Quicksilver 20w-50 or VR1 for 2011 Harley 103ci?

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Originally Posted By: dr2152
Originally Posted By: alarmguy
Originally Posted By: dr2152
Originally Posted By: alarmguy
Lets clarify a few things here, some non harley people are posting, all that is fine but to not confuse anyone...
1. Harley Davidson does not recommend ANY Jaso rated oil. Harley recommends for their engines API CH or higher oil in their new bikes.
2. After a quick search Indian requires an API SM oil, no mention of Jaso.
3. Most metric bikes require Jaso.
4. All the above as far as Harley goes is for engine oil. For the primary I would use Harley products or to be safe something stating its meets Jaso MA or MA2 and Jaso does set the standard for oil friction requirements for wet clutches.
5. Jaso rated oil can be any weight oil that meets Jaso standards much like API oil.
6. The Jaso standard is just something to make you feel safe if in doubt and concerned about a wet clutch, however interestingly I do not THINK Indian states anything but API SM.


Yes they say to use a C rated diesel if HD 360 oil is not available. They also state to change back at the first opportunity to 100 percent HD oil. Only use non HD C rated oil until you get to a dealer to get HD oil. HD primary oil is a 20-50 oil. After market 20-50 oils are fine. HD transmission is a 20-50 oil. Gear oil is a 20-50 oil. So using a gear oil is fine.
Harley only recommends Dunlop HD tires. Will you only run HD tires?


You confirmed in the owners Harley says API C oil is fine, not sure what the conversation is about. Of course they think their oil is best but still still you that API C rating, like Indian gives you that API SM.
I don't disagree with the Primary or Transmission oils being 20/50 since Harley uses that grade.
Using GL5 gear oil is not even close to GL1 which is what motoroil is. GL5 gear lube can be corrosive and it can also affect oil seals. I don't care what the maker of the bike is, why would someone choose a totally different fluid then what is recommended. Maybe that's why Harley got a reputation for oils leaks, people putting in gear lube.

Tires? Your not serious. But to answer your question, I will use the tire size stated for the bike, just like I will use the viscosity oil recommended for the engine.


HD 360 is not a C rated oil. The old HD oil leaks were from the engine not the transmission. GL5 is a 20-50 oil and some are corrosive to yellow metals. Big Twins do not have yellow metals.


Correct HD 360 does not list any API rating, so HD says if you don't use their oil use a API C rated.
Correct again, GL5 is a gear oil, yet Harley and just about every motorcycle maker uses GL1 motor oil in their transmissions, yellow metals or not should tell people something.
Will it make a difference? Most likely not, but one might want to question why do it,
 
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So if your happy buying cheap 50 wt oil at Harley's inflated prices, just think how much better your bike will run with gear oil in a transmission that has, oh I don't know, "GEARS" in it!. When you get tired of your bike banging into first gear, clanking and whining you'll be on here asking what everybody uses to quiet it down. And can you guess what you'll be told?.,,
 
Originally Posted By: BigCahuna
When you get tired of your bike banging into first gear, clanking and whining you'll be on here asking what everybody uses to quiet it down.


I apologize in advance for the digress, but since you guys are talking about it, I'm more and more convinced there is something afoul in the HD stable of trans oils, there's a stinker in there somewhere and I'd love to determine which one it is. I was riding with my brother over the weekend, he has a stock Heritage softail, and has the dealer do all his oil changes and keeps on schedule so he's got some sort HD recommended tranny lube in there. But talk about "banging into first gear"..............holy moly that thing sounds like it's gonna come apart every time he goes from neutral to first. Truly makes me cringe. My point being (again I digress, sorry)obviously there's lubes out there that suck. I've never heard any HD sound like it was going to bang first gear right out of the cases when it had a non-HD lube in there. Weird.

FWIW I love investigating oils such as what the OP listed, good on ya for the open mind.
 
