Mobil 1 0w-40 vs German castrol 0w-40 vs rotella?

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I've run quite a few oils in my 03 2.7t, even a resource conserving 5W-30 or two, and I just cannot deny that M1 in the 5 quart jug at WM is the best deal going usually. The only thing that would now get me to switch is if WM puts the Castrol 0W-40 on roll back again. I've been stage 1 for ~50k miles now, and I highly suggest getting a tune from ddillinger on Audizine or stuklr on Quattroworld allroad forum. The 2.7t is nice stock but really wakes up running 14-16 psi.

I don't have any UOAs but have had the valve covers off several times (Audi just couldn't get the 30V V6 engines to hold their oil) and the cams are all in great shape and there's no sludge to be found.

I'd also suggest using the Mann W940/25 oil filter over the W930/21 as it's cheaper and has a bit more media. It should just fit on the B5 platform.
 
I'm wanting to get a tune soon. I just need to gather the money up. I already have both a mann 940 and the oem. I bought both in case the 940 didn't fit lol. It looks so close. I actually think right now at my local Walmart castrol 0w-40 isn't any more expensive than mobil 1. I know when I looked the other day they were within .50 cents of each other. It's just so difficult to choose between the 2. I've been doing so much research and of course there's people that swear by each and also that say they have had bad experiences or just say they like one over the other. I know I'll be fine with either choice at this point it's just a matter of trying to actually decide which one now lol.
 
02s4audi, Let the higher flash point of the castrol decide it for you. Turbos, it matters. Slimmest of differences yes.
 
From the two voa's I just looked at (one of each) the gc has a flashpoint higher by 5 correct? Or did I find some wrong information? I found a voa for each in hear and the flashpoint for Mobil was 430 and gc 0w-40 was 435
 
Originally Posted By: 02s4audi
From the two voa's I just looked at (one of each) the gc has a flashpoint higher by 5 correct? Or did I find some wrong information? I found a voa for each in hear and the flashpoint for Mobil was 430 and gc 0w-40 was 435


Depends on whether or not you believe Technical Data Sheets published, or the Blackstone or whoever's lab results. There might be some product variation too. Marginally, Castrol seems to always win the flash point battle. There is a 20 deg F difference, Castrol flashes hotter, according to the published data sheets.
 
Originally Posted By: VR6OOM
Thank you Garak. Noob mistake, I didn't intentionally leave out the info.

I just get picky. Some people are afraid to walk past a vehicle with cats with a jug of Rotella in their hands.
wink.gif
 
Originally Posted By: bobbydavro
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: bobbydavro
PD diesels shouldnt use 0Ws. No 0Ws im aware of carry VW 505 01

Although this one does not carry VW 505.01, it does carry MB 229.51 and BMW LL-04, ACEA C3.
If that oil was offered in the U.S. I would use it in my DI engines no questions asked.
http://www.mobil1.de/produkte/esp-0w-40-dexos-2-lizenziert.aspx?tabs=Spezifikationen#tabs


PD is diesel pumpe duse

Yeah, not understanding what you trying to say?
 
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: bobbydavro
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: bobbydavro
PD diesels shouldnt use 0Ws. No 0Ws im aware of carry VW 505 01

Although this one does not carry VW 505.01, it does carry MB 229.51 and BMW LL-04, ACEA C3.
If that oil was offered in the U.S. I would use it in my DI engines no questions asked.
http://www.mobil1.de/produkte/esp-0w-40-dexos-2-lizenziert.aspx?tabs=Spezifikationen#tabs


PD is diesel pumpe duse

Yeah, not understanding what you trying to say?


Me neither then, You quoted me when I said PD engines shouldnt use 0W.

Problem with mid SAPs is that BMW LL04 has no gasoline application outside Europe. US needs better fuel before Mid SAPs become more common.

In anycase VM type and treat is more of a factor than detergent level and BOV, 5W30s are better for DI engines, less VM even if not a 504 507 oil.
 
Originally Posted By: bobbydavro
What is the benefit of a high flash point?

The reproducibility of the test is bigger difference than 'comparisons' of oils.


Doesn't it indicate more thermally stable oil?
Reproducibility, yep and product variation, although we almost always see Castrol slightly winning.
 
No as you can put a tiny bit of fuel/solvent/light base oil and it makes it drop a fair amount

It's information yes as can tell you some information but it shouldn't be a parameter of performance.
 
I don't know, does it? You tell us, you're the one who said it was important.

Originally Posted By: fredfactory
Originally Posted By: bobbydavro
What is the benefit of a high flash point?
The reproducibility of the test is bigger difference than 'comparisons' of oils.

