2015 500 exc

[Mackelroy]

800 mile/15 hours on oil. 2000 mile on unit.

Its on a light leaded diet, so lead is normal. Oil seems to hold up okay, and jetting seems okay.

 

[userfriendly]

The additive package looks like automotive SN for SAE 40 and above,
with phosphorous at 911 and zinc at 1083.
An old school CI-4 plus, or CH/SM 15W40 such as Delo 400 will have an
additive package that is 40% higher, and wet clutch compatible.

Has anyone thought of using Caterpillar TO-4+ oils in motorcycles?
They are basically friction modified engine oils with very tough
qualification standards.

 

[userfriendly]

Or should I say friction enhanced engine oils.

UOAs will not read the large particles in the oil,
only the small ones.
How much additive loss will take place in 15 hours
of operation? Or oil ageing?
Very little or none at all.
But, with only 1,200 ml of oil, how much clutch material
and transmission milling, too big to read is in the sample?

A liter of oil for every 10 hours of riding is about my limit.

Here is a test you can do.

Save all of your used motorcycle oil in a bucket and let it
sit for 6 months in a warm place.
In the sun preferably.
Pour off the top and look what has settled to the bottom.

Now, don't believe everything the UOA is telling you.

 

[alarmguy]

Well, cant comment on the results since I never owned a dirt bike but can say thanks for posting the UOA as for lack of better words Im kind of, sort of a fan of Valvoline fluids and have not seen a current, that I remember UOA on their synthetic ... oops!

Which Synthetic is it? I was hoping the MC oil or is it another?

I think Valvoline (all types) is one of the most underrated oils on the market in the forums.

 

[sunruh]

ya cant really say it was ridden as an offroad bike with a 53.3mph average!
proved by the silicon of 7

nickel of 2 is interesting as is magnesium 11

there was more than a trace of fuel for that flash to be only 385
and showed up in the 40wt susvis.

with lead at only 170 in 2k mi, you are not using much that for sure. c12?

a pretty decent uoa for a that many miles ridden as a supermotard

 

[Mackelroy]

Originally Posted By: sunruh
ya cant really say it was ridden as an offroad bike with a 53.3mph average!

with lead at only 170 in 2k mi, you are not using much that for sure. c12?

a pretty decent uoa for a that many miles ridden as a supermotard



that was 170 ppm in 800 miles, only run a cup or two per tank. Yeah c12

The question is, does it break in like a regular street motor about the 8,000 mile range or is this as good as it gets?

Probably less than 3 miles worth of jumps and trails on that run.

 

[Mackelroy]

I can say this, normally on my 4 stroke street motors, I run a full 300 mile on the original oil change, before dumping , and the first one usually isn't too bad. I did the ktm at 50 miles, and its one of the worst dumps Id seen, just nasty dirty, full of sludgy looking dirt.

next dump was 280 miles later( a little better), and a couple dumps later as the time frame progressed, I made it to the 800 mile mark on a change . So there were 4 dumps before this 800 mile run in its 2000 mile life.

This bike is hard on oil, by mc standards imo or else you'd be looking at a 2500 mile run , judging this report 800 ,1000 mile interval is about it.

The good news it uses no oil, im picky about that.

 

[Mackelroy]

Originally Posted By: alarmguy


Which Synthetic is it? I was hoping the MC oil or is it another?

I think Valvoline (all types) is one of the most underrated oils on the market in the forums.


its the 20w50 motorcycle synthetic,,,, bike holds 1.6 quart

Ive also ran the dino 20w50 mc oil, Im debating which I like, they are really close in the numbers, plus the dino is near half the price.

 

[alarmguy]

Thanks, my last bike (you may know, Vstar 1300) I was a big fan of the Valvoline Conventional 20/50. I ended up using that oil exclusively after years of toying around with oils in that bike and the bike before it. I ran a UOA on it back in 2012 and its in this forum.

Back to my new Road King, still undecided.
Im all over the place, from what I just posted above I am starting to seriously consider the Valvoline Conv 20/50, then I look at your UOA and see its not all that different from the SYN 3 UOA except the Mag and Cal so that has me thinking then to Castrol Activia semi at $5. a qt to Cheap C Rated Mystic.
I honestly think in my case it really doesnt matter too much but Im just having fun with it. For some reason, maybe just because I am that 5% that seem to go off in other directions, Im just not a big fan of synthetics as some others are in big old design V-TWIN engines.
Its more the oil add pack and design then the type of oil used syn or conv. Unless of course one goes long term, I change every 3000 or so, most times less.

 

[alarmguy]

Originally Posted By: used_0il
The additive package looks like automotive SN for SAE 40 and above,
with phosphorous at 911 and zinc at 1083.
An old school CI-4 plus, or CH/SM 15W40 such as Delo 400 will have an
additive package that is 40% higher, and wet clutch compatible.

Has anyone thought of using Caterpillar TO-4+ oils in motorcycles?
They are basically friction modified engine oils with very tough
qualification standards.