You can adjust the clutch till the cows come home and it will still bang into gear using Harley's trans oil.It seems the hotter the temperature is, the louder it gets.I have found 2 minor things will make a world of difference. 1. Run Rotella t 15/40 wt oil or 10/40 wt in the primary. My experience is, the recommended 20/50 wt oil creates too much drag on the clutch discs. It behaves like your trying to shift without using the clutch. 2, gear oil in the trans creates a better cushion between the gears, so they don't clunk together. And will help muffle the whine you get with Harley's 6 speed transmission. If your dead set on using nothing but Harley's recommended oils, your gonna just have to get used to the annoyance.,,
 
Originally Posted By: BigCahuna
So if your happy buying cheap 50 wt oil at Harley's inflated prices, just think how much better your bike will run with gear oil in a transmission that has, oh I don't know, "GEARS" in it!. When you get tired of your bike banging into first gear, clanking and whining you'll be on here asking what everybody uses to quiet it down. And can you guess what you'll be told?.,,


Just giving people information based on facts so they can make up their own minds. Do you honestly believe that motorcycle makers and most automobile makers use (GL1) motor oil in their transmissions because of cost? of course not.

Do you know Mobile and Amsoil (and all the motorcycle makers in the world) recommend motor oil in the motorcycle transmissions over gear oil? (I am sure someone someplace makes a transmission where they recommend differential gear lube over oil, not that I know who)

You seem to have an ax to grind with Harley, yet we are talking about ALL makes, not just Harley.
I honestly dont care what anyone uses but there is sooooo much misinformation and misguided thinking on this subject. Yet, all the manufacturers and even some of the most famous oil companies in the world say the same thing, GL1 motoroil is best.

Will it matter? Most likely not but is someone doing something better for the bike using a fluid not recommended because they think they know better then the bike maker or the oil companies? Nope.
 
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Originally Posted By: MoreCowbellAz
Originally Posted By: BigCahuna
When you get tired of your bike banging into first gear, clanking and whining you'll be on here asking what everybody uses to quiet it down.


I apologize in advance for the digress, but since you guys are talking about it, I'm more and more convinced there is something afoul in the HD stable of trans oils, there's a stinker in there somewhere and I'd love to determine which one it is. I was riding with my brother over the weekend, he has a stock Heritage softail, and has the dealer do all his oil changes and keeps on schedule so he's got some sort HD recommended tranny lube in there. But talk about "banging into first gear"..............holy moly that thing sounds like it's gonna come apart every time he goes from neutral to first. Truly makes me cringe. My point being (again I digress, sorry)obviously there's lubes out there that suck. I've never heard any HD sound like it was going to bang first gear right out of the cases when it had a non-HD lube in there. Weird.

FWIW I love investigating oils such as what the OP listed, good on ya for the open mind.

Sounds like your friend has a problem and he should take the bike in to get looked at, Im sure there is something wrong with it, unless he purchased it with that sound. What some might think is a bad sound, is normal.

BTW, ... if its an old bike and non repairable or he doesnt care to repair it, just go throw in some heavy "shockproof) ../145 gear oil that will quiet it down. You can quiet anything mechanical down by using a heavy fluid, me, I would get it repaired OR the sound you hear is normal for that model bike.
 
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Originally Posted By: BigCahuna
You can adjust the clutch till the cows come home and it will still bang into gear using Harley's trans oil.It seems the hotter the temperature is, the louder it gets.I have found 2 minor things will make a world of difference. 1. Run Rotella t 15/40 wt oil or 10/40 wt in the primary. My experience is, the recommended 20/50 wt oil creates too much drag on the clutch discs. It behaves like your trying to shift without using the clutch. 2, gear oil in the trans creates a better cushion between the gears, so they don't clunk together. And will help muffle the whine you get with Harley's 6 speed transmission. If your dead set on using nothing but Harley's recommended oils, your gonna just have to get used to the annoyance.,,


I agree that you will always have some sort of clunk. But banging it into gear and having it sound like it wants to come apart isn't normal. The clutch may need adjusting, maybe a thinner primary fluid, adjust the chain, etc. I also agree with running a thinner fluid like Rotella 15/40 because that's what I have in mine. Heavier weight fluid and cold starts can create clutch drag. Does it improve when it's warmed up? I'm also running a Hayden M6 automatic chain adjuster. He may also want to try a different technique when shifting. Just google "Harley tranny clunk". Now, I have an Evo with a 5 speed. Things maybe different with a 6 speed tranny.
 
