China buying Pirelli

[Evanson]

Originally Posted By: krzyss
Originally Posted By: Evanson
They don't have people who deny the problem nor corporations that have so much power they shape regulations and get away with poor practices.


It does not get any bigger than companies owned by government. And biggest of them all are companies owned by military or secret police.

Krzys


Are you talking about China or the US now?

China has used capitalism to become an economic powerhouse. The government is definitely involved with infrastructure decisions but what makes it work is the private profit motive.

Otherwise you wouldn't have this outcome:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_the_number_of_US_dollar_billionaires

 

[fredfactory]

Originally Posted By: c502cid

To bash them for being Chinese is ignorant. Our own backyard, and .....


Its not about "being Chinese", its my experience with bad poor quality Chinese products and the human rights violations over there. Not complicated.

 

[rhhsiao]

Originally Posted By: Trav
Originally Posted By: jcwit
To those who think they neither buy or own Chinese merchandise are either lying to others or to themselves.

Hey don't justify your buying habits by accusing others of buying their garbage and claiming they are lying.
Their products can be avoided. I go out of my way to avoid anything and everything they make. No my PC is not made in China, neither is my TV, my stove/cook top, fridge and certainly not my clothes.
The rule in my house is check the COO and if its China it stays out. Its that simple.
If i cant get a first world equivalent i go without or in the case of the iphone go back to old Finnish made Nokia. The next phone will be a US made Motorola.

A global economy can only really exist on a level playing field. IMHO anyone loving China and their people so much should go there and stay there.
The funny thing is these people who talk about workers rights, higher pay and everyone should have a fair shot and god knows what other garbage are the first ones running to Walmart and Horror Freight to by cheap junk from China. Hypocrites.



Right, because a COO label is 100% complete in tracking production sources. You obviously use modern electronics. Something like 95% of all rare Earth metals, which are in computers, televisions, and cell phones, are produced in China. Ever consume garlic? China produces >2/3 of total global output and the US produces something like <2% of China's output. Not a garlic lover? Do you eat chicken or Alaskan salmon? US companies ship a large amount of those proteins to be processed in China and don't need to be labeled as such.

 

[demarpaint]

I never cared for their tires so I wouldn't have owned them either way.

 

[tenderloin]

No reason to buy most foods from China..even garlic.

CR

 

[Falcon_LS]

The P6 Four Seasons I had stock on my '03 and '07 Grand Marquis was average at best, but the Scorpion STR and Scorpion Verde has been fantastic. Same for the P7. Just hope the quality doesn't drop, and they don't turn a premium brand into an economy line.

 

[Win]

Anything is for sale if the price is right. Apparently, no one else really wanted it, or they would have bought it.

 

[PandaBear]

There are knockoffs in China, but do they ONLY sell knockoffs? Seriously?

The way I see it is they do have a lot of catch up to do in many industries, not just because they don't have the know how but they don't have patents that established nations and Western / Japanese companies have. You can make the products in high quality if you want to pay for it, and they can build it if they got the licensing right to use the existing patents.

This is one of the reason Chinese bought dying companies like Volvo, license nuclear power plant designs, buy out rights to make high speed rails, and spend a lot of money in designing next generation stuff that won't hit the market for another 10 years (i.e. Huawei is about to dominate a lot of networking gear market because Europe isn't willing to spend money on R&D at a loss like the Chinese and Korean do).

I see lots of good and bad products made in all nations, but I see in particular a massive amount of cheap junks that sell well in American box stores, not just form China but from US / Mexico, etc. Most of them are from US companies sourcing them too. I personally think this has to do with American corp like quick profit at the expense of their long term reputation / profits, and American comsumers willing to accept lower quality for cost reduction.

Apple makes iPhone in China and it is high quality, but they don't just write a check and give the shipping addressing, they send hundreds of engineers to factories to make sure things are done right.

 

[PandaBear]

Originally Posted By: Trav
If i cant get a first world equivalent i go without or in the case of the iphone go back to old Finnish made Nokia. The next phone will be a US made Motorola.



I hate to tell you, Lenovo bought Motorola, it is Chinese now. You can thank the American corporate executive for chopping that company apart instead of fixing it.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: PandaBear

I see lots of good and bad products made in all nations, but I see in particular a massive amount of cheap junks that sell well in American box stores, not just form China but from US / Mexico, etc. Most of them are from US companies sourcing them too. I personally think this has to do with American corp like quick profit at the expense of their long term reputation / profits, and American comsumers willing to accept lower quality for cost reduction.

Apple makes iPhone in China and it is high quality, but they don't just write a check and give the shipping addressing, they send hundreds of engineers to factories to make sure things are done right.


VERY true. Cisco spent an obscene amount of time and money to ENSURE QC on their products.

The issue Cisco had was IP piracy however, and that's a real problem. The quality was fine (when properly supervised) but the IP thing, once that happens....

But I think that's the cost of outsourcing. You do it to save money (and pad the bottom line) but it only pans out as well as you are willing to invest in it. For the companies that make the effort, there is no discernible difference in quality. For those that don't, well, the results speak for themselves.

The issue is the North American consumer who expects to get top of the line quality for their bottom dollar. It doesn't work that way. And then they [censored] and moan about the junk they buy at Walmart and how it isn't as good as things were back in the "good old days" but they continue the consumption process anyway, reinforcing the fact that this model; that cheapening a product to pad the bottom line, works. People will buy junk. They might whine and complain about it but they still buy it.

 

[y_p_w]

Originally Posted By: PandaBear
There are knockoffs in China, but do they ONLY sell knockoffs? Seriously?

