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So whatever became of deflategate?
- Thread starter grampi
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Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: Wolf359
It's a good point about the colts footballs, however I think the point you miss is that you don't know what they inflated their balls to. So if they used a higher pressure, they also would have dropped, but would still have been in spec, but if that pats just had them inflated to the minimum, then the drop would have taken them out of spec. The key information you're missing is what was the starting pressure of the pats and colt balls?
Also with regards to the run vs. the pass, there's been a lot of talk about it. There was no guarantee that the run was going to get them in. Remember in the previous play, they were tackled at the 1 yard line and there wasn't that much time left on the clock. If they got stuffed, they would have had to burn the last time out.
It's football, sometimes things work out, sometimes it doesn't. I wouldn't say that they got lucky on that last play. Getting lucky is a blown call by an official, but without knowing the outcome, it was a fair call at the time it was made. The risk to the coach is that it will be considered brilliant if it works and be in the doghouse if it doesn't. As it didn't, he has to take the blame, deserved or not. The whole basics of football is to be somewhat unpredictable, if the play will be a pass or run. If it's always a run, then they load up against the run.
Dude, the stupidly called pass play by SEA took place on 2nd down. NE was not going to stop Lynch from the 1 yard line on three straight downs...wasn't gonna happen...
Did you notice how much clock was left at the time? Plus only 1 timeout. There wasn't enough time for 3 run plays. Remember they stopped him earlier at the 1 yard line. Obvious running plays also have the potential for loss yardage, there's no guarantee the next play starts at the 1 even on a running play.
Monday morning quarterbacking, hindsight etc., makes it a stupid call for a pass play. But maybe it was a great read by the defense and poor execution of a pass play. If you watch enough football, last minute drives are always exciting, but many of them are not successful. Whatacouldashoulda about sums it up. You could apply that to the two SB that the Pats lost, they should have won those aside from one or two plays. But a loss is a loss and a win is a win.
Also the key point about the colts ball is they were NOT at the same pressure as the pats balls. Therefore the fact that the colts balls were still in an acceptable range proves nothing. There was a range that the balls could be in. If the colts balls were in a higher range to start, at the end they could have been in a lower range and still have been in an acceptable range. If the pats balls started out in a lower range, then atmospheric pressure could have caused them to drop out of the acceptable range. I think it really boils down to nothing to see here, go study Boyle's law.
Also remember that one of the balls that was lower than normal, Gronk did end up spiking one of the balls.
Originally Posted By: Wolf359
It's a good point about the colts footballs, however I think the point you miss is that you don't know what they inflated their balls to. So if they used a higher pressure, they also would have dropped, but would still have been in spec, but if that pats just had them inflated to the minimum, then the drop would have taken them out of spec. The key information you're missing is what was the starting pressure of the pats and colt balls?
Also with regards to the run vs. the pass, there's been a lot of talk about it. There was no guarantee that the run was going to get them in. Remember in the previous play, they were tackled at the 1 yard line and there wasn't that much time left on the clock. If they got stuffed, they would have had to burn the last time out.
It's football, sometimes things work out, sometimes it doesn't. I wouldn't say that they got lucky on that last play. Getting lucky is a blown call by an official, but without knowing the outcome, it was a fair call at the time it was made. The risk to the coach is that it will be considered brilliant if it works and be in the doghouse if it doesn't. As it didn't, he has to take the blame, deserved or not. The whole basics of football is to be somewhat unpredictable, if the play will be a pass or run. If it's always a run, then they load up against the run.
Dude, the stupidly called pass play by SEA took place on 2nd down. NE was not going to stop Lynch from the 1 yard line on three straight downs...wasn't gonna happen...
Did you notice how much clock was left at the time? Plus only 1 timeout. There wasn't enough time for 3 run plays. Remember they stopped him earlier at the 1 yard line. Obvious running plays also have the potential for loss yardage, there's no guarantee the next play starts at the 1 even on a running play.
Monday morning quarterbacking, hindsight etc., makes it a stupid call for a pass play. But maybe it was a great read by the defense and poor execution of a pass play. If you watch enough football, last minute drives are always exciting, but many of them are not successful. Whatacouldashoulda about sums it up. You could apply that to the two SB that the Pats lost, they should have won those aside from one or two plays. But a loss is a loss and a win is a win.