Originally Posted By: alarmguy
Originally Posted By: BigCahuna
So if your happy buying cheap 50 wt oil at Harley's inflated prices, just think how much better your bike will run with gear oil in a transmission that has, oh I don't know, "GEARS" in it!. When you get tired of your bike banging into first gear, clanking and whining you'll be on here asking what everybody uses to quiet it down. And can you guess what you'll be told?.,,


Just giving people information based on facts so they can make up their own minds. Do you honestly believe that motorcycle makers and most automobile makers use (GL1) motor oil in their transmissions because of cost? of course not.

Do you know Mobile and Amsoil (and all the motorcycle makers in the world) recommend motor oil in the motorcycle transmissions over gear oil? (I am sure someone someplace makes a transmission where they recommend differential gear lube over oil, not that I know who)

You seem to have an ax to grind with Harley, yet we are talking about ALL makes, not just Harley.
I honestly dont care what anyone uses but there is sooooo much misinformation and misguided thinking on this subject. Yet, all the manufacturers and even some of the most famous oil companies in the world say the same thing, GL1 motoroil is best.

Will it matter? Most likely not but is someone doing something better for the bike using a fluid not recommended because they think they know better then the bike maker or the oil companies? Nope.
Your "facts" are straight out of the Harley playbook. I understand your new to Harley's and really want to believe they know best. But if your take the time to read more then just what they tell you, you will be a happier Harley owner.As far as using gl-1 oil being the best, of course it's not. It's the bear minimum they can get away with, that barely works. Just about any oil maker will recommend their brand of oil and say it works best. Is that something new to you? Let me describe how it goes. After a while you will get tired of the 1st gear bang and difficulty finding first gear, and the whine. So you bring it back to the dealer under warranty. They look at it and tell you it's fine, "they all do that". Then you decide to try other options. You don't believe there's nothing that can be done to remedy it. Then you read more and try different products that cure what you have. At that point you will have an epiffany. You realize that that Harley has been selling a bill of goods. Their stuff isn't the best and you have to go outside the sacred black and orange arches to solve your problem. Have you wondered why Harley doesn't recommend motorcycle oils made by other company's like Amsoil, or Valvoline that say their oil meets or exceeds Harley's spec's? But they recommend a diesel truck oil? Harley's only interest is to get every possible penny out of your wallet. And use scare tactics about oil to cover that area.It seems to work on alot of new bike owners, you included. Have you ever heard of a car company state you have to use their brand of oil only?.,,
 
Originally Posted By: alarmguy
Originally Posted By: BigCahuna
So if your happy buying cheap 50 wt oil at Harley's inflated prices, just think how much better your bike will run with gear oil in a transmission that has, oh I don't know, "GEARS" in it!. When you get tired of your bike banging into first gear, clanking and whining you'll be on here asking what everybody uses to quiet it down. And can you guess what you'll be told?.,,


Just giving people information based on facts so they can make up their own minds. Do you honestly believe that motorcycle makers and most automobile makers use (GL1) motor oil in their transmissions because of cost? of course not.

Do you know Mobile and Amsoil (and all the motorcycle makers in the world) recommend motor oil in the motorcycle transmissions over gear oil? (I am sure someone someplace makes a transmission where they recommend differential gear lube over oil, not that I know who)

You seem to have an ax to grind with Harley, yet we are talking about ALL makes, not just Harley.
I honestly dont care what anyone uses but there is sooooo much misinformation and misguided thinking on this subject. Yet, all the manufacturers and even some of the most famous oil companies in the world say the same thing, GL1 motoroil is best.

Will it matter? Most likely not but is someone doing something better for the bike using a fluid not recommended because they think they know better then the bike maker or the oil companies? Nope.


GL1 is the lowest rated oil that protects the primary and transmission. Not the only one. If your transmission is making noise the dealer will upgrade (for more money) to a 75-90 gear lube.

