NEW Home CentraL AC quote really Pricey!

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ARCOgraphite

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Need to replace the split system in my moms 2100 sqft condo in Ft Myers; we've been band-aiding it for years and its time to go.

It's a 3.5 or 4 ton system (~40ooo btuh) and im getting quotes of over 6 grand to do this. I see the wholesale cost of the unit(s)** is around 2700- shipped and I added 700 for labour and 500 misc and 25% markup to the company and I don't get to 6grand. What am I missing?

Looking at a bottom of the line 13 seer Rheem/RUUD split system 4 tons (from AC wholesalers).

Thanks for any insight.

** air handler evaporator with 10kw heat and condenser + cheapie prog controller

Ken
 
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I replaced my 27 year old builder grade junk HVAC units a few years ago with 21 SEER Trane units. They work great, multi stage, variable fan, etc., super quiet, and significantly lowered utility bills. They were not inexpensive but worth every penny.
 
I just replaced my system, it was $5200 for 4 ton 13 seer builder basic units. That was all 3 pieces + a Wi-Fi thermostat installed. I had some additional ductwork done that brought the final cost up to $5800.

I researched higher seer and two stage units, and couldn't justify the difference in cost.
 
Too large a unit in my opinion. Contractors size units so big that the place will be overcooled. This avoids callbacks. Problem is larger units do not dehumitify very well. They also cycle off and on to much and they cost more. 2.5 tons is all lthe larger I would go.

I have half that amount in window units for my 1500 square house and that is enough.
 
Originally Posted By: cashmoney
I replaced my 27 year old builder grade junk HVAC units a few years ago with 21 SEER Trane units. They work great, multi stage, variable fan, etc., super quiet, and significantly lowered utility bills. They were not inexpensive but worth every penny.


Wow 21 seer? I didn't even know they went that high. At the time I bought mine, I went with a 14 seer which was considered slightly above average efficiency.
 
Depends on what you're getting- I wouldn't pay that much for anything Ruud/Rheem... but a multi-stage/multi-speed Lennox Elite or Trane with a ~20 SEER... yeah, that's not unusual. IMO its worth spending extra for a unit that's super quiet (you can hardly hear our Lennox running, especially below medium fan speed where it runs most of the time) and energy savings. Also the variable-speed units typically have better humidity control, which is great in muggy areas like mine.
 
In your area humidity will be a factor when sizing the unit. A unit with a super high SEER will not remove as much moisture from the air and you can end up with a high humidity environment with mold, etc.

In many locations the local power company will do a free heat load calculation so you know exactly what size unit is needed.

Another important factor is the correct size duct work. That should be checked for proper size and any leaks.

Often this time of year you can find some factory incentives through dealers. Don't hold off until middle of the cooling season.

Your power company may also give you some incentive on certain equipment there?

Correct size is VERY important. Bigger is NOT better! Get a heat load calculation done before buying.
 
Thanks guys for the replies.

I am unfortunately selling the condo under market as Mom is 96 and cant take care of herself anymore and she is running out of money fast - so I didnt want to go all out here. I just can't figure out how to get to 6 thousand bucks on a $2700- unit chop and drop reinstall ( well Im 1/2 Scottish afterall) Does the Company really need to take 50% markup over wholesale to keep the fleet going?
 
What equipment are they bidding? Seer? Where is the air handler? Is the condenser on the ground or roof.
Are they doing a heat load calculation? How do they know what size to install?
Are they pulling permits?

I'm on the east coast of FL and the price does not seem out of line. And yes I work for an HVACR contractor.

I would stay away from RUUD/RHEEM (yes they are the same units, same assembly line, just a different sticker) until they get the problems with the leaky evap coil sorted out, plus they came out with new models this year.

American Standard / Trane also the same.
 
There were a bunch of small parts that they provided when they installed mine that I am sure add up - refrigerant, they replaced the disconnect on the outside of the house for the AC unit, wiring and liquid-tite from the disconnect to the AC, a new overflow pan for the furnace and associated PVC drain, a float switch that turns off the unit if water accumulates, a new gas flex line, a new exhaust for the furnace, plus I am sure I am missing a bunch of things.
 
My experience with HVAC is knowing a guy helps a lot.

I got quotes of $4800 to replace a oil burner hot air furnace with cracked pipes in a home I was moving from. Luckily my father in law was owed a favor so for $300 install labor from off duty HVAC tech he purchased a low grade (worst efficiency) hot air furnace for $1400 on a contractors account.