Also the key point about the colts ball is they were NOT at the same pressure as the pats balls. Therefore the fact that the colts balls were still in an acceptable range proves nothing. There was a range that the balls could be in. If the colts balls were in a higher range to start, at the end they could have been in a lower range and still have been in an acceptable range. If the pats balls started out in a lower range, then atmospheric pressure could have caused them to drop out of the acceptable range. I think it really boils down to nothing to see here, go study Boyle's law.
Also remember that one of the balls that was lower than normal, Gronk did end up spiking one of the balls.
Originally Posted By: Wolf359
It's a good point about the colts footballs, however I think the point you miss is that you don't know what they inflated their balls to. So if they used a higher pressure, they also would have dropped, but would still have been in spec, but if that pats just had them inflated to the minimum, then the drop would have taken them out of spec. The key information you're missing is what was the starting pressure of the pats and colt balls?
None of this matters. The rules require the balls to be in spec. The Colts managed to do it, and the Patriots failed.
I heard today the NFL is still investigating. The NFL is a joke when it comes to holding executives accountable. The Falcons were found to be pumping artificial crowd noise in for 2 years. Rich McKay, the Falcons GM, is the chair of the competition committee. Rich was suspended from the committee, and the Falcons lost a draft pick. Ray Farmer of the Browns was texting a coach during the game, and he's suspended for the first 4 weeks of the regular season. Neither of these are major punishment. Let a player do something off the field, and they lose a year of pay.
It's a good point about the colts footballs, however I think the point you miss is that you don't know what they inflated their balls to. So if they used a higher pressure, they also would have dropped, but would still have been in spec, but if that pats just had them inflated to the minimum, then the drop would have taken them out of spec. The key information you're missing is what was the starting pressure of the pats and colt balls?
None of this matters. The rules require the balls to be in spec. The Colts managed to do it, and the Patriots failed.
I heard today the NFL is still investigating. The NFL is a joke when it comes to holding executives accountable. The Falcons were found to be pumping artificial crowd noise in for 2 years. Rich McKay, the Falcons GM, is the chair of the competition committee. Rich was suspended from the committee, and the Falcons lost a draft pick. Ray Farmer of the Browns was texting a coach during the game, and he's suspended for the first 4 weeks of the regular season. Neither of these are major punishment. Let a player do something off the field, and they lose a year of pay.
The NFL doesn't have anything or we would had heard something by now. They're hoping everyone will forget about it.
They're going to have to write up an apology.
They're going to have to write up an apology.
I'm still under the belief that deflategate was contrived to bring more attention to the SB during the 2 "dead" weeks where there's not much going on in the NFL. While hardcore fans will remained interested, the vast majority of casual football fans won't follow the league during these 2 weeks -- unless there's a big story.
The Seahawks were outplayed in this game, that's why they lost. As for the INT, the Pats outplayed them on that play. NE was in a run defense with only 3 defensive backs; Seattle had 3 WRs. Advantage Seattle. The fact Seattle couldn't score with a HUGE personnel advantage was their undoing. It had nothing to do with luck.
Originally Posted By: whip
Originally Posted By: Wolf359
It's a good point about the colts footballs, however I think the point you miss is that you don't know what they inflated their balls to. So if they used a higher pressure, they also would have dropped, but would still have been in spec, but if that pats just had them inflated to the minimum, then the drop would have taken them out of spec. The key information you're missing is what was the starting pressure of the pats and colt balls?
None of this matters. The rules require the balls to be in spec. The Colts managed to do it, and the Patriots failed.
I heard today the NFL is still investigating. The NFL is a joke when it comes to holding executives accountable. The Falcons were found to be pumping artificial crowd noise in for 2 years. Rich McKay, the Falcons GM, is the chair of the competition committee. Rich was suspended from the committee, and the Falcons lost a draft pick. Ray Farmer of the Browns was texting a coach during the game, and he's suspended for the first 4 weeks of the regular season. Neither of these are major punishment. Let a player do something off the field, and they lose a year of pay.
Here's the part you're still missing and I guess a lot of people here don't get. The spec is 12.5 to 13.5 PSI. If the colts balls are at 13.5, a 1 pound drop takes you to 12.5 which is still in spec. If the pats balls were at 12.5, then 1 pound drop is 11.5 PSI which is now out of spec. Just look up Boyle's law.
Originally Posted By: Wolf359
It's a good point about the colts footballs, however I think the point you miss is that you don't know what they inflated their balls to. So if they used a higher pressure, they also would have dropped, but would still have been in spec, but if that pats just had them inflated to the minimum, then the drop would have taken them out of spec. The key information you're missing is what was the starting pressure of the pats and colt balls?