Mobile 1 and Amsoil sell gear lube that they recommend over their 20-50 oil for Harley transmissions. Their 20-50 will meet Harley warranty requiments.

Read the last sentence from Harley: Its doesn't say to run C rated oils for 5000 miles.
If it is necessary to add oil and Harley-Davidson oil is not available, use an oil certified for diesel engines. Acceptable diesel engine oil designations include: SH, CH-4, CI-4 and CJ-4.
The preferred viscosities for the diesel engine oils in descending order are: 20W50, 15W40 and 10W40.
At the first opportunity, see an authorized dealer to change back to 100 percent Harley-Davidson oil.

Harley oils are fine. So are the others and probably better.

I asked you if you would only use Harley recommend tires and you said no. Doesn't the manufacture know what's best when it comes to tires? That's what you say about oils.
 
Originally Posted By: dr2152
Originally Posted By: alarmguy
Originally Posted By: BigCahuna
So if your happy buying cheap 50 wt oil at Harley's inflated prices, just think how much better your bike will run with gear oil in a transmission that has, oh I don't know, "GEARS" in it!. When you get tired of your bike banging into first gear, clanking and whining you'll be on here asking what everybody uses to quiet it down. And can you guess what you'll be told?.,,


Just giving people information based on facts so they can make up their own minds. Do you honestly believe that motorcycle makers and most automobile makers use (GL1) motor oil in their transmissions because of cost? of course not.

Do you know Mobile and Amsoil (and all the motorcycle makers in the world) recommend motor oil in the motorcycle transmissions over gear oil? (I am sure someone someplace makes a transmission where they recommend differential gear lube over oil, not that I know who)

You seem to have an ax to grind with Harley, yet we are talking about ALL makes, not just Harley.
I honestly dont care what anyone uses but there is sooooo much misinformation and misguided thinking on this subject. Yet, all the manufacturers and even some of the most famous oil companies in the world say the same thing, GL1 motoroil is best.

Will it matter? Most likely not but is someone doing something better for the bike using a fluid not recommended because they think they know better then the bike maker or the oil companies? Nope.


GL1 is the lowest rated oil that protects the primary and transmission. Not the only one. If your transmission is making noise the dealer will upgrade (for more money) to a 75-90 gear lube.

Mobile 1 and Amsoil sell gear lube that they recommend over their 20-50 oil for Harley transmissions. Their 20-50 will meet Harley warranty requiments.

Read the last sentence from Harley: Its doesn't say to run C rated oils for 5000 miles.
If it is necessary to add oil and Harley-Davidson oil is not available, use an oil certified for diesel engines. Acceptable diesel engine oil designations include: SH, CH-4, CI-4 and CJ-4.
The preferred viscosities for the diesel engine oils in descending order are: 20W50, 15W40 and 10W40.
At the first opportunity, see an authorized dealer to change back to 100 percent Harley-Davidson oil.

Harley oils are fine. So are the others and probably better.

I asked you if you would only use Harley recommend tires and you said no. Doesn't the manufacture know what's best when it comes to tires? That's what you say about oils.


Yes, if you reread my post as far as tires, just like oil. I stated I would use the recommended tire size no matter the brand, just like oil.
You are incorrect as far as what Amsoil and Mobile recommends for the Harley transmission, I stated it correctly .. Here is Amsoil. Amsoil Motorcycle recommendations
No gear oil recommended across all Harley products.
 
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Originally Posted By: alarmguy
Originally Posted By: dr2152
Originally Posted By: alarmguy
Originally Posted By: BigCahuna
So if your happy buying cheap 50 wt oil at Harley's inflated prices, just think how much better your bike will run with gear oil in a transmission that has, oh I don't know, "GEARS" in it!. When you get tired of your bike banging into first gear, clanking and whining you'll be on here asking what everybody uses to quiet it down. And can you guess what you'll be told?.,,


Just giving people information based on facts so they can make up their own minds. Do you honestly believe that motorcycle makers and most automobile makers use (GL1) motor oil in their transmissions because of cost? of course not.

