German GP 'dead' as Nürburgring pulls out as well
http://www.f1today.net/en/news/200506/german-gp-dead-as-nrburgring-pulls-out-as-well?
Kevin
http://www.f1today.net/en/news/200506/german-gp-dead-as-nrburgring-pulls-out-as-well?
Kevin
German Grand Prix; apparently not in 2015
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Bernie financially abuses anybody that wants to put on one his races. The sanctioning fee is too high. If they cut out all the races that aren't making money, the F1 season would probably only be 10 races.
From the article:
"Mr Ecclestone knew our offer," Nurburgring board member Michael Lemler told the Rhein Zeitung newspaper. "We had been willing to accept a reasonable loss. Now we look to the future."
Why should race promoters be willing to accept a loss so Bernie can take all the money? Does he think he's that special? Isn't it the goal of business to enter into agreements from which both parties profit?
From the article:
"Mr Ecclestone knew our offer," Nurburgring board member Michael Lemler told the Rhein Zeitung newspaper. "We had been willing to accept a reasonable loss. Now we look to the future."
Why should race promoters be willing to accept a loss so Bernie can take all the money? Does he think he's that special? Isn't it the goal of business to enter into agreements from which both parties profit?
wemay
Site Donor 2023
Egomaniac...
Bernie is going to kill the golden goose.
How much money does a 90 year old need? It's not going to be a "world championship" soon. It's going to be a "Middle East" championship. Been a F1 fan for 40 years- going downhill fast- the way the prize money is divided up. The haves and have nots are 100s of millions apart.
How much money does a 90 year old need? It's not going to be a "world championship" soon. It's going to be a "Middle East" championship. Been a F1 fan for 40 years- going downhill fast- the way the prize money is divided up. The haves and have nots are 100s of millions apart.
Bernie needs to stick with what Bernie knows best, and that's marketing. If he wants a real legacy in the business, it's time to revive Bernie-Vision, since the broadband infrastructure has caught up to his vision. He could really hold certain broadcasters' feet to the fire on that one, plus pocket some healthy royalties.
As sad as it is to watch, being a lifelong F1 fan, I am starting to think it might be best to just let Bernie destroy the current world championship and let it burn to the ground.
From the ashes a better series will emerge.
From the ashes a better series will emerge.
Originally Posted By: BikeWhisperer
As sad as it is to watch, being a lifelong F1 fan, I am starting to think it might be best to just let Bernie destroy the current world championship and let it burn to the ground.
Sad to say that seems to be the way it's going. It almost appears that the destruction of F1 is Bernie's objective.
As sad as it is to watch, being a lifelong F1 fan, I am starting to think it might be best to just let Bernie destroy the current world championship and let it burn to the ground.
Sad to say that seems to be the way it's going. It almost appears that the destruction of F1 is Bernie's objective.
What sucks is Bernie did a lot of good in the series in securing TV contracts and bringing up the standards of the series. However he has gone way past helping at this point.
I am starting to get into Formula E, the series is still a little hokey, but it is good racing.
I am starting to get into Formula E, the series is still a little hokey, but it is good racing.
Since the Hockenheimring was ruined in 2002, Germany doesn't deserve an F! race. They "Tilkeed" the most beautiful track on the circuit, and turned it into a boring abomination. No F1 for you!
I knew this was going happen last year and posted it. German fans are not interested in a friggin fuel economy race between hybrids. Say whatever you want that exactly what its become nothing more. Personally i wouldn't pay $5 and go across the street to see it.
Its not about the driver anymore, with all the pitiful regulations, fans are just not interested.
I have been watching it since the days of Jim Clark but no more. I watched part of one race last year, heard the cars and turned it off.
$hit can the fuel, tire, qualifying engines and other engine regulations, bring back some real engines and sound, dump the hybrid and let the drivers drive like their hair is on friggin fire and i and a lot of others will watch again.
It was time for that cackling old fool Ecclestone to quit a decade ago if not longer.
Its not about the driver anymore, with all the pitiful regulations, fans are just not interested.
