Shell Helix AF oil for ford: HX7 vs Ultra

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Originally Posted By: Shannow
What is your definition of the best ?

Even "best" is application specific, as if I had to start my car at -40C a couple of time per year versus -10C a couple of times per year, our "bests" will vary.

Because the best for either of our applications is an optimised compromise based on operating parameters.


Hi Shannow

I guess I'm hoping to cross paths with a well informed oil sommelier who has a strong recommendation/recommendations based upon their expert knowledge of engine oil!
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I've never yet set foot in London, so I guess that I'm out of contention.

Hope that the remaining contenders satisfy.
 
Not relevant to an engine. I don't know many engines that just boil oil at 350-400C in glass with no rubbinbt surfaces.

913D has been tested in ford engines and proven. VW504 507 has primarily been tested in diesel VW engines and really offers little linkage to Ford hardware.

For example Ford 913D requires a much higher TBN level, ideal for gasolines and also a timing chain wear test based on ford chains. Really the numbers on a PDS become irrelevant when you factor in the requirements of OEM specifications plus the fact these oils are factory fill and have completed thousands and thousands of hours on Ford durability tests and ford themselves recommend the oil (due to both commercial and technical factors)

You could of course go for an oil without these credentials and instead get one with a VI that's higher, has the word ester on the bottle and a lower pour point...
 
Originally Posted By: Grace_Jones
I'm just looking for the best. With a VW spec oil (504.00/507.00 aka prosche C30) there are loads of choices, whereas trying to find a true fully synthetic (or even ester synthetic) with the ford specs (913C or 913D) is difficult as there dont seem to be many.


How about this definition of "best" - the best oil is the one that is recommended and approved by the manufacturer. I am not saying this means it is the lowest pour point, highest flash point, lowest Noack or nicest odour, but that the OEM is convinced enough to recommend this oil.

If you don't go with that, then maybe the best oil is the one that meets the OEM's specification closest. Well, since we don't get access to specification test results, we have to be guided by the presence (or absence) of the specification on the oil's label or data sheet. The whole point of specifications and approvals is to avoid the need for individuals to try and work out for themselves which oil might be suitable (or not).

As you have stated (and bobbydavro has endorsed), 913-D is the latest spec for this engine type. It contains 11 physical/chemical tests, 3 corrosion/oxidation tests and 9 engine tests (comprising a total 28 different examination parameters). It covers wear, corrosion, sludge, piston deposits, TBN retention, varnish, oil consumption and other demands. Any formulator who has successfully navigated this minefield and achieved an oil which passes all of the tests will certainly have made sure VI and pour point were appropriate to the application.

There is no way for an enthusiastic amateur (no offence to any reader intended) to know how VI, HTHS, pour point, MRV or any other parameter will affect a given engine. In truth even professionals wrestle with sometimes fickle engine tests and their capricious appetites. For every opinion you get, there will be a counter-opinion, then a debate, then another option, then an agreement with the first one, then some anecdotal 'evidence' and finally no consensus at all. When you are choosing between decent oils you are unlikely to go far wrong so pick one that meets your needs and enjoy the rest of the day!
 
Please don't get hung up on my choice of words. I'll happily substitute "good" for "best". So to rephrase it; I want a good oil!?

Does anybody have any GOOD A5/B5 5w-30 recommendations?
 
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Originally Posted By: weasley
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
It is an index calculated from the 40C and 100C visc numbers. It doesn't correlate to actual viscosity below 0C however.


I know what it is and how it is calculated. It is perfectly fine to extrapolate some way above and below the 100°C and 40°C data points (contrary to what Jetronic [sort of] stated), as well as interpolating between them. The point at which the correlation strays from the reality is not defined and depends on the specific fluid in question.


I agree. It is the below 0C part that is generally accepted as being wrong.
 
Originally Posted By: Grace_Jones
Please don't get hung up on my choice of words. I'll happily substitute "good" for "best". So to rephrase it; I want a good oil!?

Does anybody have any GOOD A5/B5 5w-30 recommendations?


I think you missed his point. The best depends on application rather than oil.

Best for a Ford. Probably the oil Ford use when they build the car and is tested as above.