Do you know Mobile and Amsoil (and all the motorcycle makers in the world) recommend motor oil in the motorcycle transmissions over gear oil? (I am sure someone someplace makes a transmission where they recommend differential gear lube over oil, not that I know who)

You seem to have an ax to grind with Harley, yet we are talking about ALL makes, not just Harley.
I honestly dont care what anyone uses but there is sooooo much misinformation and misguided thinking on this subject. Yet, all the manufacturers and even some of the most famous oil companies in the world say the same thing, GL1 motoroil is best.

Will it matter? Most likely not but is someone doing something better for the bike using a fluid not recommended because they think they know better then the bike maker or the oil companies? Nope.


GL1 is the lowest rated oil that protects the primary and transmission. Not the only one. If your transmission is making noise the dealer will upgrade (for more money) to a 75-90 gear lube.

Mobile 1 and Amsoil sell gear lube that they recommend over their 20-50 oil for Harley transmissions. Their 20-50 will meet Harley warranty requiments.

Read the last sentence from Harley: Its doesn't say to run C rated oils for 5000 miles.
If it is necessary to add oil and Harley-Davidson oil is not available, use an oil certified for diesel engines. Acceptable diesel engine oil designations include: SH, CH-4, CI-4 and CJ-4.
The preferred viscosities for the diesel engine oils in descending order are: 20W50, 15W40 and 10W40.
At the first opportunity, see an authorized dealer to change back to 100 percent Harley-Davidson oil.

Harley oils are fine. So are the others and probably better.

I asked you if you would only use Harley recommend tires and you said no. Doesn't the manufacture know what's best when it comes to tires? That's what you say about oils.


Yes, if you reread my post as far as tires, just like oil. I stated I would use the recommended tire size no matter the brand, just like oil.
You are incorrect as far as what Amsoil and Mobile recommends for the Harley transmission, I stated it correctly .. Here is Amsoil. Amsoil Motorcycle recommendations
No gear oil recommended across all Harley products.

I asked if you would only use HD recommended tires. Which is only one model of Dunlop.
Here is Amsoil for my bike.
http://www.amsoil.com/AmsoilGarage/MotoL...%20Limited+1690

http://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-product/mo.../?code=MVTQT-EA
 
And I replied the same as I did with oil regarding tires and thanks for confirming that GL5 gear lube is not recommended for Harley's or any bike. But if it cures someone's issue and works for them, good.
BTW, if i was to use a high end oil, I would choose Amsoil over any other "Boutique Oil" good stuff and they prove it. Something I have always said and they do make a C diesel oil rated 20/50 that also mentions motorcycles as well.

This was a good thread without people getting crazy, I think! Some people might get some good info to research for themselves in here.
 
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[/quote]
GL1 is the lowest rated oil that protects the primary and transmission. Not the only one. If your transmission is making noise the dealer will upgrade (for more money) to a 75-90 gear lube. Mobile 1 and Amsoil sell gear lube that they recommend over their 20-50 oil for Harley transmissions. Their 20-50 will meet Harley warranty requiments.
Read the last sentence from Harley: Its doesn't say to run C rated oils for 5000 miles.
If it is necessary to add oil and Harley-Davidson oil is not available, use an oil certified for diesel engines. Acceptable diesel engine oil designations include: SH, CH-4, CI-4 and CJ-4. The preferred viscosities for the diesel engine oils in descending order are: 20W50, 15W40 and 10W40. At the first opportunity, see an authorized dealer to change back to 100 percent Harley-Davidson oil. Harley oils are fine. So are the others and probably better.
I asked you if you would only use Harley recommend tires and you said no. Doesn't the manufacture know what's best when it comes to tires? That's what you say about oils. [/quote]


Harley does not recommend gear oil in the transmission or primary. Most metrics run shared sumps with engine oil and transmission as well. To call GL1 lowest rated is incorrect, its oil made for a purpose. Many do not know GL5 oils are not the best for yellow metals and oil seals. GL1 oils are 100% completely safe.

