So 20 years from now when your motor needs to be rebuilt, you'll only have yourself to blame for using that oil and filter.,,,
Shell T6 and filter question for new Honda nc700x
- Thread starter Kyonic
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Actually it is deviating from the manufacturers requirement. If you roll in with a car oil filter on it and car(non Jaso) approved oil in it, expect them to blame you for the problems. The car oil is especially a bad idea. The anti wear additives in that Pennzoil are not nearly up to snuff to Rotella. They do make 10w30 Rotella just so you know.
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Actually the manual just says any API SG or higher except those labeled energy conserving. It doesn't say JASO only. After that it says or JASO T 903 standard MA, or Honda GN4, or an equivalent motorcycle oil. So since it doesn't specify beyond the above options pretty much any oil that satisfies the first requirement of API SG non-energy conserving 10w-30 satisfies the minimum. 15w-40 Rotella has no leg to stand on under the above requirements.
As for the filter, even if the engine were to fail, all I'd have to do is switch out the filter to a Honda motorcycle specific one before turning the bike over for repairs. Until then I'll rather not spend extra for motorcycle specific filters with less filter media. Not to mention using Honda car filters is nearly universal for all DIYer's when it comes to Honda bikes and oil filter failure has never been cause for any catastrophic engine failure on Hondas.
As for the filter, even if the engine were to fail, all I'd have to do is switch out the filter to a Honda motorcycle specific one before turning the bike over for repairs. Until then I'll rather not spend extra for motorcycle specific filters with less filter media. Not to mention using Honda car filters is nearly universal for all DIYer's when it comes to Honda bikes and oil filter failure has never been cause for any catastrophic engine failure on Hondas.
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Id still take out that auto oil (not enough ZDDP) and get a 10w30 HDEO.
Originally Posted By: Kyonic
What is your thoughts on the pro honda 10w-40 vs the 10w-30 that the manual states you should use. Then again the service manual says to use 10w-40.
I have run the Honda GN4 10W40 and Rotella 10W30 for 8,000 mile OCIs in my Honda ST1100 using automotive filters and I preferred the Rotella 10W30. The 10W30 had low wear metals, a stronger additive package, and the viscosity was higher than the Honda oil at the end of the OCI.
I also run the Rotella 10W30 in my Goldwing.
Rick
What is your thoughts on the pro honda 10w-40 vs the 10w-30 that the manual states you should use. Then again the service manual says to use 10w-40.
I have run the Honda GN4 10W40 and Rotella 10W30 for 8,000 mile OCIs in my Honda ST1100 using automotive filters and I preferred the Rotella 10W30. The 10W30 had low wear metals, a stronger additive package, and the viscosity was higher than the Honda oil at the end of the OCI.
I also run the Rotella 10W30 in my Goldwing.
Rick
Originally Posted By: Robenstein
Id still take out that auto oil (not enough ZDDP) and get a 10w30 HDEO.
One thing too you might want to keep in mind is that the NC700x has a modern car-type catalytic converter similar to the one in a Honda fit but smaller. These are sensitive to excess phosphorus in the ZDDP additive. Which is the whole reason ZDDP has been reduced in modern motor oils. Too much ZDDP can interfere with the performance of the catalytic converter and in the long term can cause its failure. The engines in the NC700x are for all intents and purposes a car engine. And I'm sure if it weren't for the shared sump with the transmission Honda would have spec'd 5w-20 oil which is an excellent oil for cars. But the problem is it's nearly impossible to find that oil as non-energy conserving.
Actually I'm surprised Honda didn't spec 5w-20 non-energy conserving oil. Which would be nearly impossible to find except you know at your local Honda stealer.
Id still take out that auto oil (not enough ZDDP) and get a 10w30 HDEO.
One thing too you might want to keep in mind is that the NC700x has a modern car-type catalytic converter similar to the one in a Honda fit but smaller. These are sensitive to excess phosphorus in the ZDDP additive. Which is the whole reason ZDDP has been reduced in modern motor oils. Too much ZDDP can interfere with the performance of the catalytic converter and in the long term can cause its failure. The engines in the NC700x are for all intents and purposes a car engine. And I'm sure if it weren't for the shared sump with the transmission Honda would have spec'd 5w-20 oil which is an excellent oil for cars. But the problem is it's nearly impossible to find that oil as non-energy conserving.
