China buying Pirelli

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The Chinese wont be happy until they own everything.I think they believe they can bankrupt the world by owning all of it (they can,we owe them trillions).Why would anyone sell to them? Do they not have any pride?
 
Pirelli already has tires made in China, so it only makes sense they own the company. For the record, the factory Pirelli P-Zeros on my Mustang are terrible, and I will be happy to have them off the car.
 
Originally Posted By: NHGUY
The Chinese wont be happy until they own everything.I think they believe they can bankrupt the world by owning all of it (they can,we owe them trillions).Why would anyone sell to them? Do they not have any pride?

I am glad others see this. Real estate they buy like crazy. They bought a large meat company recently too. I bothers me a lot to think of what they are doing in that meat company to ship pork to China. I don't doubt one second they have an equivalent to every weapon we have underground somewhere, and more. It seems to be a cultural thing. When I went to buy tires at Goodyear a few years ago, the guy pushed me to Chinese tires. When I asked where made he wouldn't tell, so I looked myself, said "they're made in China." He got angry, so we left. I don't think we will win this unless we become more concerned and pro active.
 
Every one acts like China has NEVER made a good product. I like my Wanlis, Sensens, Koyorad, Chinese knock sensor and Chinese wheel bearing. Am I forgetting anything?

China is a country, not a company. I would give the Chinese Pirelli a chance. If you find it to be [censored], don't buy it again. Just don't blindly lump all Chinese products together without giving them a chance.

Remember Taiwanese and Korean tires?
 
It is not just the quality of the products from the PRC, it is their complete lack of business ethics. They flagrantly rip off designs and sell them for less. They also will do everything they possibly can to cut corners and make products that look like they meet spec, but actually do not. Just look at what they did to Lumber Liquidators.

I have been at trade shows where the Chinese companies have people walking around the main floors with DSLR cameras taking closeups of all their competitor's products. Then next year you see flagrant knock offs for less.

There is a major suspension supplier to the Mustang aftermarket that is based in California that regularly has their products copied by Chinese factories, but with inferior metal and inferior assembly methods. Simpson Racing recently issued a warning to racers to look for counterfeit HANS devices from China.

I really wish there were more US, or at least 1st world country, options for certain products.
 
Originally Posted By: asand1
Every one acts like China has NEVER made a good product. I like my Wanlis, Sensens, Koyorad, Chinese knock sensor and Chinese wheel bearing. Am I forgetting anything?

China is a country, not a company. I would give the Chinese Pirelli a chance. If you find it to be [censored], don't buy it again. Just don't blindly lump all Chinese products together without giving them a chance.

Remember Taiwanese and Korean tires?



Have you ever actually owned a set of GOOD tires? If we are benchmarking junk, then junk is going to compare well to itself. However, compared to something of good quality, the junk then becomes apparent.

I've driven on good tires and Chinese tires. On the same vehicle. The good tires (Michelin) were markedly better in every possible way. But they of course are more expensive. I don't mind spending money on quality and avoid buying Chinese products whenever possible. I am not a fan of their business practices, nor am I fan of companies traditionally known for quality selling out or outsourcing to them, a list of which now includes Pirelli. The default process seems to be the cheapening of design and manufacture and price remaining the same.

Of course there are exceptions to every rule. You put enough QC in place (Cisco is a prime example) and they can produce quality. But you have to watch them like a hawk and then of course they still rip off your designs and clone them
smirk.gif
 
Originally Posted By: NHGUY
The Chinese wont be happy until they own everything.I think they believe they can bankrupt the world by owning all of it (they can,we owe them trillions).Why would anyone sell to them? Do they not have any pride?


Our own fault, funding methadone clinics and housing the lazy for 5 generations. We won't manufacture anything because of the greenies, but we'll let 3rd world countries do it for us? The financial state of our country is our own doing thanks to the liberal mindedness of the populace.

Its not China's fault that we've contracted out for them to do our dirty work.