Your post on the Harley oil recommendation is almost 100% correct and I will say again,
Harley Davidson says its ok to use a CH4+ diesel motor oil or above. One can read into it anything you want as far as switch back to Harley oil at the first chance.
But the bottom line is they give an endorsement of a diesel oil of Ch4 to Cj4 ... now isnt that better then using a "lower rated" motorcycle or automotive oil that you are using?
I tend to think the maker and designer of the engine knows more then me. They recommend an oil with a diesel rating for a reason.

Your tire comment is twisted at best. Maybe my answer was not clear, any motorcycle I ever owned I used the recommended motorcycle tire size. So I would use the same size motorcycle tire that Harley states, just as brake fluid and oil.
 
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[/quote]

GL1 is the lowest rated oil that protects the primary and transmission. Not the only one. If your transmission is making noise the dealer will upgrade (for more money) to a 75-90 gear lube.

Mobile 1 and Amsoil sell gear lube that they recommend over their 20-50 oil for Harley transmissions. Their 20-50 will meet Harley warranty requiments.
[/quote]

Incorrect, Mobile 1 and Amsoil recommend their MOTORCYCLE MOTOR OIL over their gear oil in Harley Transmission and Primaries. Amsoil now has gear oil as a second choice, after all they are in business to make money and they know full well some people will buy gear oil no matter what thinking it is better. But forget all of that, Harley also recommends motor oil in the transmission, think they know better or else how great it would be for them to tell everyone to put gear oil in the transmission and the transmission will last forever...

By the way, you will NEVER see Mobile or Amsoil recommending their gear oil for ANYTHING in a Harley. But even if they did, which they dont, would you listen to the big honest oil companies looking to make a bigger profit or would you listen to the guy who engineered and built your bike?

Click for Amsoil Recommendation
 
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Originally Posted By: alarmguy


GL1 is the lowest rated oil that protects the primary and transmission. Not the only one. If your transmission is making noise the dealer will upgrade (for more money) to a 75-90 gear lube.

Mobile 1 and Amsoil sell gear lube that they recommend over their 20-50 oil for Harley transmissions. Their 20-50 will meet Harley warranty requiments.
[/quote]

Incorrect, Mobile 1 and Amsoil recommend their MOTORCYCLE MOTOR OIL over their gear oil in Harley Transmission and Primaries. Amsoil now has gear oil as a second choice, after all they are in business to make money and they know full well some people will buy gear oil no matter what thinking it is better. But forget all of that, Harley also recommends motor oil in the transmission, think they know better or else how great it would be for them to tell everyone to put gear oil in the transmission and the transmission will last forever...

By the way, you will NEVER see Mobile or Amsoil recommending their gear oil for ANYTHING in a Harley. But even if they did, which they dont, would you listen to the big honest oil companies looking to make a bigger profit or would you listen to the guy who engineered and built your bike?

Click for Amsoil Recommendation


[/quote]

Amsoil only recommends engine oil in the Transmission over their gear oil because that is what HD recommends. They do not want to get in a [censored] contest with manufacturers recommendations. Just because something is in print doesn't make it so. Call the TECH line and ask!
I have run Schaffers Supreme 7000 20w-50 in engine and primary and different gear oils in the transmission in my last four Harleys. And, have never had any engine, primary, or transmission issue in any of them. The key is doing preventive maintenance and sticking to the recommended OCI. Heck, a MASTER HD Technician recommended and put Amsoil Gear oil in my tranny (leave in in for 20k miles) on my last service at the dealership and my current bike (103) has the full SE Stage IV kit and pushes 105 hp..
 
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If you want to be correct, Harley does not recommend amsoil or mobil 1 oils motor or gear, for any vehicle they make. They can claim it's good to use in a Harley, but Harley won't recommend or endorce it. They would rather have you use truck oil, then realize other oils work as good or better then theirs. Harley hopes then can brainwash it's customers for life, into using only their offerings more $$$ to be made. People that have been around some and have ridden enough know there are alot better choices available . Yes even better the diesel oil.Here's something to ponder, Why do they make gear oil if it's not to be used in a transmission?.,,,
 
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