Actually I'm surprised Honda didn't spec 5w-20 non-energy conserving oil. Which would be nearly impossible to find except you know at your local Honda stealer.
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It (ZDDP) only hurts a catalytic converter if the engine is burning oil. You will find that many HDEO's are dual rated for modern gasoline engines. I would much rather risk hurting an exhaust component way down the road and give my engine and transmission the best wear protection.
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Originally Posted By: qwertydude
Actually the manual just says any API SG or higher except those labeled energy conserving. It doesn't say JASO only. After that it says or JASO T 903 standard MA, or Honda GN4, or an equivalent motorcycle oil. So since it doesn't specify beyond the above options pretty much any oil that satisfies the first requirement of API SG non-energy conserving 10w-30 satisfies the minimum. 15w-40 Rotella has no leg to stand on under the above requirements.
As for the filter, even if the engine were to fail, all I'd have to do is switch out the filter to a Honda motorcycle specific one before turning the bike over for repairs. Until then I'll rather not spend extra for motorcycle specific filters with less filter media. Not to mention using Honda car filters is nearly universal for all DIYer's when it comes to Honda bikes and oil filter failure has never been cause for any catastrophic engine failure on Hondas.
You are aware that motorcycles and automobiles to specify different by-pass pressure settings right. And considering the size of a bikes oil pump compared to a cars oil pump did you think maybe there is less media because the bikes oil pump isn't as strong as a cars,and therefore a cars filter would have too much resistance,thereby impeding oil flow,which in turn works the oil pump harder and potentially starves parts of oil until the oil is hot enough to flow easy.
And lets not forget the difference in by-pass pressure,so do your homework. It could be that the cars filter goes into bypass faster then the bike specific filter,which means unfiltered oil running thru your engine.
But I guess you know all that right.
Originally Posted By: qwertydude
Originally Posted By: Robenstein
Id still take out that auto oil (not enough ZDDP) and get a 10w30 HDEO.
One thing too you might want to keep in mind is that the NC700x has a modern car-type catalytic converter similar to the one in a Honda fit but smaller. These are sensitive to excess phosphorus in the ZDDP additive. Which is the whole reason ZDDP has been reduced in modern motor oils. Too much ZDDP can interfere with the performance of the catalytic converter and in the long term can cause its failure. The engines in the NC700x are for all intents and purposes a car engine. And I'm sure if it weren't for the shared sump with the transmission Honda would have spec'd 5w-20 oil which is an excellent oil for cars. But the problem is it's nearly impossible to find that oil as non-energy conserving.
Actually I'm surprised Honda didn't spec 5w-20 non-energy conserving oil. Which would be nearly impossible to find except you know at your local Honda stealer.
Who cares. You ditch the cat when you buy decent pipes anyways and Robensteins right. I'd rather replace a cat than rebuild or buy a new engine.
Actually the manual just says any API SG or higher except those labeled energy conserving. It doesn't say JASO only. After that it says or JASO T 903 standard MA, or Honda GN4, or an equivalent motorcycle oil. So since it doesn't specify beyond the above options pretty much any oil that satisfies the first requirement of API SG non-energy conserving 10w-30 satisfies the minimum. 15w-40 Rotella has no leg to stand on under the above requirements.
As for the filter, even if the engine were to fail, all I'd have to do is switch out the filter to a Honda motorcycle specific one before turning the bike over for repairs. Until then I'll rather not spend extra for motorcycle specific filters with less filter media. Not to mention using Honda car filters is nearly universal for all DIYer's when it comes to Honda bikes and oil filter failure has never been cause for any catastrophic engine failure on Hondas.
You are aware that motorcycles and automobiles to specify different by-pass pressure settings right. And considering the size of a bikes oil pump compared to a cars oil pump did you think maybe there is less media because the bikes oil pump isn't as strong as a cars,and therefore a cars filter would have too much resistance,thereby impeding oil flow,which in turn works the oil pump harder and potentially starves parts of oil until the oil is hot enough to flow easy.
And lets not forget the difference in by-pass pressure,so do your homework. It could be that the cars filter goes into bypass faster then the bike specific filter,which means unfiltered oil running thru your engine.
But I guess you know all that right.
Originally Posted By: qwertydude
Originally Posted By: Robenstein
Id still take out that auto oil (not enough ZDDP) and get a 10w30 HDEO.
