European's historical usage of "thick oil"....
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flat tappet engines, often without hydraulic lash adjusters, short trips where the only protection from the oil comes from it's viscosity, lots of city driving which promotes fuel dilution, smaller engines with higher output, revved higher and putting more load on the bearings. Longer OCI's (12,000 miles was already common in the early nineties, now we're talking 20,000 or more for european vehicles).
Originally Posted By: expat
But, Before 20w-50 what was mostly used.........straight 30?
In addition to what Doug said, the SAE 30 remained strong here, particularly until 10w-30 came out. 20w-50 never got the traction in the agricultural industry that it did among hot rodders in this province.
But, Before 20w-50 what was mostly used.........straight 30?
In addition to what Doug said, the SAE 30 remained strong here, particularly until 10w-30 came out. 20w-50 never got the traction in the agricultural industry that it did among hot rodders in this province.
Originally Posted By: philipp10
I have often wondered about this. Something doesn't add up. All the Europeans like thick oil, why?
Yet if I understand this correctly, most engine wear is on start up. So whats the deal.
I'm beginning to think that it's not that Europe that likes THICK oil, but rather, North America tends to favour THINER oil than most other counties in the world.
can anyone prove me wrong on this?
I have often wondered about this. Something doesn't add up. All the Europeans like thick oil, why?
Yet if I understand this correctly, most engine wear is on start up. So whats the deal.
I'm beginning to think that it's not that Europe that likes THICK oil, but rather, North America tends to favour THINER oil than most other counties in the world.
can anyone prove me wrong on this?
Originally Posted By: philipp10
I have often wondered about this. Something doesn't add up. All the Europeans like thick oil, why?
Yet if I understand this correctly, most engine wear is on start up. So whats the deal.
Most wear occurs during warm-up...and thinner doesn't stop it (nor at start-up).
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...on.#Post3680194
I've tried to elucidate it.
I have often wondered about this. Something doesn't add up. All the Europeans like thick oil, why?
Yet if I understand this correctly, most engine wear is on start up. So whats the deal.
Most wear occurs during warm-up...and thinner doesn't stop it (nor at start-up).
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...on.#Post3680194
I've tried to elucidate it.
Originally Posted By: expat
What was the oil recommendation for the Lada in the former Soviet Union?
While trying to answer my own question, it seems that the most popular motor oil weight sold in Russia (today) is 10w-40
That would seem thick by North American standards, and Russia tends to be thought of as a generally COLD country!
What was the oil recommendation for the Lada in the former Soviet Union?
While trying to answer my own question, it seems that the most popular motor oil weight sold in Russia (today) is 10w-40
That would seem thick by North American standards, and Russia tends to be thought of as a generally COLD country!
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Europeans like their oil to last forever and their spark plugs to need changing every 5 minutes. Americans don't like changing spark plugs but love changing oil.
Its a cultural thing, at least it used to be now modern cars are all the same.
More an unleaded fuel thing. Plugs running with lead additive fuel mostly started to break down with tracking issues after about 10k miles, and North America was nearly 20 years ahead of Europe introducing lead free gasoline.
Claud.
Europeans like their oil to last forever and their spark plugs to need changing every 5 minutes. Americans don't like changing spark plugs but love changing oil.
Its a cultural thing, at least it used to be now modern cars are all the same.
More an unleaded fuel thing. Plugs running with lead additive fuel mostly started to break down with tracking issues after about 10k miles, and North America was nearly 20 years ahead of Europe introducing lead free gasoline.
Claud.
True, but we're getting beaten on the low sulphur gas by you guys.
And the ethanol introduces its own set of limitations. I certainly don't miss leaded gas, though.
Originally Posted By: expat
Originally Posted By: philipp10
I have often wondered about this. Something doesn't add up. All the Europeans like thick oil, why?
Yet if I understand this correctly, most engine wear is on start up. So whats the deal.
I'm beginning to think that it's not that Europe that likes THICK oil, but rather, North America tends to favour THINER oil than most other counties in the world.
can anyone prove me wrong on this?
Exactly
Americans can use thiner oils because they have cars with less HP/liter...and moreover....their cars are less fuel efficient...and they are chasing their CAFE requirements 
Originally Posted By: philipp10
I have often wondered about this. Something doesn't add up. All the Europeans like thick oil, why?