Doesn't it indicate more thermally stable oil?
Reproducibility, yep and product variation, although we almost always see Castrol slightly winning.
 
Originally Posted By: bobbydavro
No as you can put a tiny bit of fuel/solvent/light base oil and it makes it drop a fair amount

It's information yes as can tell you some information but it shouldn't be a parameter of performance.


The lighter components should flash off, yes. Still sounds like higher is better! Simple.

Originally Posted By: kschachn
I don't know, does it? You tell us, you're the one who said it was important.

I do think a higher flash point is better. You can assign whatever importance you want to that. Oil shouldn't flash at lower temperatures, thats for sure. Generally, anything about about 400 degrees F is adequate. The higher the better.
 
Originally Posted By: VR6OOM
Factory claimed specs for all three oils below. I would go with Mobil 1 just based on this info. Perhaps UOA's from other S4's will tell a different story?

Shell Rotella T6 5W-40 No gas certifications
Saps 1.0
Tbn 9.9
Flash 410
Noack 12.8%
Hths 4
VI 170

Castrol Edge 0W-40 ACEA A3/B4, API SN, VW 502/505, LL01, A40, 229.5
Information tough to find since Castrol hasn't published a lot of the official numbers
Saps > 1.0
Tbn > 10
Flash > 392
Noack < 13%
Hths 3.5
VI 169

Mobil 1 0W-40 ACEA A3/B3, A3/B4, API SN, VW 502/505, LL01, A40, 229.5
Saps 1.3
Tbn 11.8
Flash 446
Noack 8.9 (via blackstone voa)
Hths 3.8
VI 185


NOACK via backstone VOA?
Really?
Can't say that I've ever seen NOACK numbers in any Blackstone oil analysis.
Maybe via top of someone's head?
 
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Why is higher better? Higher might indicate a base oil /component mix that is low in low mw components.

But if you want high flash points then get a 25W-50. Remember most components in oil are flammable and the engine is basically a Distiallation tower so there will be some liquid to gas (and back to liquid ) phase changes. However anything flashing below 250C will be small quantity and, whilst enough to do something in a flash point test, will be long gone the first time an engine gets up to temperature and disappears down the breather system.

Residual solvents/ light DI diluents can lower flash point on fresh oil. However rerun the flash point test on the Same sample and the number will be higher as these will have boiled off. There is no open flame inside an engine either

Basically, flash points are rather meaningless. Noack and cold crack give a better indication of base oil
 
Originally Posted By: bobbydavro
Why is higher better? Higher might indicate a base oil /component mix that is low in low mw components.

But if you want high flash points then get a 25W-50. Remember most components in oil are flammable and the engine is basically a Distiallation tower so there will be some liquid to gas (and back to liquid ) phase changes. However anything flashing below 250C will be small quantity and, whilst enough to do something in a flash point test, will be long gone the first time an engine gets up to temperature and disappears down the breather system.

Residual solvents/ light DI diluents can lower flash point on fresh oil. However rerun the flash point test on the Same sample and the number will be higher as these will have boiled off. There is no open flame inside an engine either

Basically, flash points are rather meaningless. Noack and cold crack give a better indication of base oil


Starting to think flash point doesn't tell us a whole lot. Still, I do want higher, but notice an interesting comparison:
M1 Racing 0w-30 FP=217degC 422degF
M1 Racing 0w-50 FP=221degC
M1 0w-40 FP=230degC (can be used for racing according to Mobil)
Castrol 0w-40 FP=240degC 464degF

Comment: You'd think racing oils would have a higher flash point since its assumed that could be a hotter application. And, makes you respect Castrol 0w-40's high flash even more.
 
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Originally Posted By: VR6OOM
Factory claimed specs for all three oils below. I would go with Mobil 1 just based on this info. Perhaps UOA's from other S4's will tell a different story?

Shell Rotella T6 5W-40 No gas certifications
Saps 1.0
Tbn 9.9
Flash 410
Noack 12.8%
Hths 4
VI 170

Castrol Edge 0W-40 ACEA A3/B4, API SN, VW 502/505, LL01, A40, 229.5
Information tough to find since Castrol hasn't published a lot of the official numbers
Saps > 1.0
Tbn > 10
Flash > 392
Noack < 13%
Hths 3.5
VI 169

Mobil 1 0W-40 ACEA A3/B3, A3/B4, API SN, VW 502/505, LL01, A40, 229.5
Saps 1.3
Tbn 11.8
Flash 446
Noack 8.9 (via blackstone voa)
Hths 3.8
VI 185


NOACK via backstone VOA?
Really?
Can't say that I've ever seen NOACK numbers in any Blackstone oil analysis.
Maybe via top of someone's head?

Noack for T6 is from PQIA.
 
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