One thing too you might want to keep in mind is that the NC700x has a modern car-type catalytic converter similar to the one in a Honda fit but smaller. These are sensitive to excess phosphorus in the ZDDP additive. Which is the whole reason ZDDP has been reduced in modern motor oils. Too much ZDDP can interfere with the performance of the catalytic converter and in the long term can cause its failure. The engines in the NC700x are for all intents and purposes a car engine. And I'm sure if it weren't for the shared sump with the transmission Honda would have spec'd 5w-20 oil which is an excellent oil for cars. But the problem is it's nearly impossible to find that oil as non-energy conserving.
Actually I'm surprised Honda didn't spec 5w-20 non-energy conserving oil. Which would be nearly impossible to find except you know at your local Honda stealer.
Who cares. You ditch the cat when you buy decent pipes anyways and Robensteins right. I'd rather replace a cat than rebuild or buy a new engine.
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maybe there is less media because the bikes oil pump isn't as strong as a cars
Take a look at what you just said there. Since when is more filter media more restrictive? Anyone with a basic understanding of physics knows when there is a restrictive element in a fluid flow MORE AREA=LESS RESISTANCE.
Not to mention this has been discussed in Honda motorcycle forums to death already. This is not a Honda specific forum but I'm a member of one. Both car and motorcycle. The bypass pressure for Honda motorcycle filters and cars is the same. It's 12-14 psi.
The reason most motorcycle people here are so paranoid about bypass pressure is because they've ridden primarily the most poorly engineered bikes on the planet. Harley Davidson, and have been spreading paranoia because Harley previously used different pump design in their carbed bikes and switched when they went injected. So when people purposely lowered the idle on their injected bikes engine component failure happened. Why? Because of a combination of poor oil flow due to waaay to thick oil, hard bypass pressure and an oil pump not designed to pump at low RPMS. On top of this with the lowered idle they noticed "my oil pressure is low, I need to put straight 50 weight or 60 or special ultra thick oil, that's the solution right there!" All band aid solutions trying to solve a problem they themselves created by trying to make a bike sound cool.
On top of this using too thick an oil will most definitely activate the bypass on cold start up. Thicker oil and less media will therefore more likely on cold days send more crud through the engine on start up where the most wear occurs.
I'm not talking out of my [censored] either. I'm an aerospace engineer and my best friend specialized in tribology for his PhD from MIT.
Honda has very specifically put their specs for a reason. Considering I'm still following it, I have no doubt my engine AND my cat will both outlast my interest in the bike. Honda Fit engines have been running to 100,000 miles+ on non-HDEO oil. I'll trust the Honda engineers put as much thought into this bikes engine and I'd rather not risk cat failure trying to "save" an engine that likely will never need saving if I stick to the manufacturers spec.
maybe there is less media because the bikes oil pump isn't as strong as a cars
Take a look at what you just said there. Since when is more filter media more restrictive? Anyone with a basic understanding of physics knows when there is a restrictive element in a fluid flow MORE AREA=LESS RESISTANCE.
Not to mention this has been discussed in Honda motorcycle forums to death already. This is not a Honda specific forum but I'm a member of one. Both car and motorcycle. The bypass pressure for Honda motorcycle filters and cars is the same. It's 12-14 psi.
The reason most motorcycle people here are so paranoid about bypass pressure is because they've ridden primarily the most poorly engineered bikes on the planet. Harley Davidson, and have been spreading paranoia because Harley previously used different pump design in their carbed bikes and switched when they went injected. So when people purposely lowered the idle on their injected bikes engine component failure happened. Why? Because of a combination of poor oil flow due to waaay to thick oil, hard bypass pressure and an oil pump not designed to pump at low RPMS. On top of this with the lowered idle they noticed "my oil pressure is low, I need to put straight 50 weight or 60 or special ultra thick oil, that's the solution right there!" All band aid solutions trying to solve a problem they themselves created by trying to make a bike sound cool.
On top of this using too thick an oil will most definitely activate the bypass on cold start up. Thicker oil and less media will therefore more likely on cold days send more crud through the engine on start up where the most wear occurs.
I'm not talking out of my [censored] either. I'm an aerospace engineer and my best friend specialized in tribology for his PhD from MIT.
Honda has very specifically put their specs for a reason. Considering I'm still following it, I have no doubt my engine AND my cat will both outlast my interest in the bike. Honda Fit engines have been running to 100,000 miles+ on non-HDEO oil. I'll trust the Honda engineers put as much thought into this bikes engine and I'd rather not risk cat failure trying to "save" an engine that likely will never need saving if I stick to the manufacturers spec.
