In my opinion Bernie is a huge part of the problem, but not all of it. Some of the silly rules like penalized for an engine change, fuel consumption limits, engine development restrictions, etc need to be scrapped. Some of the other stuff that is proposed is garbage. Wind tunnels are used for road car design, hybrids are already on the road, formula one is supposed to be cutting edge not banned from using things that are already in commercial use.
German Grand Prix; apparently not in 2015
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Originally Posted By: Trav
If enough of the big players decide to chuck it in then maybe they will listen.
I think that's where Bernie is confident. Red Bull throws up a stink, but there's already talk of Renault wanting to take over STR as a works team. Making a very hypothetical threat to quit when there's at least one hypothetical buyer of one of those teams obviously doesn't worry Bernie much.
Whitewolf, I think the concern about wind tunnel was the cost of running and maintaining them. Red Bull has one available, and Sir Frank has two of the things. I certainly agree, though, that they should be cautious about banning things that are already in widespread use in the real world. Stock car isn't "stock car" anymore, so don't stagnate F1.
If enough of the big players decide to chuck it in then maybe they will listen.
I think that's where Bernie is confident. Red Bull throws up a stink, but there's already talk of Renault wanting to take over STR as a works team. Making a very hypothetical threat to quit when there's at least one hypothetical buyer of one of those teams obviously doesn't worry Bernie much.
Whitewolf, I think the concern about wind tunnel was the cost of running and maintaining them. Red Bull has one available, and Sir Frank has two of the things. I certainly agree, though, that they should be cautious about banning things that are already in widespread use in the real world. Stock car isn't "stock car" anymore, so don't stagnate F1.
Bernie doesn't make the rules. The FIA and TEAMS make the rules. This is what the teams wanted. The teams wanted the hybrid technology, because it is cutting edge. McLaren, Ferrari, Porsche, Honda, etc all make hybrid super cars. Hybrid super cars that are vastly better than the non hybrid cars they replace. WEC has hybrid power, and nobody seems to mind.
The teams are also the ones that approved the limited engines and transmissions. It was done to control cost. It's fun to say they should use a whole new car every race, but it's not feasible. Two teams have already closed, and a third is on the brink. Bernie and the teams do need to change the way the money is allocated, but I don't see the big teams giving up their share.
F1 can't have a horse power war because of safety. 1,000 HP isn't going to happen unless they can figure out an acceptable way to slow the cars. Removing aero might be a start.
The teams are also the ones that approved the limited engines and transmissions. It was done to control cost. It's fun to say they should use a whole new car every race, but it's not feasible. Two teams have already closed, and a third is on the brink. Bernie and the teams do need to change the way the money is allocated, but I don't see the big teams giving up their share.
F1 can't have a horse power war because of safety. 1,000 HP isn't going to happen unless they can figure out an acceptable way to slow the cars. Removing aero might be a start.
That was much of my point. It's rather easy and simplistic for Helmut Marko to start hinting about Red Bull and STR pulling out, or Vijay Malya asking for money, but where were they when this stuff was on the table, prior to approval? Bernie doesn't like the sound of these turbo engines, yet where was he when this stuff was up for debate?
Perhaps that's what they wanted, originally, was to have something like WEC type hybrid systems. If so, they shouldn't have gotten into such a Rube-Goldberg type device instead.
One does have to admire Ferrari and Sir Frank. When Ferrari had problems last year, the main target of their anger was their own employees and management who failed to deliver, and justifiably so. Sir Frank seems to just plug along, no matter what happens. He's seen good years and bad years, so I suspect he's just calling this par for the course and moving forward (and doing so quite well), rather than griping.
Perhaps that's what they wanted, originally, was to have something like WEC type hybrid systems. If so, they shouldn't have gotten into such a Rube-Goldberg type device instead.
One does have to admire Ferrari and Sir Frank. When Ferrari had problems last year, the main target of their anger was their own employees and management who failed to deliver, and justifiably so. Sir Frank seems to just plug along, no matter what happens. He's seen good years and bad years, so I suspect he's just calling this par for the course and moving forward (and doing so quite well), rather than griping.
Originally Posted By: whip
F1 can't have a horse power war because of safety. 1,000 HP isn't going to happen unless they can figure out an acceptable way to slow the cars. Removing aero might be a start.
The whole reason F1 went to the narrow track cars (and formerly grooved tires) was to reduce cornering speeds because that was recognized as being the biggest threat to driver safety. The talk is to go back to 200 cm wide cars (still not as wide as pre 1993) and more power. If they get rid a lot of the down force they could still control the cornering speeds while providing better passing without artificial aids like DRS.
Giving drivers horsepower and tires while taking away down force will produce better racing and separate the skilled drivers from the rest. Less reliance on down force should also cut costs as wind tunnel time is very expensive. If they really wanted to cut costs, make cars CFD design only and eliminate the wind tunnel altogether.
As far as RB, how many times did they vote against a spending cap? And now they're complaining about the cost of the engines...give me a break.
F1 can't have a horse power war because of safety. 1,000 HP isn't going to happen unless they can figure out an acceptable way to slow the cars. Removing aero might be a start.
The whole reason F1 went to the narrow track cars (and formerly grooved tires) was to reduce cornering speeds because that was recognized as being the biggest threat to driver safety. The talk is to go back to 200 cm wide cars (still not as wide as pre 1993) and more power. If they get rid a lot of the down force they could still control the cornering speeds while providing better passing without artificial aids like DRS.
Giving drivers horsepower and tires while taking away down force will produce better racing and separate the skilled drivers from the rest. Less reliance on down force should also cut costs as wind tunnel time is very expensive. If they really wanted to cut costs, make cars CFD design only and eliminate the wind tunnel altogether.
As far as RB, how many times did they vote against a spending cap? And now they're complaining about the cost of the engines...give me a break.
I know. Cost is no object when Vettel brings four championships in a row home.
Originally Posted By: wemay
Egomaniac...
Bernie is good for lining his pockets. Bernie has long past being good for Formula 1.
Egomaniac...
Bernie is good for lining his pockets. Bernie has long past being good for Formula 1.
I'm usually one to give Bernie the benefit of the doubt. However, he's said a few ominous things over the past few days that make me wonder if he's looking for one last battle.
Bernie, stick to marketing, Bernie stick to marketing.... If I repeat it enough, maybe he'll hear me.
Bernie, stick to marketing, Bernie stick to marketing.... If I repeat it enough, maybe he'll hear me.
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