cST VISC@100 7.64 6-9.7
FLASHPT 395 >385


TBN 4.6 >1

Enjoy!
 
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The report looks good. I didn't realize Liqui-Moly Ceratec boosts moly levels too?
 
Not trying to go on a rant but why do people uses Ceratec. If I'm not mistaken it coats the inside of the motors, along with the oil passages that makes them smaller. Oil passages doesn't see wear so the odds that the Ceratec stays in the passages for the life of the motor is pretty high. Not only that but people rarely use this stuff just once they use it multiple times compounding the negatives for a short lived positive.

This is the same idea behind Slick 50 and its "Teflon" coating that everyone dislikes so much. Same idea, same thing, different additive. Why such love for Ceratec then?
 
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This was the first time I used an additive. Not to change the focus of my UOA, but the Ceratec did seem to quiet this engine down a bit as this engine (FB20) had a bit of racket (i.e., noisy, buzzy, or as one other web poster put it "like an old VW") that I haven't heard in my other cars (which have been Porsche, MB, and Infiniti in the recent past). I thought it couldn't hurt.

I haven't really noticed any increase in MPG.

Other users can add why they "love" the product. I don't intend to use it again for a while, since the instructions state no need to use it every oil change.
 
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Originally Posted By: 3800Series
Not trying to go on a rant but why do people uses Ceratec. If I'm not mistaken it coats the inside of the motors, along with the oil passages that makes them smaller. Oil passages doesn't see wear so the odds that the Ceratec stays in the passages for the life of the motor is pretty high. Not only that but people rarely use this stuff just once they use it multiple times compounding the negatives for a short lived positive.

This is the same idea behind Slick 50 and its "Teflon" coating that everyone dislikes so much. Same idea, same thing, different additive. Why such love for Ceratec then?
how thick is the coating supposed to be ?
 
There are other posts on Ceratec in the Oil Additive Forum on this site. So check that out if you want more details. I don't know the specifics -- and again thought it wouldn't hurt since Liqui Moly makes good engine oils.

The UOA indicates higher levels of Boron and Moly -- which is from the Ceratec for sure.


See, e.g. in Oil Additives: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do?

"Micro ceramic solid lubricant suspension based on hexagonal boron nitride (BN) in mineral oil. The laminar graphite - similar structure reduces friction and wear and prevents direct metal-to-metal contact. The < 0.5m particle size guarantees optimal filter flow properties and protects against depositing of solid lubricant particles."
 
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Originally Posted By: 3800Series
Not trying to go on a rant but why do people uses Ceratec. If I'm not mistaken it coats the inside of the motors, along with the oil passages that makes them smaller. Oil passages doesn't see wear so the odds that the Ceratec stays in the passages for the life of the motor is pretty high. Not only that but people rarely use this stuff just once they use it multiple times compounding the negatives for a short lived positive.

This is the same idea behind Slick 50 and its "Teflon" coating that everyone dislikes so much. Same idea, same thing, different additive. Why such love for Ceratec then?


Your mistaken.


It's doesn't coat anything. The product requires heat and pressure. The active compounds are forced into the metal where there is contact such as a cam lobe or cylinder wall. These compounds fill in the microscopic hills and valleys present on these contacting surfaces and they anneal the surface which creates not only a sacrificial layer microns thin in case of contact and reduces friction because these coated contact surfaces are less resistant.


So put that entire idea out of your head. There is no coating without pressure created when the oil is forced between surfaces.
Mos2 works in the same way but doesn't last as long.
 
Originally Posted By: CT8
Originally Posted By: 3800Series
Not trying to go on a rant but why do people uses Ceratec. If I'm not mistaken it coats the inside of the motors, along with the oil passages that makes them smaller. Oil passages doesn't see wear so the odds that the Ceratec stays in the passages for the life of the motor is pretty high. Not only that but people rarely use this stuff just once they use it multiple times compounding the negatives for a short lived positive.

This is the same idea behind Slick 50 and its "Teflon" coating that everyone dislikes so much. Same idea, same thing, different additive. Why such love for Ceratec then?
how thick is the coating supposed to be ?