I have been watching it since the days of Jim Clark but no more. I watched part of one race last year, heard the cars and turned it off.
$hit can the fuel, tire, qualifying engines and other engine regulations, bring back some real engines and sound, dump the hybrid and let the drivers drive like their hair is on friggin fire and i and a lot of others will watch again.
It was time for that cackling old fool Ecclestone to quit a decade ago if not longer.
I love to hate the little troll and will sorely miss him when he's gone (just like I miss Max Mosely).
Originally Posted By: bdcardinal
What sucks is Bernie did a lot of good in the series in securing TV contracts and bringing up the standards of the series. However he has gone way past helping at this point.
I am starting to get into Formula E, the series is still a little hokey, but it is good racing.
Indycar might get more of my attention this year, the cars are god-awful looking but the racing is often very close. And this year there is some variety with the aero packages.
I was a huge Champ Car fan back in the glory days (80's and 90's) and regularly attended races at Portland. If Indycar came to Portland I would most definitely be there again.
What sucks is Bernie did a lot of good in the series in securing TV contracts and bringing up the standards of the series. However he has gone way past helping at this point.
I am starting to get into Formula E, the series is still a little hokey, but it is good racing.
Indycar might get more of my attention this year, the cars are god-awful looking but the racing is often very close. And this year there is some variety with the aero packages.
I was a huge Champ Car fan back in the glory days (80's and 90's) and regularly attended races at Portland. If Indycar came to Portland I would most definitely be there again.
It really is a sad state of affairs in F1. More and more about politics, less and less about racing and quality drivers.
Originally Posted By: Trav
I knew this was going happen last year and posted it. German fans are not interested in a friggin fuel economy race between hybrids. Say whatever you want that exactly what its become nothing more. Personally i wouldn't pay $5 and go across the street to see it.
Its not about the driver anymore, with all the pitiful regulations, fans are just not interested.
Don't be too hard on Bernie, Trav. After all, it takes two (or more) to tango, and Bernie didn't come up with all these rules on his own and hand them down from on high. The constructors share a significant portion of the blame.
I don't mind the notion of some cutting edge technology and some fuel economy gains. But, as you point out, it's a little much right now. Heck, I'm even getting into the idea of a wind tunnel ban, which was already mentioned, and was previously against. The real concern of this hybrid technology right now is over-complexity. One team being dominant is fine, within reason. Sometimes, someone comes up with a better way to apply a technology. Such is life. However, if it's to the point that other engine builders cannot compete after a couple seasons, even with the money of Renault and Ferrari, then we have a problem.
And that being said, when does it get to be "too much money" to compete? When do Mercedes, Ferrari, Renault, and Honda throw so much money at the problem that any non-works team wanting to run their engine cannot afford to sign a contract for them?
I understand that Bernie and everyone else in F1 want to be innovative and be seen as preparing the cutting edge technology for the real world, but lets not go nuts with the spending. Mercedes and Ferrari have plenty of incentive and money to experiment with the cutting edge. Others, not so much.
There is plenty of blame to go around with respect to the current state of F1. Bernie is greedy, no doubt, but no more so than any other professional (or large amateur) sporting even, which always seem bent on bankrupting the hosting city. The constructors have been gullible enough to accept the new regulations, and I'm cynical enough to not trust the blustering of some of the teams at the moment. Red Bull officials say they aren't happy with the new rules. I say they're not happy with their success under the new rules. If Vettel had had another record breaking championship season, the grumbling would have been a lot less. And, governments, too have their share of blame. The sponsorship rules have been completely destroyed, and the blame lies completely on the EU and Canada.
Oh, and Trav, there are no qualifying engines, and haven't been for a long time. Thankfully, that's gone, since that would drive costs even higher than they are now. I can live with fuel regulations, within reason, since the fuel is dictated as being "almost" pump gas, eliminating exotic blends, and the ban on refueling makes things safer, in my view.
Let them make all the power they want, and sure, have a maximum amount of fuel available. They've already proven they can accomplish a lot with less fuel. Just don't overcomplicate the matter.