The way I see it is they do have a lot of catch up to do in many industries, not just because they don't have the know how but they don't have patents that established nations and Western / Japanese companies have. You can make the products in high quality if you want to pay for it, and they can build it if they got the licensing right to use the existing patents.

This is one of the reason Chinese bought dying companies like Volvo, license nuclear power plant designs, buy out rights to make high speed rails, and spend a lot of money in designing next generation stuff that won't hit the market for another 10 years (i.e. Huawei is about to dominate a lot of networking gear market because Europe isn't willing to spend money on R&D at a loss like the Chinese and Korean do).

I see lots of good and bad products made in all nations, but I see in particular a massive amount of cheap junks that sell well in American box stores, not just form China but from US / Mexico, etc. Most of them are from US companies sourcing them too. I personally think this has to do with American corp like quick profit at the expense of their long term reputation / profits, and American comsumers willing to accept lower quality for cost reduction.

Apple makes iPhone in China and it is high quality, but they don't just write a check and give the shipping addressing, they send hundreds of engineers to factories to make sure things are done right.

Well - they probably do send a few people over, but they generally leave it to the contractor to make sure things are done right. And these contract companies (Foxconn, Quanta, Pegatron) aren't mainland Chinese, but from Taiwan where they have taken QC seriously for decades.

 

[Silverado12]

Originally Posted By: asand1
Originally Posted By: NHGUY
The Chinese wont be happy until they own everything.I think they believe they can bankrupt the world by owning all of it (they can,we owe them trillions).Why would anyone sell to them? Do they not have any pride?


Our own fault, funding methadone clinics and housing the lazy for 5 generations. We won't manufacture anything because of the greenies, but we'll let 3rd world countries do it for us? The financial state of our country is our own doing thanks to the liberal mindedness of the populace.

Its not China's fault that we've contracted out for them to do our dirty work.

We need to stop being a welfare state, start manufacturing and exporting WITHOUT PAYING UNION WAGES, throw out SOME environmental policies, and stop importing every kind of electronic device we use.

We need to stop pushing our kids into 4 year college to get a degree in Greek philosophy, just to go to work at Taco Bell and pay off their debts. Instead push your kids into a vocational/2 year school to learn engineering, nursing, automotive technology, etc..

Quit blaming China and look in a mirror (not just OP, but nationally).


As a former union member I resent what you said. Trade policies are what sent jobs overseas and the corruption of our system caused this. Basically, you have multi-national companies bribing those in power to create policy to make them rich(er). Buy American, people. When it's your job you'll sing a different tune.

 

[Win]

Originally Posted By: PandaBear
Originally Posted By: Trav
If i cant get a first world equivalent i go without or in the case of the iphone go back to old Finnish made Nokia. The next phone will be a US made Motorola.



I hate to tell you, Lenovo bought Motorola, it is Chinese now. You can thank the American corporate executive for chopping that company apart instead of fixing it.


Motorola has been outsourcing for a long, long, time. I bought an HT1250 back in 1991, because I wanted a good quality, American made, handie talkie that could double as a business band and ham radio. Paid $800 plus in 1991 dollars, a good chunk of change, about 3X what a top quality Japanese radio cost at the time. When I got it, it was made in Malaysia. At least it's been a high quality product, I still use it today.

The last bunch of Nokia flip phones I bought were made in Mexico. The last Lumia I bought was made .. wait for it ... in China.

Now I just get my cell phones direct from China off Ebay. Why pay dollars to a middle man?

 

[PandaBear]

Originally Posted By: y_p_w
Well - they probably do send a few people over, but they generally leave it to the contractor to make sure things are done right. And these contract companies (Foxconn, Quanta, Pegatron) aren't mainland Chinese, but from Taiwan where they have taken QC seriously for decades.


As someone who has went to these "contractors" for a few trips, I can say that yes, many of the people they sent are from all over the place like Taiwan, Singapore, US, India, Europe, Canada, Germany, Japan, or even locally from China, ON THE BUYERS' PAYROLL, trained by the buyers, and will be fired if they didn't catch contractors cutting corners or making mistakes that should have been caught.

 

[dlayman]

Originally Posted By: Silverado12
Originally Posted By: asand1
Originally Posted By: NHGUY
The Chinese wont be happy until they own everything.I think they believe they can bankrupt the world by owning all of it (they can,we owe them trillions).Why would anyone sell to them? Do they not have any pride?


Our own fault, funding methadone clinics and housing the lazy for 5 generations. We won't manufacture anything because of the greenies, but we'll let 3rd world countries do it for us? The financial state of our country is our own doing thanks to the liberal mindedness of the populace.

Its not China's fault that we've contracted out for them to do our dirty work.

We need to stop being a welfare state, start manufacturing and exporting WITHOUT PAYING UNION WAGES, throw out SOME environmental policies, and stop importing every kind of electronic device we use.

We need to stop pushing our kids into 4 year college to get a degree in Greek philosophy, just to go to work at Taco Bell and pay off their debts. Instead push your kids into a vocational/2 year school to learn engineering, nursing, automotive technology, etc..

Quit blaming China and look in a mirror (not just OP, but nationally).


As a former union member I resent what you said. Trade policies are what sent jobs overseas and the corruption of our system caused this. Basically, you have multi-national companies bribing those in power to create policy to make them rich(er). Buy American, people. When it's your job you'll sing a different tune.


Siverado, quoted for truth and accuracy. Due to the "liberal mindedness of the populace" at fault? Please.

 

[asand1]

Originally Posted By: Silverado12
Basically, you have Union Lobyists bribing those in power to create policy to make them rich(er). Buy American, people. When it's your job you'll sing a different tune.


Deny that there are Union lobyists that stick very close to a particular political party, I dare you.

And I wouldn't work for a Union any sooner that I would castrate myself.