None of this matters. The rules require the balls to be in spec. The Colts managed to do it, and the Patriots failed.
I heard today the NFL is still investigating. The NFL is a joke when it comes to holding executives accountable. The Falcons were found to be pumping artificial crowd noise in for 2 years. Rich McKay, the Falcons GM, is the chair of the competition committee. Rich was suspended from the committee, and the Falcons lost a draft pick. Ray Farmer of the Browns was texting a coach during the game, and he's suspended for the first 4 weeks of the regular season. Neither of these are major punishment. Let a player do something off the field, and they lose a year of pay.
Here's the part you're still missing and I guess a lot of people here don't get. The spec is 12.5 to 13.5 PSI. If the colts balls are at 13.5, a 1 pound drop takes you to 12.5 which is still in spec. If the pats balls were at 12.5, then 1 pound drop is 11.5 PSI which is now out of spec. Just look up Boyle's law.
Originally Posted By: Wolf359
Here's the part you're still missing and I guess a lot of people here don't get. The spec is 12.5 to 13.5 PSI. If the colts balls are at 13.5, a 1 pound drop takes you to 12.5 which is still in spec. If the pats balls were at 12.5, then 1 pound drop is 11.5 PSI which is now out of spec. Just look up Boyle's law.
I understand all of that. The rules are clear. The Colts, a team that plays in a dome kept their balls in spec. The home team, the one that plays in changing weather, didn't. The Patriots should known they have to inflate the balls to account for the weather. An out of spec ball is out of spec. The reason doesn't matter.
Here's the part you're still missing and I guess a lot of people here don't get. The spec is 12.5 to 13.5 PSI. If the colts balls are at 13.5, a 1 pound drop takes you to 12.5 which is still in spec. If the pats balls were at 12.5, then 1 pound drop is 11.5 PSI which is now out of spec. Just look up Boyle's law.
I understand all of that. The rules are clear. The Colts, a team that plays in a dome kept their balls in spec. The home team, the one that plays in changing weather, didn't. The Patriots should known they have to inflate the balls to account for the weather. An out of spec ball is out of spec. The reason doesn't matter.
Nothing became of it because there's nothing to report. Repeating my post from the last thread as I believe the points made are on topic in this one as well:
The old saying "you ain't trying if you ain't cheating" applies here. All sports have varying levels of gamesmanship/cheating/whatever. Hockey players tape and curve their sticks, basketball players flop, baseball players cork bats/use pine tar/pretend they made a catch when they know it hit the ground/etc, the list is endless. I can't get too bent out of shape about any of it. The officials' job is to enforce the rules to prevent such trickery but they of course are not perfect.
Let's stipulate that the Patriots intentionally provided 11 underinflated balls and 13 properly inflated balls. The referees had the opportunity, both before the game and one or more times before and after virtually every play, to verify the correct pressure. They failed to do so.
As someone else pointed out, after the officials introduced the remaining properly inflated balls in the 2nd half, the Patriots continued to crush the Colts, in more impressive fashion than in the first half when they held the supposed advantage from the underinflated balls.
Last, in my opinion as someone who plays football regularly for most of the year, this issue is overblown har har. The texture/grip of the ball's surface, if it's clean or dirty, dry or wet, and the temperature are all much more relevant to the ease of throwing, holding, and catching the ball than subtle differences in pressure.
jeff
The old saying "you ain't trying if you ain't cheating" applies here. All sports have varying levels of gamesmanship/cheating/whatever. Hockey players tape and curve their sticks, basketball players flop, baseball players cork bats/use pine tar/pretend they made a catch when they know it hit the ground/etc, the list is endless. I can't get too bent out of shape about any of it. The officials' job is to enforce the rules to prevent such trickery but they of course are not perfect.
Let's stipulate that the Patriots intentionally provided 11 underinflated balls and 13 properly inflated balls. The referees had the opportunity, both before the game and one or more times before and after virtually every play, to verify the correct pressure. They failed to do so.
As someone else pointed out, after the officials introduced the remaining properly inflated balls in the 2nd half, the Patriots continued to crush the Colts, in more impressive fashion than in the first half when they held the supposed advantage from the underinflated balls.
