Ahh I agree.. I did mention hot or very cold play a part in the battery life. But usage is really a big factor as well. I just got a new battery for my car because it had at least 70k miles plus worth of starts and usage.. Maybe 80k.previous owner had replaced sorry Nissan factory battery. Which I have learned really are not very good quality.
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Abrupt Battery Failure, No Warning.
- Thread starter George7941
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George7941
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That's it! A new addition to my automotive maintenance regime - replace batteries when they get to six years of age.
This is in addition to coolant replacement every five years, brake fluid flushes every couple of years, disc brake service every six months (salt belt), Krown annually (salt belt) etc, etc.
It is just not worth the the risk of being stranded if the battery fails without warning. On Good Friday I was lucky that the battery failed at my place of work where I could pull off a battery from another vehicle. There were numerous other stops I made on that day where the failure of the battery would have cost me a lot in time and expense. There were no stores open on that day where I could pick up a replacement battery.
This is in addition to coolant replacement every five years, brake fluid flushes every couple of years, disc brake service every six months (salt belt), Krown annually (salt belt) etc, etc.
It is just not worth the the risk of being stranded if the battery fails without warning. On Good Friday I was lucky that the battery failed at my place of work where I could pull off a battery from another vehicle. There were numerous other stops I made on that day where the failure of the battery would have cost me a lot in time and expense. There were no stores open on that day where I could pick up a replacement battery.
Originally Posted By: George7941
On Friday I went to a number of places and, when I stopped at my place of work, it would not crank. The battery would sometimes power up the headlights and sometimes it was too weak to do so, the headlight relay would just chatter. The battery was completely normal prior to this and I had absolutely no reason to suspect battery malfunction.
With lights on the failed battery voltage would drop to 5V and keep falling and, as soon as the lights were turned off, the voltage would climb right back to 12.5V. I could also hear bubbling inside the battery. What kind of failure would this be on a seven year old battery? I don't think it is a short circuit since the voltage would come back to normal with no load. BTW, the failed battery tested at 380 CCA.
Ahh, this brings back memories (nightmares too) from my days at Globe Union (Johnson Controls) for their brands and all the failure analysis I had to do.
Now this experience is about 35 years old but I don’t believe the physics and basic construction of a wet celled battery has changed too since I left that industry much even if technology has changed everything else about it.
Barring manufacturing defects, actual abuse, contamination and all operation specific stuff- there are basically 4 top level failure modes of the wet cell battery.
Electrolyte imbalance- That old 65:35 ratio-this is probably the most common failure of all but it makes batteries go weak over time usually.
Hard Calcification of the plates – during the charging cycle these plates leach antimony, calcium and whatever other things (all that white looking stuff), over time this reduced and when a plate loses too much surface area it gets weak and then dies ( the textbook “weak cell”)
Degradation of the insulators- if they crack, break or anything that allows the plates to get too close or touch, its game over right then and there (the textbook "dead cell")
Intercell straps and welds- These join all the plates and terminals. They both break outright or crack and “just touch”.
The “textbook” failure of a clean break is a battery where ( pulling the caps and actually putting probes in to check individual cell voltage) each cell reads somewhere close to the standard 2.1 VDC per cell ( for a 12V battery 100% voltage would be 12.6) but the batteries OCV is less than the cumulative value of the cells tested.
The “textbook” failure of a crack that is “touching” is that all voltage checks appear good but the minute the battery loads the crack either fully separates or arcs. This goes to virtually zero flow instantly when we throw the old carbon pile load tester on it. This almost always creates a small arc and can boil the electrolyte (and emit that awful egg smell)
Everything you describe (the voltage climbing that much after the load was removed, the bubbling and it holding a piece of a load then dropping off) leads me to believe you had an Intercell crack.
After 7 years though, can’t complain about that.
On Friday I went to a number of places and, when I stopped at my place of work, it would not crank. The battery would sometimes power up the headlights and sometimes it was too weak to do so, the headlight relay would just chatter. The battery was completely normal prior to this and I had absolutely no reason to suspect battery malfunction.
With lights on the failed battery voltage would drop to 5V and keep falling and, as soon as the lights were turned off, the voltage would climb right back to 12.5V. I could also hear bubbling inside the battery. What kind of failure would this be on a seven year old battery? I don't think it is a short circuit since the voltage would come back to normal with no load. BTW, the failed battery tested at 380 CCA.
Ahh, this brings back memories (nightmares too) from my days at Globe Union (Johnson Controls) for their brands and all the failure analysis I had to do.
Now this experience is about 35 years old but I don’t believe the physics and basic construction of a wet celled battery has changed too since I left that industry much even if technology has changed everything else about it.
Barring manufacturing defects, actual abuse, contamination and all operation specific stuff- there are basically 4 top level failure modes of the wet cell battery.
Electrolyte imbalance- That old 65:35 ratio-this is probably the most common failure of all but it makes batteries go weak over time usually.
Hard Calcification of the plates – during the charging cycle these plates leach antimony, calcium and whatever other things (all that white looking stuff), over time this reduced and when a plate loses too much surface area it gets weak and then dies ( the textbook “weak cell”)
Degradation of the insulators- if they crack, break or anything that allows the plates to get too close or touch, its game over right then and there (the textbook "dead cell")
Intercell straps and welds- These join all the plates and terminals. They both break outright or crack and “just touch”.
The “textbook” failure of a clean break is a battery where ( pulling the caps and actually putting probes in to check individual cell voltage) each cell reads somewhere close to the standard 2.1 VDC per cell ( for a 12V battery 100% voltage would be 12.6) but the batteries OCV is less than the cumulative value of the cells tested.
The “textbook” failure of a crack that is “touching” is that all voltage checks appear good but the minute the battery loads the crack either fully separates or arcs. This goes to virtually zero flow instantly when we throw the old carbon pile load tester on it. This almost always creates a small arc and can boil the electrolyte (and emit that awful egg smell)
Everything you describe (the voltage climbing that much after the load was removed, the bubbling and it holding a piece of a load then dropping off) leads me to believe you had an Intercell crack.
After 7 years though, can’t complain about that.
George7941
Thread starter
Thanks for the detailed explanation. It furthered my understanding of batteries.
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