How much should I thin spar urethane?

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Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
I'm doing this in a pretty cold environment which also doesn't help.



How cold?


Around 60F.


The nibs are visible essentially as soon as I lay down the coating, so the extra cross link/cure time isn't the big issue, but it could have some effect.


60F is OK, 70F would be ideal, but I don't think that's the issue here. I think at this point you might consider to try and buff/rub it out as mentioned earlier and see what happens. You have a nice thick film to work with. Just let it cure if you go that route.
 
Ok well I had done all the coatings, sanding, and then let it cure weeks... Now to smooth it. As the coating fully cured and shrunk, I could see that some of the scratches from the 320 paper left a few marks that the subsequent coatings shrunk in to.

My aim is to do 800, 1000,1500, 2000 grit with soapy water, then 4f pumice and then rotten stone.

This was before. There were dust nibs in the finish, not many, but certainly some and some artifacts from earlier ones.

564F3629-6C90-4D39-8D43-3BCD14880FF6_zpsogvipqm1.jpg


72665AFA-9E90-4860-819C-85DB2E84123F_zpspiajhdbr.jpg


It worked well with some slightly soapy water and the 800 grit.

Thing was stuff like this:

B605660E-F866-49A6-A1C0-FB1C74509CBF_zpsr3tztyhe.jpg


What gives? There were no nibs after this, but what's with these artifacts and the smooth area around them?

I figured that Id get them all with the 1000 grit, so here's the table dry and ready:

DA6A44FD-259F-448A-9C05-B3735491916F_zpsjzk3yaxh.jpg


So I sanded with 1000, wet. Nothing really to show yet.

7DF81D49-F291-4935-BCF9-A2209484FB9A_zpstm6uffys.jpg


With the paper, I'll sand with the grain, long strokes only. But once I get to my compounds, I figure I'll do circles with my felt blocks. Or should I go with the grain?

I may try using my RO after the rotten stone with a car polish and maybe even a wax. What do you think?
 
That looks like it's been sanded with 320, perhaps 400.

Is that what it looked like with 800??

The variation you're seeing is just that: variation in the finish level. You level with sanding between coats. First step in rubbing out is leveling, but you've got to be careful, cut through the top layer and it will look blotchy.

Keep going with the 1000 until you get an even scratch pattern/sheen. Then move up a grade to 1200. Then 1500. Then your pumice, then rottenstone. If you've got 2000 grit, you could use that in place of pumice, I think.

No skipping steps or grits. Each successive grit removes the previous, more coarse scratch pattern.
 
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Yes, this is 800 imperial wet or dry on the sanding block.

B605660E-F866-49A6-A1C0-FB1C74509CBF_zpsr3tztyhe.jpg


0000 steel wool looks similar, actually I kind of like the 0000 wool cutting dynamic a bit better, but I'm at where im at.

I'll note that the paper does cake up even with the soapy water. So that may be causing issues..l
 
If it's caking up, that's generally because the finish is still soft. A hard finish will sand off cleanly with just fine dust that the water will keep in suspension so that your paper stays clean.

Spar varnish is designed to be soft, to allow it to flex with the wood in outdoor applications, where temperatures vary.

I was afraid that you might encounter this....best you can do, I think, is change the paper frequently, and see if you can get to a uniform 1000 grit "sheen". If it gets to a uniform look, then you might be able to continue.

You might just want to let the finish rest for a day or so, with a good heat source, so that the room, or at least the piece itself, is at 80 or better. That will help harden it, if the softness is because the finish itself is still not completely cured, and not just the nature of this urethane.
 
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Interesting. It's been weeks but I guess long oil finishes are like that. It does make good, fine, consistent dust. But it does ball up on the paper.

I'll leave it until next weekend.
 
This slab is intended for a workbench, but you are practicing to gain some experiance so you might one day refinish some fine furniture in another part of the house.
But, unfortunately you used the wrong product to begin with, and have likley applied the coats too thick.
However you still persue A fine finish!

It's a bit like painting a car with Tremclad and trying to work it to a Rolls Royce shine.
You can't make a silk purse out of a Sows ear!

Spar varnish is good stuff for outside projects. But not a Steinway piano!

Hard finishes can be worked to a high shine much better than Soft Spar varnish.

Workbench= High urethane varnish or Epoxy

Fine furniture = French polish or Lacquer.
 
Thanks. At the end of the day, dealing with dust nibs (which if not present, this would have been done after a coat or two) is what I'm trying to learn. Whether French polish, lacquer, hard urethane, long oil urethanes, etc., this is a common issue and challenge.