Last, in my opinion as someone who plays football regularly for most of the year, this issue is overblown har har. The texture/grip of the ball's surface, if it's clean or dirty, dry or wet, and the temperature are all much more relevant to the ease of throwing, holding, and catching the ball than subtle differences in pressure.
jeff
Originally Posted By: Wolf359
Originally Posted By: whip
Originally Posted By: Wolf359
It's a good point about the colts footballs, however I think the point you miss is that you don't know what they inflated their balls to. So if they used a higher pressure, they also would have dropped, but would still have been in spec, but if that pats just had them inflated to the minimum, then the drop would have taken them out of spec. The key information you're missing is what was the starting pressure of the pats and colt balls?
None of this matters. The rules require the balls to be in spec. The Colts managed to do it, and the Patriots failed.
I heard today the NFL is still investigating. The NFL is a joke when it comes to holding executives accountable. The Falcons were found to be pumping artificial crowd noise in for 2 years. Rich McKay, the Falcons GM, is the chair of the competition committee. Rich was suspended from the committee, and the Falcons lost a draft pick. Ray Farmer of the Browns was texting a coach during the game, and he's suspended for the first 4 weeks of the regular season. Neither of these are major punishment. Let a player do something off the field, and they lose a year of pay.
Here's the part you're still missing and I guess a lot of people here don't get. The spec is 12.5 to 13.5 PSI. If the colts balls are at 13.5, a 1 pound drop takes you to 12.5 which is still in spec. If the pats balls were at 12.5, then 1 pound drop is 11.5 PSI which is now out of spec. Just look up Boyle's law.
Right but the Pat's balls that were under were reported to be in the 10 PSI range so that means if they dropped 1 PSI due to weather, and they were at least inflated to minimum proper spec prior to the game, they would have been at 11.5 PSI. Not in the 10's.
The Ref's checked both the Pat's and Colts balls per league rules prior to the game and unless they were within spec they wouldn't have been allowed into game use. Both team's balls were stored in the same way after that until game time. Both team's balls were outside in the same game time temps during the game.
The Colts balls upon inspection, after something was suspected, were ALL within proper spec. The Patriot's balls however were all under but for 1 or 2. At some point the Patriot's balls had to have been lowered under minimum spec. It is common sense. The laws of physics can explain a 1 PSI drop agreed. However, the inflation spec is only 1 PSI different from min to max. So with a 1.5-2+ PSI drop of the Patriot balls it means they were not within league spec at some point prior to game use and AFTER the Ref's inspection.
It also negates the weather induced 1 PSI drop defense. Further, that 1 PSI drop due to weather/temp defense is flawed in this case as the game time temps were in the 40-50 range. You would need game time temps in the lower 30's or below to cause such a PSI drop.
They cheated. Now it just remains to be seen if the NFL can prove how.
Originally Posted By: whip
Originally Posted By: Wolf359
It's a good point about the colts footballs, however I think the point you miss is that you don't know what they inflated their balls to. So if they used a higher pressure, they also would have dropped, but would still have been in spec, but if that pats just had them inflated to the minimum, then the drop would have taken them out of spec. The key information you're missing is what was the starting pressure of the pats and colt balls?
None of this matters. The rules require the balls to be in spec. The Colts managed to do it, and the Patriots failed.
I heard today the NFL is still investigating. The NFL is a joke when it comes to holding executives accountable. The Falcons were found to be pumping artificial crowd noise in for 2 years. Rich McKay, the Falcons GM, is the chair of the competition committee. Rich was suspended from the committee, and the Falcons lost a draft pick. Ray Farmer of the Browns was texting a coach during the game, and he's suspended for the first 4 weeks of the regular season. Neither of these are major punishment. Let a player do something off the field, and they lose a year of pay.
Here's the part you're still missing and I guess a lot of people here don't get. The spec is 12.5 to 13.5 PSI. If the colts balls are at 13.5, a 1 pound drop takes you to 12.5 which is still in spec. If the pats balls were at 12.5, then 1 pound drop is 11.5 PSI which is now out of spec. Just look up Boyle's law.
Right but the Pat's balls that were under were reported to be in the 10 PSI range so that means if they dropped 1 PSI due to weather, and they were at least inflated to minimum proper spec prior to the game, they would have been at 11.5 PSI. Not in the 10's.
The Ref's checked both the Pat's and Colts balls per league rules prior to the game and unless they were within spec they wouldn't have been allowed into game use. Both team's balls were stored in the same way after that until game time. Both team's balls were outside in the same game time temps during the game.
