Teflon

[Nate1979]

Originally Posted By: SnowDrifter
Why not? You can measure the amount of metal that appears in a given location and infer wear from that


When are people going to figure out that a UOA doesn't directly measure wear? Just because they are wear metals (meaning they are in your oil because of wear) doesn't mean the ppm correlated directly to a wear rate.

 

[philipp10]

I know very little about UOA's but I too was questioning the "metals" numbers as they are usually SO low. I don't know how "PPM" (parts per million) relate to how long my motor will last. And like you said, any large particles are either filtered out or are not seen by the analyzer.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: SnowDrifter
Why not? You can measure the amount of metal that appears in a given location and infer wear from that


You'd have to tear an engine down to determine that. You also have measurements before and after to compare them to. Bottom line is a UOA is not going to tell very little to nothing about engine wear.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: SnowDrifter
Why not? You can measure the amount of metal that appears in a given location and infer wear from that


You'd have to tear an engine down to determine that. You also have measurements before and after to compare them to. Bottom line is a UOA is not going to tell very little to nothing about engine wear.


And may even indicate things that are "false positives".

One UOA does not a trend indicate...

 

[Shannow]

Three data points here for engine oils, and a few more for gear oils.

One a 1975 Renault R16 that was the family car that I grew up with, and was maintaining though the '80s. Was stating to use (some) oil, and in Oz, a quart every 5,000km (3,000 miles) was something to worry about. A product, mailorder, called PMT (Permanent Motor Treatment), before a trip reduced oil consumption to near zero for another 100,000km.

An XB ford Falcon, 250ci 6 at the garage I worked at in gap year used buckets of oil and blew blue smoke... treatment of Nulon E10 (worn engine) treatment reduced consumption to reasonable levels, and drastically reduced blue smoke on start-up.

A Holden Ute that I had with 253c.i V-8 had absolutely zero change on anything with Slick50.

Gearbox, have tried a Nulon teflon additive over the years, and always had positive results with shifting.

Currently have their gear additive in the diff of the Caprice.

 

[fdcg27]

There may be many problems with some Chrysler products of this vintage, but neither of the two four cylinder engines available in the 1999 Breeze are among them.
Either of these engines will run for a good long while with no more than routine maintenance.
Adding anything to the oil may be counterproductive and is certainly a waste of funds.
Both the Breeze and the companion Dodge Stratus of this vintage are easily found in decent condition for EOL beater prices.
One of these would no doubt make a good and solid beater daily driver, probably better than the sort of ragged out Accord or Camry that Breeze or Stratus money would buy you.
We have a woman at work who owns a Stratus of this vintage that she's driven for some years now. She bought it after she literally blew up her Contour because it was what she could afford.
I'd tell you the story of how she blew the Contour up, but nobody would believe it.
Anyway, the Stratus has served her well, even given that her knowledge of things mechanical is probably on a par with her knowledge of cosmology.

 

[gcb]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
I couldn't find the original press release, but this is interesting where it shows the scammer Tufoil was part of the issue (and it does appear to contain most or all of the original statement by Du Pont:

http://openjurist.org/814/f2d/775/flotech-inc-v-ei-du-pont-nemours-and-company

It's amazing to me that a company had to go to court to defend themselves against a suit about the stated uses for their own product

Originally Posted By: HerrStig
Dupont has stated that the stuff has no place in an engine.



i cannot believe how crazy law is. the defense from DuPont was to, based on some crazy precedent, prove that the press release was NOT based on facts but on unfounded opinion?!?

"The district court determined that the press release was not defamatory because its contents constituted opinion rather than fact."

this is insane on so many levels... and we will never know the data Dupont had

 

[MolaKule]

This crud still seems to pop up occasionally.

There was a 1978 patent that listed a PTFE powder in a carrier oil as an emulsion.

Just because a patent granted for a novel chemical mix a doesn't mean it has any real world efficacy.

There is no valid scientific proof this stuff works as a friction modifier or anti-wear additive in an engine.

It does make a decent grease thickener.

Grease Technology Part Two

 

[CapitalTruck]

Originally Posted By: jacky
slick 50 hm motor treatment
i have also used duralube fuel system cleaner
and i also like slick 50 spray on lubricant for door hinges etc..
when i change my tranny fluid i may use a slick 50 additive
i know opinions on here regarding slick50 but i have used their products since around 1992 and my engines have lasted over 200k
i feel that if their product wasnt any good they would not have been in business for so many years

Just like cigarette manufacturers!