I applied thinned coats from the start. Maybe they were too thick, but that's part of the learning process too. One place I read don't brush over since it makes bubbles, another place it says to lay down thin and work it. This stuff isn't rocket science. I've had great success with shellac on other stuff, but this poly with the nibs is just a pain, even if thinned 50%.
 
Originally Posted By: expat


Fine furniture = French polish or Lacquer.


I like lacquer for gloss finishes, it dries so fast that you minimize the dust, and you and sand it sooner if you need. I've even hit it with lightly abrasive car wax for a shine.
Its just not as durable.

The last n last poly product that demarpaint recommended for my steps really worked well. Its super hard. but did have extreme fumes and long cure time ( and it was about $50 a gallon).
 
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Originally Posted By: spasm3
Originally Posted By: expat


Fine furniture = French polish or Lacquer.


I like lacquer for gloss finishes, it dries so fast that you minimize the dust, and you and sand it sooner if you need. I've even hit it with lightly abrasive car wax for a shine.
Its just not as durable.

The last n last poly product that demarpaint recommended for my steps really worked well. Its super hard. but did have extreme fumes and long cure time ( and it was about $50 a gallon).


I'm glad it worked well for you. I've used it many times on steps and saddles when it didn't pay for my customer to have a floor finisher come in.
 
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Ok well I had done all the coatings, sanding, and then let it cure weeks... Now to smooth it. As the coating fully cured and shrunk, I could see that some of the scratches from the 320 paper left a few marks that the subsequent coatings shrunk in to.

My aim is to do 800, 1000,1500, 2000 grit with soapy water, then 4f pumice and then rotten stone.

This was before. There were dust nibs in the finish, not many, but certainly some and some artifacts from earlier ones.

It worked well with some slightly soapy water and the 800 grit.

Thing was stuff like this:

B605660E-F866-49A6-A1C0-FB1C74509CBF_zpsr3tztyhe.jpg


What gives? There were no nibs after this, but what's with these artifacts and the smooth area around them?

I figured that Id get them all with the 1000 grit, so here's the table dry and ready:

So I sanded with 1000, wet. Nothing really to show yet.

With the paper, I'll sand with the grain, long strokes only. But once I get to my compounds, I figure I'll do circles with my felt blocks. Or should I go with the grain?

I may try using my RO after the rotten stone with a car polish and maybe even a wax. What do you think?


My two cents:
1. You're getting ahead of yourself. You flatten & level with 400 or 320, not 1000. The block helps spread the pressure so you don't cut through the finish. Think about it: If your block is 5 x 7, that's 35sqr. in. Compare that to sanding by hand, with your finger tips: Far less sqr. in. + much easier to cut through due to increased pressure/sqr. in.

2. Those shiny areas you see are low, below the areas that are dull. So you'll have to sand with a lower grit until they too are dull. To do that with 1000 or even 800 will take until Independence Day. Further, this is why your paper clogs, even wet sanding. Again, I'd suggest reading a book by one of the pros mentioned earlier. They'd never recommend leveling a finish with 1000.

3. You do have to be careful when using soapy water. Why? Because if you do cut through the finish, you'll wet the wood, which will swell. You'll also have water trapped below the finish, which isn't good. I prefer to use mineral spirits, which won't cause this.

4. Your willingness to learn this is admirable. As you've discovered, it's not easy. I'm not sure just how "flat" the bamboo surface was before you began. Remember flatness when finishing is measured in the thickness of the finish when cured. Filling in an unlevel ripple in the wood that's say, 1/16" of an inch with a film that cures to maybe 1/100 of an inch will take a many, many layers.

The telescope I restored is made of BB ply, which is quite flat as long as there are no divots in the veneer. Not sure if your bamboo table was as flat to start with. My point is it makes a HUGE difference with the flatness of the wood itself, even before any finish is applied. A ROS is good at many things, but it won't flatten wood or any finish. That's why you use a sanding block.

5. As an experiment, you might try using a smaller, palm sized sanding block made of something very hard & flat. No sponge rubber or foam as a backing. I made mine out of two layers of 3/4" BB ply glued together with a 1/8" hard rubber sheet glued to the bottom. This prevents the paper from slipping and ripping ar the 90° edge. With 400g, go after a small area like the one shown with low spots and see how long it takes to get it evenly dull. If it going too slow, then do the same with 320g. Work an area about 12" x 12" at a time. If soapy water works for you, then use it. But sand it wet. Once it's even, stop and do another 12x12 section.

Once the entire surface is evenly dull, THEN AND ONLY THEN, do you go up through the grits, using less pressure. Good luck!
 
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