The Colts balls upon inspection, after something was suspected, were ALL within proper spec. The Patriot's balls however were all under but for 1 or 2. At some point the Patriot's balls had to have been lowered under minimum spec. It is common sense. The laws of physics can explain a 1 PSI drop agreed. However, the inflation spec is only 1 PSI different from min to max. So with a 1.5-2+ PSI drop of the Patriot balls it means they were not within league spec at some point prior to game use and AFTER the Ref's inspection.
It also negates the weather induced 1 PSI drop defense. Further, that 1 PSI drop due to weather/temp defense is flawed in this case as the game time temps were in the 40-50 range. You would need game time temps in the lower 30's or below to cause such a PSI drop.
They cheated. Now it just remains to be seen if the NFL can prove how.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
Originally Posted By: Wolf359
Originally Posted By: whip
Originally Posted By: Wolf359
It's a good point about the colts footballs, however I think the point you miss is that you don't know what they inflated their balls to. So if they used a higher pressure, they also would have dropped, but would still have been in spec, but if that pats just had them inflated to the minimum, then the drop would have taken them out of spec. The key information you're missing is what was the starting pressure of the pats and colt balls?
None of this matters. The rules require the balls to be in spec. The Colts managed to do it, and the Patriots failed.
I heard today the NFL is still investigating. The NFL is a joke when it comes to holding executives accountable. The Falcons were found to be pumping artificial crowd noise in for 2 years. Rich McKay, the Falcons GM, is the chair of the competition committee. Rich was suspended from the committee, and the Falcons lost a draft pick. Ray Farmer of the Browns was texting a coach during the game, and he's suspended for the first 4 weeks of the regular season. Neither of these are major punishment. Let a player do something off the field, and they lose a year of pay.
Here's the part you're still missing and I guess a lot of people here don't get. The spec is 12.5 to 13.5 PSI. If the colts balls are at 13.5, a 1 pound drop takes you to 12.5 which is still in spec. If the pats balls were at 12.5, then 1 pound drop is 11.5 PSI which is now out of spec. Just look up Boyle's law.
Right but the Pat's balls that were under were reported to be in the 10 PSI range so that means if they dropped 1 PSI due to weather, and they were at least inflated to minimum proper spec prior to the game, they would have been at 11.5 PSI. Not in the 10's.
The Ref's checked both the Pat's and Colts balls per league rules prior to the game and unless they were within spec they wouldn't have been allowed into game use. Both team's balls were stored in the same way after that until game time. Both team's balls were outside in the same game time temps during the game.
The Colts balls upon inspection, after something was suspected, were ALL within proper spec. The Patriot's balls however were all under but for 1 or 2. At some point the Patriot's balls had to have been lowered under minimum spec. It is common sense. The laws of physics can explain a 1 PSI drop agreed. However, the inflation spec is only 1 PSI different from min to max. So with a 1.5-2+ PSI drop of the Patriot balls it means they were not within league spec at some point prior to game use and AFTER the Ref's inspection.
It also negates the weather induced 1 PSI drop defense. Further, that 1 PSI drop due to weather/temp defense is flawed in this case as the game time temps were in the 40-50 range. You would need game time temps in the lower 30's or below to cause such a PSI drop.
They cheated. Now it just remains to be seen if the NFL can prove how.
Pats fans obviously don't care that their team cheated, and the NFL doesn't want to give themselves a black eye by punishing the team, so nothing will be done about it...
Originally Posted By: Wolf359
Originally Posted By: whip
Originally Posted By: Wolf359
It's a good point about the colts footballs, however I think the point you miss is that you don't know what they inflated their balls to. So if they used a higher pressure, they also would have dropped, but would still have been in spec, but if that pats just had them inflated to the minimum, then the drop would have taken them out of spec. The key information you're missing is what was the starting pressure of the pats and colt balls?
None of this matters. The rules require the balls to be in spec. The Colts managed to do it, and the Patriots failed.
I heard today the NFL is still investigating. The NFL is a joke when it comes to holding executives accountable. The Falcons were found to be pumping artificial crowd noise in for 2 years. Rich McKay, the Falcons GM, is the chair of the competition committee. Rich was suspended from the committee, and the Falcons lost a draft pick. Ray Farmer of the Browns was texting a coach during the game, and he's suspended for the first 4 weeks of the regular season. Neither of these are major punishment. Let a player do something off the field, and they lose a year of pay.
Here's the part you're still missing and I guess a lot of people here don't get. The spec is 12.5 to 13.5 PSI. If the colts balls are at 13.5, a 1 pound drop takes you to 12.5 which is still in spec. If the pats balls were at 12.5, then 1 pound drop is 11.5 PSI which is now out of spec. Just look up Boyle's law.