Yet if I understand this correctly, most engine wear is on start up. So whats the deal.
I'm beginning to think that it's not that Europe that likes THICK oil, but rather, North America tends to favour THINER oil than most other counties in the world.
can anyone prove me wrong on this?
Exactly
Hmmm, interesting development on my topic.
http://www.docin.com.cn/p-617300575.html
Honda Paper 22-2_08e
Is the development of a Honda 500hp V10 racing engine, and it explores the load profiles and utilisation regimes on the Autobahn, versus typical American usage patterns.
Scroll down to Figure 17....
http://www.docin.com.cn/p-617300575.html
Honda Paper 22-2_08e
Is the development of a Honda 500hp V10 racing engine, and it explores the load profiles and utilisation regimes on the Autobahn, versus typical American usage patterns.
Scroll down to Figure 17....
Not a problem Honda has a nice 0w20, it has VI up the yang and that all thats important. It will work just fine, just keep an eye on the gauges.
Originally Posted By: Caterham
Yeah, it's that thick vs thin argument than never dies on BITOG with the same old characters while the general automotive industry has long since moved on.
Originally Posted By: Caterham
Yeah, it's that thick vs thin argument than never dies on BITOG with the same old characters while the general automotive industry has long since moved on.
Originally Posted By: expat
Originally Posted By: philipp10
I have often wondered about this. Something doesn't add up. All the Europeans like thick oil, why?
Yet if I understand this correctly, most engine wear is on start up. So whats the deal.
I'm beginning to think that it's not that Europe that likes THICK oil, but rather, North America tends to favour THINER oil than most other counties in the world.
can anyone prove me wrong on this?
And you are right. Oil used in Europe isn't really thick. Modern cars for last fifteen years use 5w40 or 5w30. Before that we mostly used 10w40. How is that thick for moderate climate?
There's no EPA to direct which oil grade would be used in vehicles in Europe. Also ACEA is organization of car manufacturers, not government or some environmental agencies.
I think that modern cars in NA could have issues with using oil that is substandard (when comparing API SN with any ACEA spec). American manufacturers are downsizing in engine size and with higher output per litre and turbo charging things are changing fast.
Originally Posted By: philipp10
I have often wondered about this. Something doesn't add up. All the Europeans like thick oil, why?
Yet if I understand this correctly, most engine wear is on start up. So whats the deal.
I'm beginning to think that it's not that Europe that likes THICK oil, but rather, North America tends to favour THINER oil than most other counties in the world.
can anyone prove me wrong on this?
And you are right. Oil used in Europe isn't really thick. Modern cars for last fifteen years use 5w40 or 5w30. Before that we mostly used 10w40. How is that thick for moderate climate?
There's no EPA to direct which oil grade would be used in vehicles in Europe. Also ACEA is organization of car manufacturers, not government or some environmental agencies.
I think that modern cars in NA could have issues with using oil that is substandard (when comparing API SN with any ACEA spec). American manufacturers are downsizing in engine size and with higher output per litre and turbo charging things are changing fast.
Some people on this board talk about 5w30 and xw40 like its molasses.
Originally Posted By: chrisri
There's no EPA to direct which oil grade would be used in vehicles in Europe.
The EPA doesn't direct which oil grades should be used in the U.S., either. Automakers, however, are punished severely with respect to fuel economy targets, and small improvements mean a lot. In Europe, the consumer is punished for poor fuel economy by significantly higher fuel taxes. A tenth of a litre per hundred kilometers means nothing to you or I so won't drive our viscosity choices, but a CAFE penalty means a pile of cash to an automaker, who will pay attention.
There's no EPA to direct which oil grade would be used in vehicles in Europe.
The EPA doesn't direct which oil grades should be used in the U.S., either. Automakers, however, are punished severely with respect to fuel economy targets, and small improvements mean a lot. In Europe, the consumer is punished for poor fuel economy by significantly higher fuel taxes. A tenth of a litre per hundred kilometers means nothing to you or I so won't drive our viscosity choices, but a CAFE penalty means a pile of cash to an automaker, who will pay attention.
The more you read about CAFE and Co2 and who is cashing in the more scandalous it get.
Some people are making a lot of money out of it, just not you or me.
Thats the truth. Another missed money making scheme.
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