Microns

It's not like paint and just keeps on coating adding layers thru oil passages. In fact unless there is pressure like in a bearing or cam lobe it doesn't adhere at all.
 
Since XM uses a different type of Moly(which I know nothing about but Overk1ll does) than most other oils, why add something different to their 0-20? Their formulators seem to know what they are doing. Just sayin.
 
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I use M1 and other top quality oils in my other cars, including my 911 and don't use additives. There is something very different about this Subaru FB20 engine (and lack of sound insulation) in terms of noise that neither M1 AFE, Pennzoil Platinum, nor M1 EP could do to quiet the racket.

The engine in the XV Crosstrek is somewhat underpowered, 4 cylinder Boxer engine with a CVT. My other cars generally have been 6 cyl with auto (e.g., Infiniti EX 35, Honda Pilot) or manual (e.g. 911, Toyota Supra) and sounded much different either quiet (MB C350, Infiniti, EX, Saabs) or loud in a good way (911).

The Ceratec made an instant and pretty dramatic difference that makes the XV seem like a more expensive, quiet car. You will only know if you try it yourself. I have no "statistics" only my before and after 1 time experiment after driving the car 24000 miles since September 2014.

I have no plans on using it on my Porsche or any other vehicle at this point. It seems to help with this vehicle in particular. The UOA also indicates very good wear numbers below average for the mileage. While in other cars I ran extended oil changes (like 13k on MB C350 with M1 0W40), I will stick to 7500 or less since the car is under warranty until 100k.
 
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I'd love to run it further, but Subaru recommends 7500 mile OCI and I don't want any warranty issues -- since I've already experienced issues with warranty coverage.
 
I should also add that a very reputable Porsche engine rebuild shop and developer emphatically tells Porsche 996 owners to NOT use M1 0W40. Since recently obtaining this builder's Intermediate Shaft Solution (or IMS Solution), I am now using 5W40 Joe Gibbs DT40 with higher levels of ZDDP than M1 or other brands, along with shorter oil change intervals of 3 to 5,000 miles as recommended by most non-dealer Porsche shops.

So, some do not believe that M1 has all the answers for every engine, such as the 996 boxer with inherent design problems.

My 996 is about to hit 75k miles and I hope it will continue to run well for at least another 75k. Mobil 1 probably was used most of this car's life, but I'm going with some extra protection now.
 
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Nice uoa and No problems extending your intervals out to 7,500 miles.

I have a feeling that Doug Hillary and some others may give their two cents about that shops Mobil1 0W40 comment.
wink.gif


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No doubt.

But this guy rebuilds the 996 engines that blow up -- as he likes to say - tick, tick BOOM.

He developed a repair for the IMS issues that cause engines to blow, when Porsche failed to offer owners a solution (until 2009 when they got rid of the IMS bearing).

I am satisfied that he is looking out for Porsche owners' best interests in reducing engine related wear -- for the long term (i.e., when out of warranty).

But, I've used M1 0W40 for several years in multiple cars and will continue to use the 0W20 EP in the XV Crosstrek -- and yes I will take it out to 7,500 until my warranty is up -- although sometimes I like to change it earlier.
 
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BN + Moly bond under heat and pressure to form a very hard sacrificial layer that Liqui-Moly claims can last 30K miles. Seems like an excellent and worthwhile additive.

http://www.liqui-moly.de/liquimoly/mediendb.nsf/gfx2/3721%20Cera%20Tec_EN.pdf/$file/3721%20Cera%20Tec_EN.pdf

The Subaru boxer engine requires an oil high in Moly and Boron to run smooth and quiet. The best oil I have found is Pennzoil 10w30 for my EJ25 but if you want to keep with a 20 grade with the FB20, choose an oil high in both Moly and Boron. Pennzoil 5w20 is one.

http://www.pqiamerica.com/Feb2014/consolidated5w20ALL.html

Maybe Quaker State in a 0w20.

http://www.pqiamerica.com/June 2014/consolidated 0W-20.html
 
The old API SM Subaru oil had a lot of moly as well. Probably very difficult to find now though.
 
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