Right but the Pat's balls that were under were reported to be in the 10 PSI range so that means if they dropped 1 PSI due to weather, and they were at least inflated to minimum proper spec prior to the game, they would have been at 11.5 PSI. Not in the 10's.
The Ref's checked both the Pat's and Colts balls per league rules prior to the game and unless they were within spec they wouldn't have been allowed into game use. Both team's balls were stored in the same way after that until game time. Both team's balls were outside in the same game time temps during the game.
The Colts balls upon inspection, after something was suspected, were ALL within proper spec. The Patriot's balls however were all under but for 1 or 2. At some point the Patriot's balls had to have been lowered under minimum spec. It is common sense. The laws of physics can explain a 1 PSI drop agreed. However, the inflation spec is only 1 PSI different from min to max. So with a 1.5-2+ PSI drop of the Patriot balls it means they were not within league spec at some point prior to game use and AFTER the Ref's inspection.
It also negates the weather induced 1 PSI drop defense. Further, that 1 PSI drop due to weather/temp defense is flawed in this case as the game time temps were in the 40-50 range. You would need game time temps in the lower 30's or below to cause such a PSI drop.
They cheated. Now it just remains to be seen if the NFL can prove how.
Pats fans obviously don't care that their team cheated, and the NFL doesn't want to give themselves a black eye by punishing the team, so nothing will be done about it...
Originally Posted By: Wolf359
Here's the part you're still missing and I guess a lot of people here don't get. The spec is 12.5 to 13.5 PSI. If the colts balls are at 13.5, a 1 pound drop takes you to 12.5 which is still in spec. If the pats balls were at 12.5, then 1 pound drop is 11.5 PSI which is now out of spec. Just look up Boyle's law.
It's actually the Ideal Gas Law, which combines Boyle's Law (which relates pressure and volume at a constant temperature) and Charles' Law (which relates volume and temperature at a constant pressure).
Either way, it's not relevant to punitive action. The rules are the rules, and excuses for why the balls didn't comply don't (or, rather, shouldn't) matter. The Patriots' balls were under-inflated. This means either:
[a] They don't understand the science, and didn't realize that the balls inflated to a certain pressure at room temperature would remain at that pressure on a cold field; or,
They did know this, and pushed the envelope and didn't leave enough "wiggle room" for changing conditions.
The fact that the Colts' balls were properly inflated demonstrates that it is possible to remain compliant with the regulations playing on a cold field. The reason why the Patriots' balls were not properly inflated is immaterial.
Here's the part you're still missing and I guess a lot of people here don't get. The spec is 12.5 to 13.5 PSI. If the colts balls are at 13.5, a 1 pound drop takes you to 12.5 which is still in spec. If the pats balls were at 12.5, then 1 pound drop is 11.5 PSI which is now out of spec. Just look up Boyle's law.
It's actually the Ideal Gas Law, which combines Boyle's Law (which relates pressure and volume at a constant temperature) and Charles' Law (which relates volume and temperature at a constant pressure).
Either way, it's not relevant to punitive action. The rules are the rules, and excuses for why the balls didn't comply don't (or, rather, shouldn't) matter. The Patriots' balls were under-inflated. This means either:
[a] They don't understand the science, and didn't realize that the balls inflated to a certain pressure at room temperature would remain at that pressure on a cold field; or,
They did know this, and pushed the envelope and didn't leave enough "wiggle room" for changing conditions.
The fact that the Colts' balls were properly inflated demonstrates that it is possible to remain compliant with the regulations playing on a cold field. The reason why the Patriots' balls were not properly inflated is immaterial.
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
Originally Posted By: Wolf359
Originally Posted By: whip
Originally Posted By: Wolf359
It's a good point about the colts footballs, however I think the point you miss is that you don't know what they inflated their balls to. So if they used a higher pressure, they also would have dropped, but would still have been in spec, but if that pats just had them inflated to the minimum, then the drop would have taken them out of spec. The key information you're missing is what was the starting pressure of the pats and colt balls?
None of this matters. The rules require the balls to be in spec. The Colts managed to do it, and the Patriots failed.
I heard today the NFL is still investigating. The NFL is a joke when it comes to holding executives accountable. The Falcons were found to be pumping artificial crowd noise in for 2 years. Rich McKay, the Falcons GM, is the chair of the competition committee. Rich was suspended from the committee, and the Falcons lost a draft pick. Ray Farmer of the Browns was texting a coach during the game, and he's suspended for the first 4 weeks of the regular season. Neither of these are major punishment. Let a player do something off the field, and they lose a year of pay.
