Europe & Low SAPS oils

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volodymyr

volodymyr

Joined
Sep 13, 2014
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Hello Everyone,

I can see that some of the 'Low SAPS' oils have Porche C30 specification which apparently is dealing well with engine wear protection:

chart.jpg


I don't think I ever saw any other spec with such good results in Librizol. Does it mean that if you live in Europe you should normally stick with Low SAPS oils?

I live in Switzerland and it is illegal to sell in (or import to) Switzerland fuels (petrol & diesel) with more than 10 ppm of sulfur. So the fuel must be of good quality. Does it mean I have to forget about ACEA A3/B4 specs and simply use ACEA C2 and C3 with Porche C30 for best results?

Even when doing occasional visits to EU (France, Germany, Italy) it seems like in EU they use Euro-5 fuels since 2009 which also limits sulfur to 10 ppm.

Somehow I see a shift in European Castrol Edge line towards Low SAPS even for petrol engines. If I use the Castrol Lube adviser in Switzerland it recomends Castrol Edge 5W-30 ACEA C3 for my Nissan petrol engine.

Currently I am using ACEA A3/B4 Valvoline SynPower 5W-30, however I feel that if fuel is so good I can simply switch to Castrol Edge 5W-30 ACEA C3 and have a longer life of catalytic converter. My OCI are around 10k to 12k of kms. Official Nissan dealers do OCI every 15k of kms and use ACEA A3/B4 oils.

What do you think?
 
Originally Posted By: volodymyr
I don't think I ever saw any other spec with such good results in Librizol.

VW 504.00/507.00 has the exact same performance levels, according to Lubrizol.

Quote:
Does it mean I have to forget about ACEA A3/B4 specs and simply use ACEA C2 and C3 with Porche C30 for best results?

Dunno. Does using ACEA A3/B4 oils result in notably premature cat's death? Is it really a problem that needs fixing? Just asking...

I would use what your owner's manual calls for. If it's ACEA C2, C3, then so be it.
 
Quattro Pete,

Owners manual for Nissan's MR20DE engine asks for: "ACEA A1/B1 A3/B3, A3/B4, A5/B5, C2 or C3".

Now you see my dilemma: which spec is the best in my conditions
smile.gif
 
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Yeah, now i remember the previous discussion. Your list of specs is so broad, it makes it somewhat useless. You could be using just about anything.

The a3/b4 vs c2/c3 is getting into the splitting hair territory. I believe that with proper maintenance your engine will last longer than you care to keep it regardless which oil you use. The aftertreatment compatibility that c2/c3 offers is primarily of benefit to modern diesels, which you do not have, correct?
 
You are correct. I have petrol engines.

I am just trying to find any good reason to switch from ACEA A3/B4 Valvoline SynPower 5W-30 to 5W-30 Castrol EDGE and unfortunately in 5W-30 grade Castrol only makes/sells C3 (in Europe).
 
Unless some study proves that 'low SAPS' oils even with fuels with less than 10 ppm of sulfur will do worse engine wear protection than traditional ACEA A3/B4 oils ...

Somehow everything we are discussing here is strictly subjective. It would be nice to have some unified UOA database for different oils in the same cars so these things can be measured.
 
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Even if so, the difference in wear would be rather negligible. Low saps oils have been around for many years and im not seeing any premature engine failures as a result of their use.

A $20 uoa is not a powerful enough tool to answer your wear question.

Yes, it would be nice to have hard core evidence for us to drool over.
 
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IIRC, the A3/B4, and C3, have the nominal "same" wear to meet the standard, in spite of their different ash contents.

So there must be something between them in terms of actual performance, or they'd be merged.
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow
So there must be something between them in terms of actual performance, or they'd be merged.


One reason they don't merge them is the differing fuel quality standards from country to country mentioned previously. You do see their slow disappearance in Europe, where fuel quality is good.

Alas, I did hear one oil engineer specifically confirming that low SAPS oils do result in more wear. But as I said earlier, I am not convinced it is significant enough to matter over a typical term of vehicle ownership.
 
Gasoline engines normaly has flat tappets in valvetrain....vs roller tappets in diesel engines.....

So my personal opinion is...use A3/B4 instead of C3...
 
Originally Posted By: Kamele0N
Gasoline engines normaly has flat tappets in valvetrain....vs roller tappets in diesel engines.....

So my personal opinion is...use A3/B4 instead of C3...


Many, MANY gasoline engines are roller.
 
Originally Posted By: volodymyr
But none of mine
smile.gif
They all have flat tappets.


Only one of mine uses non-roller HLA's (the bimmer), the Ford and Dodge are both roller.
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Yeah, now i remember the previous discussion. Your list of specs is so broad, it makes it somewhat useless. You could be using just about anything.

No kidding. It might as well just say use whatever detergent, multigrade oil you can find with a semi-current spec, and use it.
wink.gif
 
Originally Posted By: volodymyr
Quattro Pete,

Owners manual for Nissan's MR20DE engine asks for: "ACEA A1/B1 A3/B3, A3/B4, A5/B5, C2 or C3".

Now you see my dilemma: which spec is the best in my conditions
smile.gif


I don't see a dilema here.
All the engine requires is a light A1/B1 or A5/B5 0W/5W-30. The heavier grades are what the engine will tolerate.
For best performance I'd source a A5/B5 0W-30 or 5W-30.
 
Porsche C30 is VW504 507.

The high wear score is due to the need for passing difficult tests including the VW RNT test which is probably the most difficult in industry.

I'd go for a C3 oil as these are >3.5 HTHS which work well in Europe with extended drains versus US 6k km ODI.
 
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