Alternatively get something 'cool' as it seems image is important here. Maybe some 'purple ester with nanodrive polyester Diester race pro oil'
 
Originally Posted By: bobbydavro
Originally Posted By: Grace_Jones
Please don't get hung up on my choice of words. I'll happily substitute "good" for "best". So to rephrase it; I want a good oil!?

Does anybody have any GOOD A5/B5 5w-30 recommendations?


I think you missed his point. The best depends on application rather than oil.

Best for a Ford. Probably the oil Ford use when they build the car and is tested as above.

Alternatively get something 'cool' as it seems image is important here. Maybe some 'purple ester with nanodrive polyester Diester race pro oil'


Bobbydavro I couldn't give two hoots about "something cool" as you put it.

I only ask because the engine is a NOT a ford engine, it's a Mazda engine. Ford Duratec HE = Mazda MZR L8. Google it if you don't believe me.

I just wanted to know what different options were best for this engine...?

If your more interested in picking holes you needn't respond. There's no obligation to help me!
 
You are getting some good advice here. Bobbydavro has some extremely impressive knowledge.

My recommendations are as follows. Any A5/B5 5w-30 of a brand you trust would be a very good choice. If I were required to pick one here in Canada, it would probably be M1 or Castrol Syntec or Pennzoil Platinum, the last of which, as you are already aware, isn't marketed as such outside of North America.
 
Thanks Garak. I'll begin the hunt for a reasonably priced A5/B5.

I guess I was expecting a particular brand to be 'well known/respected' or a particular A5/B5 oil to be leading the market. If they're all much alike without many distinguishable differences then I'm probably going to go for Shell / Liqui Moly / Mobil ...or maybe Fuchs.
 
Originally Posted By: bobbydavro
You live in the UK. Why does fresh oil pour point and MRV concern you. It's never below -10C.



I ask myself the same question every time Murricans are debating about using 0Wxx oils in California...Texas...Florida etc etc
smile.gif
 
No problem. I don't think you'll find any significant differences between any brands of similar specifications, particularly when you get into something like A5/B5 (which is beyond SN/GF-5), especially under normal usage. The only time you'd really have to pick nits, perhaps, is if you were trying to extend the OCIs to the longest possible and wanted to do so by trended UOA and comparing brands - which would take forever and a day. Any of the brands you list should have a fine A5/B5 lube.
 
Sorry my long oil name was a joke based on many UK forums and oil and speil. I'm surprised you haven't seen it before. Anyway on his website: http://www.opieoils.co.uk/c-803-acea-a5b5.aspx

Take your pic from there - that's a search for A5/B5 but some odd results do come up like Mobil 1 ESP which has a TBN below 8 and HTHS above 3.5 so can't official meet A5/B5

For some reason unbeknown to me Magnatec A1 also carries A5/B5.

You want an oil with 2.9cP HTHS (So avoid the C3 oils) and if want lower MRV and PP check out the 0W-30s.

Mazda L series is still specifying ford oils in ford cars.
 
Hi Grace Jones,
I would choose oil with Ford's 913D specification that is easiest to find where you live.
If your goal is to prolong engine life to its maximum think about shortening oil changes intervals on your car. Top quality oil and air filter would be a smart idea.
MANN and Mahle/Knecht are considered to be top quality.
Premium fuel is very important for engine live so avoid supermarket fuel.
 
Originally Posted By: Grace_Jones
Thanks Garak. I'll begin the hunt for a reasonably priced A5/B5.

I guess I was expecting a particular brand to be 'well known/respected' or a particular A5/B5 oil to be leading the market. If they're all much alike without many distinguishable differences then I'm probably going to go for Shell / Liqui Moly / Mobil ...or maybe Fuchs.


Grace

The point here IMO is to use the OEM recommended grade and OEM approved oil, as an A5/B5 approved oil may not be the preferred to covers all possible applications of use.

BITOG can provide and offer opinions but it is ultimately the OEM that can recommend the oil that is most suitable for the vehicle in question.

BITOG is overrated if it is held in higher esteem that the OEM.
 
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why is no HTHS rating given for this oil:
Shell Helix Ultra professional AF 5w-30

?? anyone know what the HTHS is for it?
 
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