I knew this was going happen last year and posted it. German fans are not interested in a friggin fuel economy race between hybrids. Say whatever you want that exactly what its become nothing more. Personally i wouldn't pay $5 and go across the street to see it.
Its not about the driver anymore, with all the pitiful regulations, fans are just not interested.
Don't be too hard on Bernie, Trav. After all, it takes two (or more) to tango, and Bernie didn't come up with all these rules on his own and hand them down from on high. The constructors share a significant portion of the blame.
I don't mind the notion of some cutting edge technology and some fuel economy gains. But, as you point out, it's a little much right now. Heck, I'm even getting into the idea of a wind tunnel ban, which was already mentioned, and was previously against. The real concern of this hybrid technology right now is over-complexity. One team being dominant is fine, within reason. Sometimes, someone comes up with a better way to apply a technology. Such is life. However, if it's to the point that other engine builders cannot compete after a couple seasons, even with the money of Renault and Ferrari, then we have a problem.
And that being said, when does it get to be "too much money" to compete? When do Mercedes, Ferrari, Renault, and Honda throw so much money at the problem that any non-works team wanting to run their engine cannot afford to sign a contract for them?
I understand that Bernie and everyone else in F1 want to be innovative and be seen as preparing the cutting edge technology for the real world, but lets not go nuts with the spending. Mercedes and Ferrari have plenty of incentive and money to experiment with the cutting edge. Others, not so much.
There is plenty of blame to go around with respect to the current state of F1. Bernie is greedy, no doubt, but no more so than any other professional (or large amateur) sporting even, which always seem bent on bankrupting the hosting city. The constructors have been gullible enough to accept the new regulations, and I'm cynical enough to not trust the blustering of some of the teams at the moment. Red Bull officials say they aren't happy with the new rules. I say they're not happy with their success under the new rules. If Vettel had had another record breaking championship season, the grumbling would have been a lot less. And, governments, too have their share of blame. The sponsorship rules have been completely destroyed, and the blame lies completely on the EU and Canada.
Oh, and Trav, there are no qualifying engines, and haven't been for a long time. Thankfully, that's gone, since that would drive costs even higher than they are now. I can live with fuel regulations, within reason, since the fuel is dictated as being "almost" pump gas, eliminating exotic blends, and the ban on refueling makes things safer, in my view.
Let them make all the power they want, and sure, have a maximum amount of fuel available. They've already proven they can accomplish a lot with less fuel. Just don't overcomplicate the matter.
I know qualifying engines haven't been used in years and that one of my complaints.
Ahh, I see, I misread. The thing I fear with qualifying engines is the cost, though. Qualifying times are already fast enough in comparison to regular race laps, given that fuel loads are much smaller, there's no concern for fuel saving, and they're using fresh tires of the softer compound. Having an extra 200+ hp in a qualifying engine (which we did see in the past) just makes the qualifying times all that much more unrealistic.
But, if it's something that could be done cheaply enough, I suppose it could spice things up nicely. And see, we can't give Bernie too hard of a time. It's impolite to insult the senile.
Unfortunately, I don't think that's the case - he's just out of his depth in certain matters.
F1 needs more visibility in North America. COTA helped, but having limited coverage, particularly with respect to practice sessions, and limited time shifting doesn't help. The fanatics will try to watch the race despite the ungodly hours. The casual fan would like time shifting. The fanatics would also like to see P1, P2, and P3 on TV, rather than just P2 like in Canada (and sometimes no P2 depending on the TV package in Canada).
I'd still like to see a decent, non-grey market, HD streaming service. They do it for WEC. I pay to watch WEC, and I'd pay for Bernie-Vision if it were brought back.
But, if it's something that could be done cheaply enough, I suppose it could spice things up nicely. And see, we can't give Bernie too hard of a time. It's impolite to insult the senile.
F1 needs more visibility in North America. COTA helped, but having limited coverage, particularly with respect to practice sessions, and limited time shifting doesn't help. The fanatics will try to watch the race despite the ungodly hours. The casual fan would like time shifting. The fanatics would also like to see P1, P2, and P3 on TV, rather than just P2 like in Canada (and sometimes no P2 depending on the TV package in Canada).