We need to stop being a welfare state, start manufacturing and exporting WITHOUT PAYING UNION WAGES, throw out SOME environmental policies, and stop importing every kind of electronic device we use.

We need to stop pushing our kids into 4 year college to get a degree in Greek philosophy, just to go to work at Taco Bell and pay off their debts. Instead push your kids into a vocational/2 year school to learn engineering, nursing, automotive technology, etc..

Quit blaming China and look in a mirror (not just OP, but nationally).
 
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Have you ever actually owned a set of GOOD tires?


IMO I do. At 22,200 miles I still have 6/32 and 5/32 tread. No bubbles, ply separation, cracking, or belt shifting. Tires still feel great, hold the road doing 60+ in corners wet or dry. Les Schwab warranties these tires at 30,000 miles and I expect them to do that with no problems.

I bought these tire wanting performance and was not concerned about mileage. I have not been able to find their limits. Even at 120+mph they just feel good.

I have also had Toyo Eclipse and Ultra. They are good tires but weather check befor hitting the 80K mileage waranty, where is the value in that? And they are made in JAPAN.
 
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Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
Problem is, many consumers shop on price, where its made is not important.


Originally Posted By: asand1
start manufacturing and exporting WITHOUT PAYING UNION WAGES,


Unions were important years ago, now they are there to line the leaders pockets, play politics, and drive American companies into the ground.
 
Originally Posted By: asand1
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Have you ever actually owned a set of GOOD tires?


IMO I do. At 22,200 miles I still have 6/32 and 5/32 tread. No bubbles, ply separation, cracking, or belt shifting. Tires still feel great, hold the road doing 60+ in corners wet or dry. Les Schwab warranties these tires at 30,000 miles and I expect them to do that with no problems.

I bought these tire wanting performance and was not concerned about mileage. I have not been able to find their limits. Even at 120+mph they just feel good.


If you can't find the limits you aren't driving hard enough
wink.gif


Seriously though, if you have the money, the next time around you should try a PSS or something similar. It would be particularly interesting for you to try a track day with your current rubber and then again with a higher tier tire, I think the differences will then become apparent.

I went from what would be regarded as a "good" tire (Toyo T1R and T1 Sport) on my M5 to the PSS's. The difference was incredible. I could break traction at 60Mph with the Toyo's just doing a pass. Sure, they'd hang in there alright if I babied the car, but that's not fun. Put on the PSS's and not only did that problem disappear but I could push the car much harder without breaking traction. And wet weather performance was the biggest improvement; these are my benchmark for wet traction, and there are a number of others on here who can attest to that trait. They are simply incredible.
 
Originally Posted By: NHGUY
The Chinese wont be happy until they own everything.I think they believe they can bankrupt the world by owning all of it (they can,we owe them trillions).Why would anyone sell to them? Do they not have any pride?


We send them $ to by trinkets...they accumulate $, and have been told that to dump them would be seen as an act of aggression/war.

They buy assets, turning their pieces of promised paper into assets.
 
Originally Posted By: asand1
Originally Posted By: NHGUY
The Chinese wont be happy until they own everything.I think they believe they can bankrupt the world by owning all of it (they can,we owe them trillions).Why would anyone sell to them? Do they not have any pride?


Our own fault, funding methadone clinics and housing the lazy for 5 generations. We won't manufacture anything because of the greenies, but we'll let 3rd world countries do it for us? The financial state of our country is our own doing thanks to the liberal mindedness of the populace.

Its not China's fault that we've contracted out for them to do our dirty work.

We need to stop being a welfare state, start manufacturing and exporting WITHOUT PAYING UNION WAGES, throw out SOME environmental policies, and stop importing every kind of electronic device we use.

We need to stop pushing our kids into 4 year college to get a degree in Greek philosophy, just to go to work at Taco Bell and pay off their debts. Instead push your kids into a vocational/2 year school to learn engineering, nursing, automotive technology, etc..

