looking for fully synthetic SAE 40 single grade

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diesoiluser

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I need a synthetic SAE 40 single-grade package with zero viscosity index improvers. The application will have an EGR system, DOC, DPF, and run on ultra-low sulfur diesel (ULSD). 1.0% ash or lower is required. A decent dispersant/detergent package is required. Permanent shear loss is the concern. What is available off the shelf?

I found Amsoil offers an SAE 30 fully synthetic single-grade but no SAE 40 equivalent.

Royal Purple offers SYN V EMD, a fully synthetic SAE 40 single-grade, but it's for an EMD locomotive engine, which I'm not sure has the required soot dispersants and detergents because I'm not sure that engine runs EGR. It also has some additives special for silver-coated bearings, which the target engine does not have. I am unsure what side effects such additives would impose.

Can anyone identify a package with these desired characteristics?

I would rather not discuss the reasons I am uninterested in a package with VIIs.
 
Is that for a 645 or 710 series EMD engine? One of the highly knowledgeable members here told me you cannot use an oil with a ZDDP additive in an engine that has silver lined bearings.
 
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Originally Posted By: diesoiluser
I need a synthetic SAE 40 single-grade package with zero viscosity index improvers. The application will have an EGR system, DOC, DPF, and run on ultra-low sulfur diesel (ULSD). 1.0% ash or lower is required. A decent dispersant/detergent package is required. Permanent shear loss is the concern. What is available off the shelf?

I found Amsoil offers an SAE 30 fully synthetic single-grade but no SAE 40 equivalent.

Royal Purple offers SYN V EMD, a fully synthetic SAE 40 single-grade, but it's for an EMD locomotive engine, which I'm not sure has the required soot dispersants and detergents because I'm not sure that engine runs EGR. It also has some additives special for silver-coated bearings, which the target engine does not have. I am unsure what side effects such additives would impose.

Can anyone identify a package with these desired characteristics?

I would rather not discuss the reasons I am uninterested in a package with VIIs.



You essentially want a CJ-4 monograde 40 syn right off the shelf?
Good luck with that.

Why not go to a custom blender? If you're using in large volumes you probably could get it at a decent price (relative to the small niche you're seeking).
 
RP does offer something called Duralec Ultra SG SAE motor oil. Check their commercial site, rather than their industrial or consumer site. The site is short on details on the product, but does have contact links, and RP is customarily helpful. Whether it's CJ-4 or even fully synthetic isn't revealed there; you'll have to ask them.
 
Why not make your own?

Take some Castrol TWS 10W-60, some Shell Rotella T6 5W-40, two cans of STP oil treatment, and a snip of parsley; shake it all up and you'll have it.

Remember to strain out the parsley though.
smile.gif
 
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
RP PCMO SAE40

Do you think a passenger car package would have adequate soot dispersancy and detergency to deal with typical heavy-duty diesel soot content like 2%? What is the best way to determine this capability without access to an engineer at Royal Purple?

Originally Posted By: Cardenio327
Schaeffer 702 Supreme 7000 Synthetic Plus SAE 40

Excellent, I will consider that one. According to the data sheet it is a blend of PAO and mineral base stock. I am concerned with the low VI of 105 for fuel economy reasons. I thought PAO by itself had a VI of 135+ (Rudnick & Shubkin 1999). Also I am concerned with scuff resistance and wear resistance of the top ring at top reversal and the skirt at high contact conditions like rockover, both effects worst at low speed and high load.

Originally Posted By: kozanoglu
Redline has one too.

Sorry, I looked throughout their web site but could not identify the one you have in mind. Could you point me to it?

Originally Posted By: xxch4osxx
Is that for a 645 or 710 series EMD engine? One of the highly knowledgeable members here told me you cannot use an oil with a ZDDP additive in an engine that has silver lined bearings.