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Originally Posted By: qwertydude
Actually the manual just says any API SG or higher except those labeled energy conserving. It doesn't say JASO only. After that it says or JASO T 903 standard MA, or Honda GN4, or an equivalent motorcycle oil. So since it doesn't specify beyond the above options pretty much any oil that satisfies the first requirement of API SG non-energy conserving 10w-30 satisfies the minimum. 15w-40 Rotella has no leg to stand on under the above requirements.
As for the filter, even if the engine were to fail, all I'd have to do is switch out the filter to a Honda motorcycle specific one before turning the bike over for repairs. Until then I'll rather not spend extra for motorcycle specific filters with less filter media. Not to mention using Honda car filters is nearly universal for all DIYer's when it comes to Honda bikes and oil filter failure has never been cause for any catastrophic engine failure on Hondas.
And the Honda guys couldn't figue out it was a brand new filter. Or, are you going to run it on another bike first?
Actually the manual just says any API SG or higher except those labeled energy conserving. It doesn't say JASO only. After that it says or JASO T 903 standard MA, or Honda GN4, or an equivalent motorcycle oil. So since it doesn't specify beyond the above options pretty much any oil that satisfies the first requirement of API SG non-energy conserving 10w-30 satisfies the minimum. 15w-40 Rotella has no leg to stand on under the above requirements.
As for the filter, even if the engine were to fail, all I'd have to do is switch out the filter to a Honda motorcycle specific one before turning the bike over for repairs. Until then I'll rather not spend extra for motorcycle specific filters with less filter media. Not to mention using Honda car filters is nearly universal for all DIYer's when it comes to Honda bikes and oil filter failure has never been cause for any catastrophic engine failure on Hondas.
And the Honda guys couldn't figue out it was a brand new filter. Or, are you going to run it on another bike first?
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Bike oil pumps are small, bike engines are small.
Way to drum out the fact you have a PhD. You are not the only one with one on here btw.
And car engines and motorcycle engines....two different things my friend. That Honda fit is not of a unit construction like their bikes which uses one shared oil supply for the engine and transmission.
And car engines and motorcycle engines....two different things my friend. That Honda fit is not of a unit construction like their bikes which uses one shared oil supply for the engine and transmission.
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Yes I realize it's a unit construction with gears that can shear oil.
But look at the available oils and their specs, you want to talk tribology?
Here's some facts 15w-40 is out of spec for this engine. Period it makes even less sense to use that oil so people shouldn't even be pushing this as the "best" oil for this engine.
So what are your other choices? 10w-40 (still out of spec) and 10w-30. Which oil do you think will suffer more shear? It takes more viscosity index improver to make 10w-40 than to make 10w-30. So in essence that 10w-40 will shear down pretty quickly to 10w-30 which is pretty stable as an oil which is why it continues its popularity. 10w-30 doesn't tend to shear down to 10w-20 unless you're running it in some extreme pressure hypoid gearbox of some sort, not happening in this engine/gearbox. So even the shared sump doesn't make a bit of difference in the logic of trying to use a thicker oil.
As for HDEO oil, use it if you want, but even though people claim the phosphate is not a problem at high ZDDP levels, it still will reduce the effectiveness of the cat long term, you don't need to consume tons of oil to see a reduction in effectiveness. Long term it happens and the more ZDDP the more it compromises the effectiveness. I don't plan on pulling the cat changing the exhaust and tuning blubbering rich. So I'd rather have a well working smog system to help keep the bike clean because I like clean air and don't want to contribute to pollution if I can help it. You may think it's no big deal, but it's a hypocritical position to hold to say screw the cat if you also recycle your oil and poo poo those who dump it down the drain.
Not to mention Honda has approved API SG AND higher, so I'm still good and above a certain threshold extra ZDDP doesn't significantly improve wear. So keep your oil changed within specs and wear ought to be minimal with the added benefit of minimal risk to the cat.
As for putting on a new filter, Honda would not go through so much trouble to try and prove an oil filter is new or not and it wouldn't matter anyways, if it was new what's to say it wasn't just recently changed and the engine failed because of another unrelated problem, especially since the oil filter is almost positively not going to be the point of failure. Unless the engine can be proven to have failed specifically because of the oil filter it wouldn't matter one bit and again using Honda car oil filters is common practice and has yet to result in engine failures among the bikes that use them, ie CBR's, Goldwings, VTX.