Quit blaming China and look in a mirror (not just OP, but nationally).

Are you serious? I bet there was someone when cars started to role who said: It is our own fault, we are allowing these technologies instead of building more horse carriages.
The U.S. is not what it is because we are trying to produce same product for decades with same technologies, but because of INNOVATION!
I know there are a lot of people, especially people like Mitch McConnell that would like to burn coal for next 500 years, while temperatures in the beginning of March in Colorado rockies are in the 60's.
The U.S. is what it is because it was always looking forward, inventing new stuff etc. However, we have an issue in this country where we are at the point where we need to change a lot of stuff, and it is creating a lot of reaction from two types of people:
1. Those that care only about their personal interest.
2. Uneducated that are easy to manipulate (read: coal and big V8 engine are equal to freedom).
Instead of leading the world in electric cars, alternative energy etc, we are having conversation how to compete with country whose main source of energy is technology from 1920's.
Also, wait until China experience first economic crisis, then we will see how things are stable.
By the way when it comes to unions. There is a reason why german companies did not need bailout. It is called sense of ownership by average worker that works there who has more interest in building quality product then the one that is not unionized.
Only people in the U.S. who are receiving meaningful welfare are Banks etc.
But, to your joy, we do have a lot right to work states, and we know how that works for them. I spent 7 years in one of those states, and half of State still does not have decent sewage system, windows on public schools are luxury, and have infant mortality rate worse then Libya.
Unless we figure out that education is public good, not private good, yes you should be worried about other countries overtaking the U.S.
In the end, Jaguar and Volvo are in Chinese hands, and?
 
Originally Posted By: edyvw

Are you serious? I bet there was someone when cars started to role who said: It is our own fault, we are allowing these technologies instead of building more horse carriages.
The U.S. is not what it is because we are trying to produce same product for decades with same technologies, but because of INNOVATION!

The U.S. is what it is because it was always looking forward, inventing new stuff etc.


For a long time there was no innovation in the auto industry because union workers did not have to compete, they were guaranteed a job. It was the Japanese that pioneered DOHC and VVT and other such INNOVATIONS. and they took pride in building a high quality product. Unions are just pridefulo, they have no reason for their pride though. What new thing did FORD, GM, and Dodgey invent that wasn't a disaster?
 
Originally Posted By: SumpChump
How long do you think until the first Chinese made P7 rolls into stores? Or perhaps better said... How many months of real P7s do you think are out there?

There is a brand new plant in Mexico that builds P7+ tires. That will probably keep going.
 
Originally Posted By: asand1

For a long time there was no innovation in the auto industry because union workers did not have to compete, they were guaranteed a job. It was the Japanese that pioneered DOHC and VVT and other such INNOVATIONS. and they took pride in building a high quality product. Unions are just pridefulo, they have no reason for their pride though. What new thing did FORD, GM, and Dodgey invent that wasn't a disaster?


No it wasn't, it was the Japanese that primarily revised and managed to produce affordably technologies that were mostly pioneered by the Germans. Basically every safety innovation came from Mercedes for example. [censored], they invented the bloody car, LOL!

VVT was first implemented by the Italians, IIRC, and Ford had DOHC engines before Honda was making cars:

FordDOHC.jpg



I sense a great deal of revisionist history here. The Japanese have been great at taking features and revising them and making them:

A) Simpler and by extension, usually more reliable.
B) Through A, making them more affordable and subsequently putting them in less expensive cars.

DI for yet another example, was first used by Mercedes in automotive applications. VW/Audi was using it well before anybody else in recent history. But their implementation had issues. Current iterations from Ford, GM and the Japanese, are not plagued by those same issues.

If we compare fuel injection systems from even the 80's, Honda primarily used something that resembled TBI, whilst by 1986, Ford had sequential injection (developed with Intel and Bosch) on anything that wasn't a truck (they got batch-fire port injection).
 
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