Here's the part you're still missing and I guess a lot of people here don't get. The spec is 12.5 to 13.5 PSI. If the colts balls are at 13.5, a 1 pound drop takes you to 12.5 which is still in spec. If the pats balls were at 12.5, then 1 pound drop is 11.5 PSI which is now out of spec. Just look up Boyle's law.
Right but the Pat's balls that were under were reported to be in the 10 PSI range so that means if they dropped 1 PSI due to weather, and they were at least inflated to minimum proper spec prior to the game, they would have been at 11.5 PSI. Not in the 10's.
The Ref's checked both the Pat's and Colts balls per league rules prior to the game and unless they were within spec they wouldn't have been allowed into game use. Both team's balls were stored in the same way after that until game time. Both team's balls were outside in the same game time temps during the game.
The Colts balls upon inspection, after something was suspected, were ALL within proper spec. The Patriot's balls however were all under but for 1 or 2. At some point the Patriot's balls had to have been lowered under minimum spec. It is common sense. The laws of physics can explain a 1 PSI drop agreed. However, the inflation spec is only 1 PSI different from min to max. So with a 1.5-2+ PSI drop of the Patriot balls it means they were not within league spec at some point prior to game use and AFTER the Ref's inspection.
It also negates the weather induced 1 PSI drop defense. Further, that 1 PSI drop due to weather/temp defense is flawed in this case as the game time temps were in the 40-50 range. You would need game time temps in the lower 30's or below to cause such a PSI drop.
They cheated. Now it just remains to be seen if the NFL can prove how.
You should read the deflategate wiki. There was only one ball that was under 2 PSI. Gronk spiked a ball. There was also an official selling game balls and was later fired. The other balls were 11.5 PSI. They were at the proper pressure when they were tested inside. If you read the rules, it doesn't really state what the temperature and pressure should be when they're tested so they were in spec at one point. The rules don't actually have a spec for weather.
There were also some initial miscalculations on the pressure drop, it's 12.5-13.5 psi inside the ball, but you also need to account for the atmospheric pressure when doing the calculations so some initial reports that said that the temperature drop wasn't enough to account for it later corrected themselves and said yes it was possible.
I think Mr. Kraft is still waiting for an apology.
Originally Posted By: Wolf359
Originally Posted By: whip
Originally Posted By: Wolf359
It's a good point about the colts footballs, however I think the point you miss is that you don't know what they inflated their balls to. So if they used a higher pressure, they also would have dropped, but would still have been in spec, but if that pats just had them inflated to the minimum, then the drop would have taken them out of spec. The key information you're missing is what was the starting pressure of the pats and colt balls?
None of this matters. The rules require the balls to be in spec. The Colts managed to do it, and the Patriots failed.
I heard today the NFL is still investigating. The NFL is a joke when it comes to holding executives accountable. The Falcons were found to be pumping artificial crowd noise in for 2 years. Rich McKay, the Falcons GM, is the chair of the competition committee. Rich was suspended from the committee, and the Falcons lost a draft pick. Ray Farmer of the Browns was texting a coach during the game, and he's suspended for the first 4 weeks of the regular season. Neither of these are major punishment. Let a player do something off the field, and they lose a year of pay.
Here's the part you're still missing and I guess a lot of people here don't get. The spec is 12.5 to 13.5 PSI. If the colts balls are at 13.5, a 1 pound drop takes you to 12.5 which is still in spec. If the pats balls were at 12.5, then 1 pound drop is 11.5 PSI which is now out of spec. Just look up Boyle's law.
Right but the Pat's balls that were under were reported to be in the 10 PSI range so that means if they dropped 1 PSI due to weather, and they were at least inflated to minimum proper spec prior to the game, they would have been at 11.5 PSI. Not in the 10's.
The Ref's checked both the Pat's and Colts balls per league rules prior to the game and unless they were within spec they wouldn't have been allowed into game use. Both team's balls were stored in the same way after that until game time. Both team's balls were outside in the same game time temps during the game.
The Colts balls upon inspection, after something was suspected, were ALL within proper spec. The Patriot's balls however were all under but for 1 or 2. At some point the Patriot's balls had to have been lowered under minimum spec. It is common sense. The laws of physics can explain a 1 PSI drop agreed. However, the inflation spec is only 1 PSI different from min to max. So with a 1.5-2+ PSI drop of the Patriot balls it means they were not within league spec at some point prior to game use and AFTER the Ref's inspection.