The new home owners were delighted with the "brand new" furnace.

Craigslist?
 
Originally Posted By: FSully1
What equipment are they bidding? Seer? Where is the air handler? Is the condenser on the ground or roof.
Are they doing a heat load calculation? How do they know what size to install?
Are they pulling permits?

I'm on the east coast of FL and the price does not seem out of line. And yes I work for an HVACR contractor.

I would stay away from RUUD/RHEEM (yes they are the same units, same assembly line, just a different sticker) until they get the problems with the leaky evap coil sorted out, plus they came out with new models this year.

American Standard / Trane also the same.
The rheem using an all aluminum evap coil? I though they rigorously test them. Could be acid buildup from improper charging? Maybe corsion issues from AL pipe to Cu braze?

Spec'ing an economy R410A 13 seer contractor grade split system with 10kw E heat, updraft airhandler in closet 2nd floor, chop and drop job, condenser on concrete pad side of building, all drains and suction piping in place/
Honeywell prog T stat already there. I would want new condensate float valve. Easy Clean working conditions.


Maybe need to get independent guy so I don't have to pay the big company markup? Im not throwing them 100%.
 
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AC is like anything these days, many brands are the same stuff inside.

IMO the newer variable speed higher SEER units are well worth their price. When we upgraded to our 18 SEER Amana system the soft start and variable speed air handler AND compressor dropped our electric bill by a solid 100 bucks a month and is just super quiet and smooth.

I'd shop around, as prices varied tremendously in my area. But remember the installer is the most important part! So the cheapest guy may not be the best choice...
 
Originally Posted By: Al
Too large a unit in my opinion. Contractors size units so big that the place will be overcooled. This avoids callbacks. Problem is larger units do not dehumitify very well. They also cycle off and on to much and they cost more. 2.5 tons is all lthe larger I would go.

I have half that amount in window units for my 1500 square house and that is enough.


I agree! My house has a furnace that's at least 2 sizes too big.
 
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
……...I just can't figure out how to get to 6 thousand bucks on a $2700- unit chop and drop reinstall ( well Im 1/2 Scottish afterall) Does the Company really need to take 50% markup over wholesale to keep the fleet going?


Even the $2700 wholesale price on the equipment seems high to me. The machinery is just not that complicated, is it?

I recently had the arborist come out to do a simple job on a spruce tree that was too high for me to work on. He was upfront about the cost: $5 for labor, and $60 for overhead. He told me he needs to charge $450 on a job to break even, because he has a fleet of equipment to maintain, employee health insurance, fuel costs, etc.
 
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We've covered this ground before (JHRZ2 must be away from his computer or he'd have chimed in for sure) but people need to remember that the only thing that dictates the price of something is the price people are willing to pay for it. It quite simply does not matter how much the parts are, how much the person doing the work gets paid, how much profit you think is "reasonable" for the seller. The simplest example of this was brought up in an old thread - if you want to rent out a hotel for a wedding, they charge you a whole lot more for a Saturday wedding in June than they would for a Friday evening wedding in February. Same space, same service, much different cost. Want your AC replaced in the middle of July? Be prepared to pay a lot more than you would in February.

jeff
 
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
[/quote] The rheem using an all aluminum evap coil? I though they rigorously test them. Could be acid buildup from improper charging? Maybe corsion issues from AL pipe to Cu braze?


My only complaint with Ruud/Rheem is that they're just low-end all around. If noise isn't a concern, they're actually OK and last well enough apart from some known problems with the newer aluminum evap core units as mentioned. But the cabinets, assembly, etc. are all low-cost sorta "contractor grade" and it doesn't make for a quiet unit, indoors or out. The better Trane and Lennox (my preference) units are darn near silent. Even the outdoor units- the Dave Lennox Signature outdoor units could be just about be running your living room and not bother you! But you do pay for it.
 
I just got a Nordyne furnace/air condx / heat pump system installed yesterday for $5,500. Nordyne makes Tappan, Westinghouse, Broan, Maytag and several others. It's the same "stuff" ...different badges.
YEPPPP $5,500 got me a heat pump set up...new wiring and boxes, copper tubing runs,new thermostat...complete A to Z.
Took 3 men to remove old system/ install new system :total time 6hrs.
My piggy bank is empty now....I hear an echo when I shake it....I pout.
 
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