In fact those stupid show chrome after market filters come in the same size and likely aren't even built to as good a spec as the car filters which do work and have a properly set bypass valve that's the same as the motorcycle ones. I've taken apart Honda motorcycle filters and car filters, measured the orifice area and measured spring tension. Same pressure between the two of about 12 psi when you calculate it out.
But look at the available oils and their specs, you want to talk tribology?
Here's some facts 15w-40 is out of spec for this engine. Period it makes even less sense to use that oil so people shouldn't even be pushing this as the "best" oil for this engine.
So what are your other choices? 10w-40 (still out of spec) and 10w-30. Which oil do you think will suffer more shear? It takes more viscosity index improver to make 10w-40 than to make 10w-30. So in essence that 10w-40 will shear down pretty quickly to 10w-30 which is pretty stable as an oil which is why it continues its popularity. 10w-30 doesn't tend to shear down to 10w-20 unless you're running it in some extreme pressure hypoid gearbox of some sort, not happening in this engine/gearbox. So even the shared sump doesn't make a bit of difference in the logic of trying to use a thicker oil.
As for HDEO oil, use it if you want, but even though people claim the phosphate is not a problem at high ZDDP levels, it still will reduce the effectiveness of the cat long term, you don't need to consume tons of oil to see a reduction in effectiveness. Long term it happens and the more ZDDP the more it compromises the effectiveness. I don't plan on pulling the cat changing the exhaust and tuning blubbering rich. So I'd rather have a well working smog system to help keep the bike clean because I like clean air and don't want to contribute to pollution if I can help it. You may think it's no big deal, but it's a hypocritical position to hold to say screw the cat if you also recycle your oil and poo poo those who dump it down the drain.
Not to mention Honda has approved API SG AND higher, so I'm still good and above a certain threshold extra ZDDP doesn't significantly improve wear. So keep your oil changed within specs and wear ought to be minimal with the added benefit of minimal risk to the cat.
As for putting on a new filter, Honda would not go through so much trouble to try and prove an oil filter is new or not and it wouldn't matter anyways, if it was new what's to say it wasn't just recently changed and the engine failed because of another unrelated problem, especially since the oil filter is almost positively not going to be the point of failure. Unless the engine can be proven to have failed specifically because of the oil filter it wouldn't matter one bit and again using Honda car oil filters is common practice and has yet to result in engine failures among the bikes that use them, ie CBR's, Goldwings, VTX.
In fact those stupid show chrome after market filters come in the same size and likely aren't even built to as good a spec as the car filters which do work and have a properly set bypass valve that's the same as the motorcycle ones. I've taken apart Honda motorcycle filters and car filters, measured the orifice area and measured spring tension. Same pressure between the two of about 12 psi when you calculate it out.
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I think everyone on here is over thinking the whole thing.
Buy the OEM filter (at my Honda dealership its only $6.29 )
Then buy any MOTORCYCLE oil in the proper viscosity.
Your engine will out live your grand kids.
Buy the OEM filter (at my Honda dealership its only $6.29 )
Then buy any MOTORCYCLE oil in the proper viscosity.
Your engine will out live your grand kids.
Came across this thread as an NC700X owner and there is a lot of WRONG information that may mislead some people. Both 10w30 and 10w40 are specified in the Honda service manual. The user manual is incomplete. The vast majority of Honda dealerships use bulk 10w40 for ALL their oil changes. 10w30 is recommended for emissions and economy reasons, just like cars. Around 2006 or so Honda changed the oil grade instantly on all their bikes and have back-specified 10w30. No harm at all in using it of course, but also no harm in 10w40. On the NC700 forum there are a ton of Blackstone lab reports showing 10w40 which is sheared down to a 30 weight after 4k miles. At 8k with a 10w40 you are in the very bottom end of the 30 weight range. If you were using a 10w30 you'd be well into the 20 weight range. Not the best for most warmer climates. The 8k interval is pretty extreme and the lab reports have shown that consistently. The Rotella T5 10w30 has Energy Conserving written all over it and is NOT recommended. Rotella T6 5w40 and 15w40 are both JASO-MA approved and acceptable. There is no problem running 15w40 as long as 10w40 is listed. I am a mod on the NC forum and the most popular oil weights used is T6 and 15w40, and both have shown stellar results. Also, the "half a Honda Fit" car engine is completely false. An engineer made a quote that was taken out of context and spread like wildfire all over the web. We have members that have gone through the parts fiche extensively and found very few parts that match.