Sorry, I don't know. The Royal Purple data sheet just says EMD. Lack of ZDDP would not necessarily be a concern for my target application because valvetrain distress has proven not to be a concern. If it has a substitute AW additive package that avoids scuffing and wear in the cylinder kit, then it's a promising solution. However, I think the EMD peak cylinder pressures are far lower than what I'm dealing with, so I am leery.

Originally Posted By: tommygunn
Royal Purple still makes a straight 40 PCMO

Thanks Tommy. Same question to you as I posed to aquarius above.

Originally Posted By: Brons2
Straight 40? Sounds like a Detroit 2 stroke

Brons, did the Detroit Diesel 2-strokes have a problem with shearing VIIs?

Originally Posted By: dnewton3
You essentially want a CJ-4 monograde 40 syn right off the shelf?

Yes that is essentially what I asked.

Originally Posted By: used_Oil
Mobil 1340

Thanks. 1.4% ash is a concern for long-term use plugging the DPF in spite of regenerations but maybe OK for short-term testing. It does not appear to be synthetic, so I am concerned with cylinder kit scuff resistance and wear resistance.

Originally Posted By: Garak
RP Duralec Ultra SG SAE motor oil. The site is short on details

Thanks. I will see if they are responsive. You are right, the brochure sure doesn't tell you much.

Originally Posted By: SilverC6
parsely

Ha.
 
With schaeffers friction modifiers, fuel economy will not be an issues. In fact schaeffers engine oils typically increase fuel economy.
 
Have a read of this white paper in the link.

Looks like a piston aircraft oil would be best bet. I've considered using Schaffer SAE 30/40 in a similar application.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CB4QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.utexas.edu%2Fresearch%2Fctr%2Fpdf_reports%2F0_5532_1.pdf&ei=4bAaVee3CIK1ggSflYOAAw&usg=AFQjCNG3F36QB6BN-Bai3M-GpeuFqa6pdg&bvm=bv.89381419,d.eXY

Aeroshell oil
AeroShell straight mineral oils are blended from selected high viscosity index base stocks.
These oils do not contain additives except for a small quantity of pourpoint depressant
(which is added when improved fluidity at very low temperature is required) and an antioxidant.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCAQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.shell.com%2Fcontent%2Fdam%2Fshell%2Fstatic%2Faviation%2Fdownloads%2FAeroShell-Book%2Faeroshell-book-3peo.pdf&ei=w7IaVaHbFoapNsybgbgO&usg=AFQjCNHpP5jaUmlouETClwg-nXcnsxcbEw
 
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Or here's another mind set, Natural Gas Engine Oil.

Buildings run Nat Gas for Co-generation plants, heat and power, these engines typically CAT G3516 or Waukesha. Because they may run days at a time, the oil is designed for low .5 ash, low zinc/phos, however I believe they make up for this in synthetic base oils.

Most natural gas oils are listed as Synthetic SAE 40 . Noticing in that above engine test, they tried gas engine oil in the EMD engine, running diesel . That maybe the way to go, C3 oils specs look similar to say Pegasus 805, in terms of zinc/phos.
 
Interesting info on Nat Gas Oil VS Diesel Oil

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCQQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.valvoline.com%2Fvalint%2Finternational%2Fenglish%2Fstatic_document%2F2012_001_NGEO_FAQs.pdf&ei=JsgaVamfIsupgwSAmIPoAg&usg=AFQjCNEdRmHjrKkBb2qIYcjyRpza_EFEqg&bvm=bv.89381419,d.aWw

http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/29018/natural-gas-engines

I've also run into dual fuel engines, in those cases I would use Diesel oil to have the increased ZDDP.
 
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Problem is, the qualifications the OP laid out are pretty much CJ-4 territory, and the Schaeffer straight 40 weight doesn't even approach that standard.
 
Purely synthetic basestocks have a viscosity index similar to some fully additized conventional monograde oil. If you research the VI of 15w40 oils, you might find that synthetic 15w40 behaves like an SAE40 monograde conventional.

This is why Amsoil called one of their oils SAE30/10w30 ACD.
 
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