It also negates the weather induced 1 PSI drop defense. Further, that 1 PSI drop due to weather/temp defense is flawed in this case as the game time temps were in the 40-50 range. You would need game time temps in the lower 30's or below to cause such a PSI drop.
They cheated. Now it just remains to be seen if the NFL can prove how.
You should read the deflategate wiki. There was only one ball that was under 2 PSI. Gronk spiked a ball. There was also an official selling game balls and was later fired. The other balls were 11.5 PSI. They were at the proper pressure when they were tested inside. If you read the rules, it doesn't really state what the temperature and pressure should be when they're tested so they were in spec at one point. The rules don't actually have a spec for weather.
There were also some initial miscalculations on the pressure drop, it's 12.5-13.5 psi inside the ball, but you also need to account for the atmospheric pressure when doing the calculations so some initial reports that said that the temperature drop wasn't enough to account for it later corrected themselves and said yes it was possible.
I think Mr. Kraft is still waiting for an apology.
Originally Posted By: Wolf359
You should read the deflategate wiki. There was only one ball that was under 2 PSI. Gronk spiked a ball. There was also an official selling game balls and was later fired. The other balls were 11.5 PSI. They were at the proper pressure when they were tested inside. If you read the rules, it doesn't really state what the temperature and pressure should be when they're tested so they were in spec at one point. The rules don't actually have a spec for weather.
There were also some initial miscalculations on the pressure drop, it's 12.5-13.5 psi inside the ball, but you also need to account for the atmospheric pressure when doing the calculations so some initial reports that said that the temperature drop wasn't enough to account for it later corrected themselves and said yes it was possible.
I think Mr. Kraft is still waiting for an apology.
Contradicts everything I have seen reported. 10 of the 12 balls were in the 2 PSI range off not just 1. Gronk spiking the ball is 100% immaterial.
Mr. Kraft will have a long wait I think. Even if they can't prove it I seriously doubt any apology is coming as the balls were under.
If the Colts were caught cheating with the ball air pressure during the game would you be so willing to dismiss it? I think not. Patriot's fans make me laugh the way their team can do no wrong but they sure do cry when something goes against them.
You should read the deflategate wiki. There was only one ball that was under 2 PSI. Gronk spiked a ball. There was also an official selling game balls and was later fired. The other balls were 11.5 PSI. They were at the proper pressure when they were tested inside. If you read the rules, it doesn't really state what the temperature and pressure should be when they're tested so they were in spec at one point. The rules don't actually have a spec for weather.
There were also some initial miscalculations on the pressure drop, it's 12.5-13.5 psi inside the ball, but you also need to account for the atmospheric pressure when doing the calculations so some initial reports that said that the temperature drop wasn't enough to account for it later corrected themselves and said yes it was possible.
I think Mr. Kraft is still waiting for an apology.
Contradicts everything I have seen reported. 10 of the 12 balls were in the 2 PSI range off not just 1. Gronk spiking the ball is 100% immaterial.
Mr. Kraft will have a long wait I think. Even if they can't prove it I seriously doubt any apology is coming as the balls were under.
If the Colts were caught cheating with the ball air pressure during the game would you be so willing to dismiss it? I think not. Patriot's fans make me laugh the way their team can do no wrong but they sure do cry when something goes against them.
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Would stretch affect pressure in any way.
Fir example let's say the balls were inflated properly then as the leather stretched the pressure drops due to the skin being less resistant.
Just spitballing........
Fir example let's say the balls were inflated properly then as the leather stretched the pressure drops due to the skin being less resistant.
Just spitballing........
Originally Posted By: Clevy
Would stretch affect pressure in any way.
Fir example let's say the balls were inflated properly then as the leather stretched the pressure drops due to the skin being less resistant.
Just spitballing........
If volume changes, pressure changes (Boyle's law, constant temperature). Volume increase would cause pressure decrease. But I'm not sure it would happen or not.
Would stretch affect pressure in any way.
Fir example let's say the balls were inflated properly then as the leather stretched the pressure drops due to the skin being less resistant.
Just spitballing........
If volume changes, pressure changes (Boyle's law, constant temperature). Volume increase would cause pressure decrease. But I'm not sure it would happen or not.
I still want to know what method the teams use to inflate the ball and what they use to measure the pressure. How often are the gauges calibrated because I have two digital gauges at home that read at least 1 psi difference and they are both fairly new.
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