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I own an NC750SA (the naked version that the US doesn't get), and I use a Penrite car oil in mine, a 5w30 JASO MA approved full synthetic, with a Honda filter. The oil is half the price of the genuine Honda stuff. Doesn't use a drop, gear shift quality is excellent, I'm happy!
Honda's use a 20x1.5mm filter almost universally. I prefer the wix wl10000 or the 51365. The wl10000 is the honda specific motorcycle filter. The 51365 is used in many applications from cars to outboards to motorcycles, and farm equipment. I prefer the WIx filters because of the bypass design and coil spring as opposed to a leaf spring.
In terms of oil I would use a 40 weight particulrly if you plan on doing 8,000 mile oci's. If you want to use a non-energy conserving 10w-30 I would go with rotella 10w-30. It's a very stout oil that is not rated as energy conserving. It's also not Jaso MA rated like the 5-40 and 15-40 though.
Just for the sake of argument I use either the Rotella 5-40 or the 15-40 and add 2 ounces of redline zddp additive(break-in) to 4 quarts of oil. And this goes in my 2003 Honda vfr800 interceptor;12,000 redline. I find that the zddp additive does make the shifting a little smoother for a longer period of time.
In terms of oil I would use a 40 weight particulrly if you plan on doing 8,000 mile oci's. If you want to use a non-energy conserving 10w-30 I would go with rotella 10w-30. It's a very stout oil that is not rated as energy conserving. It's also not Jaso MA rated like the 5-40 and 15-40 though.
Just for the sake of argument I use either the Rotella 5-40 or the 15-40 and add 2 ounces of redline zddp additive(break-in) to 4 quarts of oil. And this goes in my 2003 Honda vfr800 interceptor;12,000 redline. I find that the zddp additive does make the shifting a little smoother for a longer period of time.
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Originally Posted By: 29662
I would go with rotella 10w-30. It's a very stout oil that is not rated as energy conserving. It's also not Jaso MA rated like the 5-40 and 15-40 though.
I emailed Shell about this and they said that although they hadn't submitted the 10w30 for JASO MA that it would meet standard. They also gave me their usual statement that they didn't recommend any rotella in anything equipped with a cat. I know a lot of people use it anyway (including me) and I'm not hearing of any cat failures.
I would go with rotella 10w-30. It's a very stout oil that is not rated as energy conserving. It's also not Jaso MA rated like the 5-40 and 15-40 though.
I emailed Shell about this and they said that although they hadn't submitted the 10w30 for JASO MA that it would meet standard. They also gave me their usual statement that they didn't recommend any rotella in anything equipped with a cat. I know a lot of people use it anyway (including me) and I'm not hearing of any cat failures.
Originally Posted By: judsonj
Originally Posted By: 29662
I would go with rotella 10w-30. It's a very stout oil that is not rated as energy conserving. It's also not Jaso MA rated like the 5-40 and 15-40 though.
I emailed Shell about this and they said that although they hadn't submitted the 10w30 for JASO MA that it would meet standard. They also gave me their usual statement that they didn't recommend any rotella in anything equipped with a cat. I know a lot of people use it anyway (including me) and I'm not hearing of any cat failures.
Yeah that's typical lawyer speak so they can cover their derrier. My bike has a CAT and I use Rotella in it all the time with additional amounts of ZDDP added. And I haven't had any problems. Nor have I ever heard of anyone having any problems with their CAT who uses Rotella so I think it's a non-issue.
Originally Posted By: 29662
I would go with rotella 10w-30. It's a very stout oil that is not rated as energy conserving. It's also not Jaso MA rated like the 5-40 and 15-40 though.
I emailed Shell about this and they said that although they hadn't submitted the 10w30 for JASO MA that it would meet standard. They also gave me their usual statement that they didn't recommend any rotella in anything equipped with a cat. I know a lot of people use it anyway (including me) and I'm not hearing of any cat failures.
Yeah that's typical lawyer speak so they can cover their derrier. My bike has a CAT and I use Rotella in it all the time with additional amounts of ZDDP added. And I haven't had any problems. Nor have I ever heard of anyone having any problems with their CAT who uses Rotella so I think it's a non-issue.
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