 

[Camprunner]

I have used Tufoil for years with great results I'm not sure how much Teflon is in Tufoil? When I called them last year they told me Tufoil has not changed there formula for many years so whatever that means? I do know the Teflon that is in Tufoil is negative charged so it will not clump together. I did help tear down a Tufoil run engine that came from a company truck that was totaled in a collision. The chevy 350 V8 had 225,000 miles on it and it looked fantastic with no wear that we could notice with the eye. Also no clumped Teflon any place we could see in the engine. We purchased it from the insurance company for parts and one of my employees wanted the engine block to build a 383 stroker out of it. Anyway I don't know if Tufoil has any big effects on my engines but I put real high millage on all of them and I do get better millage when I use it even if just a little.

 

[jk_636]

Originally Posted By: Camprunner
I have used Tufoil for years with great results I'm not sure how much Teflon is in Tufoil? When I called them last year they told me Tufoil has not changed there formula for many years so whatever that means? I do know the Teflon that is in Tufoil is negative charged so it will not clump together. I did help tear down a Tufoil run engine that came from a company truck that was totaled in a collision. The chevy 350 V8 had 225,000 miles on it and it looked fantastic with no wear that we could notice with the eye. Also no clumped Teflon any place we could see in the engine. We purchased it from the insurance company for parts and one of my employees wanted the engine block to build a 383 stroker out of it. Anyway I don't know if Tufoil has any big effects on my engines but I put real high millage on all of them and I do get better millage when I use it even if just a little.


I too have heard good things about Tufoil. I am thinking about adding some to my crankcase on the next oil change!

 

[Mystic]

I used Tufoil a long time ago in a Toyota Corolla station wagon car I had bought used. I can't remember now-I think it was a 1982 Toyota. The engine ran good but chattered a little at startup. I had heard about Tufoil and there was a positive article in Popular Mechanics Magazine. So I used Tufoil for a while and it did seem to help reduce the noise at startup.

But after I started to hear a lot of negative stuff about using PTFE in an engine I stopped using Tufoil.

Tufoil is thick stuff, or at least it used to be unless they had changed it. It never really occurred to me that maybe if I had just used a thicker oil (in the summertime) I might have achieved the same results.

I should add I guess that in those days and with that car model a thicker oil (like a 20W50) was allowed.

 

[jk_636]

You have to consider the source(s). I have always had great luck with MMO. Many here denounce it as snake oil. I LOVE Royal Purple. Most here denounce it as a boutique oil. My oil filter of choice is Purolator and goodness gracious is that ever an uphill battle!!

Long story short, if it works for you, go for it. If someone was not sure about a product, I would tell people to do their homework (more than just listening to one sided opinions on BITOG!)

 

[Clevy]

How big are these Teflon particles and if large enough to be filtered wouldn't this stuff just load up the oil filter.

Teflon is great stuff however you can't just pour it into an engine and expect it to coat everything like a frying pan.
There is a method in which Teflon is applied to a surface and I seriously doubt an internal combustion engine is adhering to this method in any way shape or form.
I just can't see Teflon being properly applied and thereby creating any benefit unless the parts were treated prior to installation and by the looks of my frying pans it's not a super durable surface finish.
Unless of course you use plastic utensils. Any plastic parts inside an engine.

 

[HerrStig]

Originally Posted By: Camprunner
I have used Tufoil for years with great results I'm not sure how much Teflon is in Tufoil? When I called them last year they told me Tufoil has not changed there formula for many years so whatever that means? I do know the Teflon that is in Tufoil is negative charged so it will not clump together. I did help tear down a Tufoil run engine that came from a company truck that was totaled in a collision. The chevy 350 V8 had 225,000 miles on it and it looked fantastic with no wear that we could notice with the eye. Also no clumped Teflon any place we could see in the engine. We purchased it from the insurance company for parts and one of my employees wanted the engine block to build a 383 stroker out of it. Anyway I don't know if Tufoil has any big effects on my engines but I put real high millage on all of them and I do get better millage when I use it even if just a little.
The Tuffwhatever was all grabbed by the filter. You can't put a "negative charge" on a material and expect it to stay that way except, perhaps in a "perfect" vacuum. Certainly not in motoroil.