You have to remember, Delo is a 15/40, the UOA above is 20/50. Also by "Old School" you cant buy CI-4 oils anymore. Not in Delo. I used the Delo once back in 2013, as far as WET Clutch it made me a little nervous, my clutch didnt slip but it felt almost to smooth Compared to the nice bite of the Valvoline MC oil.
Here is the Delo UOA, interesting the Column on the right is the Valvoline MC 20/50 I loved the way the bike shifted with the Valvoline, not that the Delo was bad. Myabe felt more notchy, still, if it was a 20/50 would try it again.
I also dont believe we can look at the VERY small tested and listed components of these oils and make a decision on which one will be better at wear. There is a lot more going on in these oils, then what a very limited lab test reveals.

Here is the Delo 15/40 LE400 UOA compared to the Valvoline MC 20/50

The Valvoline 20/50 did much better at wear considering the short run of the Delo but in all fairness, the Delo was used as my "winter oil" limited riding in colder weather. Again kind of irrelevant testing 2 oils in two different situations but the Valvoline oils I think are a bargain compared to WAY more expensive boutique oils (except Amsoil which excels) showing far worse wear numbers. Except for Amsoil, which I never used, I dont believe in those other "boutiques" but doesnt matter, we use what works for us and makes us feel good.

 

[sunruh]

Originally Posted By: Mackelroy
Originally Posted By: sunruh
ya cant really say it was ridden as an offroad bike with a 53.3mph average!

with lead at only 170 in 2k mi, you are not using much that for sure. c12?

a pretty decent uoa for a that many miles ridden as a supermotard



that was 170 ppm in 800 miles, only run a cup or two per tank. Yeah c12

The question is, does it break in like a regular street motor about the 8,000 mile range or is this as good as it gets?

Probably less than 3 miles worth of jumps and trails on that run.



if i was gonna throwup a guess, yep, very close to as good as it gets.

you could do another 800 mile run uoa, but i dont think you need to prove anything more with the oil you used. i would only do a uoa on another oil.
the question is: why even bother?

 

[Mackelroy]

why even bother?

Your right I gained enough info off this run to know, its functional.

 

[Mackelroy]

AlarmGuy, yes I came across your uoa on the vstar but the uoa was not there, picture gone?

 

[alarmguy]

Originally Posted By: Mackelroy
AlarmGuy, yes I came across your uoa on the vstar but the uoa was not there, picture gone?


Ah...yes the UOA on the Valvoline 20/50 posted back then, link went bad because of something I did but this is one of the few forums you cant go an edit your post after, like 10 minutes!
Anyway, the link above show both the Delo and Valvoline ... but if your curious here is a new link to just the valvoline, keep in mind the date now... not sure if anything changed in the ad pack.
I am seriously thinking of using it on the next change for my Road King but time will tell.

Valvoline MC 20/50 UOA

 

[Mackelroy]

Judging by the zinc/phos and calcium, looks to be the same oil.

I cant say exactly whats the difference between present dino 20w50 and the syn, they are really very close by the numbers, flash, vis, ect.

They both have the similar smell, so I know they aren't to far apart. Both smell like Plastique, with the syn being slighty stronger in that regard, and not by much

 

[Mackelroy]

Sunruh, what were you typically seeing silicon wise on your 250 and are you running biodegradable airfilter oil and typically what filter?

Id never ran biodegradable airfilter oil, but it came stock on the KTM. I kept hearing people complain about over oil filters as oil running out of the airbox. I eventually found the real issue is the biodgradable stuff is in a constant state of break down, and nothing to do with over oiling.

I ditched that stuff immediately, for traditional Non biodegradable Belray, solved that issue.

 

[sunruh]

i have used no-toil for years and years and have almost constantly used nothing but moose filters. and i also run a filter-filter

while the non-bio filter oils are great, i hate the cleanup mess.

 

[Mackelroy]

I was actually doing a lot of rain riding, and had water dropplets inside the filter, and the moisture aided the breakdown with drippage of the filter oil.

Belray stopped all of it.

my technique for non biodegradable, hit the filter with some stale gas to break down the oil, quickly dump into a bucket of dish soap, then go inside to the sink. That aides with the messy part, to be not so messy.

Belray is very tacky, no grease necessary, That is the real mess avoidance.

 

[sunruh]

that gas will eat the filter glue in a hurry

use mineral spirits (about a 1qt) in a 1gal steel paint bucket (you can get at HD or lowes).

filter rim grease is for the "lesser informed" and never needed
IF (thats a big if) the filter cage actually does it job correctly.

 

[Mackelroy]

I don't leave the gas on but just for a second then quickly into the bucket of dish soap, ive only ruined one filter, since the 70's and that was when I used Drum cleaner, destroyed that filter instantly , mainly the glue.

How ever I use stale gas, its less potent, for break down issue, I bought some a couple months ago for filter cleaning , it should be ripening nicely> G

I noticed twin air says their filters and glue are fuel resistant (which is my oem), but Ive used them along with other oem along the way, without issue. Had my cr 500 for 5 years, and I don't recall wearing out a filter. Usually I keep the oem and buy a twin air, to keep one clean at all times.

Your right, as long as the filter cage has a good mechanical seal, tacky airfilter oil is more than adequate. Although there are filters that come with grease grooves Ive never bought them. Oem or twin air is all Ive ever ran.