 

[HerrStig]

The Fram boys once sold an oil filter line which had a blob of PTFE inside the canister to "slowly add" PTFE to the oil. My understand is the engineers weren't the biggest fans of the idea.

 

[Camprunner]

Originally Posted By: HerrStig
Originally Posted By: Camprunner
I have used Tufoil for years with great results I'm not sure how much Teflon is in Tufoil? When I called them last year they told me Tufoil has not changed there formula for many years so whatever that means? I do know the Teflon that is in Tufoil is negative charged so it will not clump together. I did help tear down a Tufoil run engine that came from a company truck that was totaled in a collision. The chevy 350 V8 had 225,000 miles on it and it looked fantastic with no wear that we could notice with the eye. Also no clumped Teflon any place we could see in the engine. We purchased it from the insurance company for parts and one of my employees wanted the engine block to build a 383 stroker out of it. Anyway I don't know if Tufoil has any big effects on my engines but I put real high millage on all of them and I do get better millage when I use it even if just a little.
The Tuffwhatever was all grabbed by the filter. You can't put a "negative charge" on a material and expect it to stay that way except, perhaps in a "perfect" vacuum. Certainly not in motoroil.


Actually the Teflon that Tufoil uses is only .05 to no larger than .5 in size that flows through an oil filter like going through a cave. I have cut open roughly 40 oil filters over the years running Tufoil and I have never seen any evidence of Teflon clumps or any evidence of anything different from running regular oil without Tifoil.

 

[HerrStig]

Originally Posted By: Camprunner
Originally Posted By: HerrStig
Originally Posted By: Camprunner
I have used Tufoil for years with great results I'm not sure how much Teflon is in Tufoil? When I called them last year they told me Tufoil has not changed there formula for many years so whatever that means? I do know the Teflon that is in Tufoil is negative charged so it will not clump together. I did help tear down a Tufoil run engine that came from a company truck that was totaled in a collision. The chevy 350 V8 had 225,000 miles on it and it looked fantastic with no wear that we could notice with the eye. Also no clumped Teflon any place we could see in the engine. We purchased it from the insurance company for parts and one of my employees wanted the engine block to build a 383 stroker out of it. Anyway I don't know if Tufoil has any big effects on my engines but I put real high millage on all of them and I do get better millage when I use it even if just a little.
The Tuffwhatever was all grabbed by the filter. You can't put a "negative charge" on a material and expect it to stay that way except, perhaps in a "perfect" vacuum. Certainly not in motoroil.


Actually the Teflon that Tufoil uses is only .05 to no larger than .5 in size that flows through an oil filter like going through a cave. I have cut open roughly 40 oil filters over the years running Tufoil and I have never seen any evidence of Teflon clumps or any evidence of anything different from running regular oil without Tifoil.
Dupont will not allow the use of the Teflon name for engine oil treatments.

 

[Camprunner]

That's true Tufoil calls it PTFE my bad

 

[jk_636]

Originally Posted By: HerrStig
Originally Posted By: Camprunner
Originally Posted By: HerrStig
Originally Posted By: Camprunner
I have used Tufoil for years with great results I'm not sure how much Teflon is in Tufoil? When I called them last year they told me Tufoil has not changed there formula for many years so whatever that means? I do know the Teflon that is in Tufoil is negative charged so it will not clump together. I did help tear down a Tufoil run engine that came from a company truck that was totaled in a collision. The chevy 350 V8 had 225,000 miles on it and it looked fantastic with no wear that we could notice with the eye. Also no clumped Teflon any place we could see in the engine. We purchased it from the insurance company for parts and one of my employees wanted the engine block to build a 383 stroker out of it. Anyway I don't know if Tufoil has any big effects on my engines but I put real high millage on all of them and I do get better millage when I use it even if just a little.
The Tuffwhatever was all grabbed by the filter. You can't put a "negative charge" on a material and expect it to stay that way except, perhaps in a "perfect" vacuum. Certainly not in motoroil.


Actually the Teflon that Tufoil uses is only .05 to no larger than .5 in size that flows through an oil filter like going through a cave. I have cut open roughly 40 oil filters over the years running Tufoil and I have never seen any evidence of Teflon clumps or any evidence of anything different from running regular oil without Tifoil.
Dupont will not allow the use of the Teflon name for engine oil treatments.


Who cares what you call it. It is all the same. Just like generic vs. trade drugs. The fact that DuPont has no interest in having their trademarked product in motor oil does not mean it is harmful or doesn't work.