I'd still like to see a decent, non-grey market, HD streaming service. They do it for WEC. I pay to watch WEC, and I'd pay for Bernie-Vision if it were brought back.
What i liked about the qualifying engines was the rest of the car eg the chassis and body aerodynamics as well as the driver were brought more into the equation.
The car with the most powerful qualifying engine didn't automatically become pole sitter or even front row, many times the cars chassis or driver wasn't up to the task.
When they are all running neutered its harder to tell. IMO the hybrid drives are costing a lot more then anyone anticipated. F1 IMHO shouldn't be about hybrid drive trains, fuel economy, no refueling, different mandatory tire compounds being used in each race, drivers being penalized for blowing an engine and all this other garbage.
Cars should be able to use 100% of their HP at any given time not only at certain times and zones.
I want to see launch control, and most steering wheel controls banned. Take the sport back 20 years and keep some of the safety equipment.
The way its going if the pole sitter can get out front he wins as long as the thing stays together. It sucks, whats next self driving cars (cutting edge tech) and emission controls, solar panels on the wing?
Hopefully this once great motor sport finally slips into the same box with that senile old fool and something less regulated replaces it..
The car with the most powerful qualifying engine didn't automatically become pole sitter or even front row, many times the cars chassis or driver wasn't up to the task.
When they are all running neutered its harder to tell. IMO the hybrid drives are costing a lot more then anyone anticipated. F1 IMHO shouldn't be about hybrid drive trains, fuel economy, no refueling, different mandatory tire compounds being used in each race, drivers being penalized for blowing an engine and all this other garbage.
Cars should be able to use 100% of their HP at any given time not only at certain times and zones.
I want to see launch control, and most steering wheel controls banned. Take the sport back 20 years and keep some of the safety equipment.
The way its going if the pole sitter can get out front he wins as long as the thing stays together. It sucks, whats next self driving cars (cutting edge tech) and emission controls, solar panels on the wing?
Hopefully this once great motor sport finally slips into the same box with that senile old fool and something less regulated replaces it..
I don't doubt that qualifying engines could mix things up and add some interest. My only concern would be cost. It certainly would add some excitement, changing a few extra variables between race and qualifying. I also see there's a fine line between the notion of reliability and costing, with respect to engines. How much extra testing and R&D needs to be done to get engines to last many races, versus the cost of throwaway engines (i.e. qualifying engines). It's all interesting, and I wouldn't see a big problem with mixing things up or experimenting a bit.
As for costs with the current hybrids, I agree completely. It seems with some teams, there are major software issues. I don't know the inner workings of an F1 team, but it would seem to me that the importance of computer programming took a huge leap when the system went from KERS to the current one. Guys like Adrian Newey, and even Sir Frank, know more about the mechanics of racing than we could possibly imagine. Having to actually program power units, though, would cause a steep learning curve for the team.
They could use solar panels on the wings to power the LCDs on the wheels.
Realistically, though, the constructors have to take a stand, too. Claiming that Bernie has caused all the grief is a bit of an oversimplification.
As for costs with the current hybrids, I agree completely. It seems with some teams, there are major software issues. I don't know the inner workings of an F1 team, but it would seem to me that the importance of computer programming took a huge leap when the system went from KERS to the current one. Guys like Adrian Newey, and even Sir Frank, know more about the mechanics of racing than we could possibly imagine. Having to actually program power units, though, would cause a steep learning curve for the team.
They could use solar panels on the wings to power the LCDs on the wheels.
Realistically, though, the constructors have to take a stand, too. Claiming that Bernie has caused all the grief is a bit of an oversimplification.
Bernie is only part of the problem as you say, the manufacturers do need to take a stand.
If enough of the big players decide to chuck it in then maybe they will listen.
If enough of the big players decide to chuck it in then maybe they will listen.
Originally Posted By: Trav
German fans are not interested in a friggin fuel economy race between hybrids. Say whatever you want that exactly what its become nothing more. Personally i wouldn't pay $5 and go across the street to see it.
Its not about the driver anymore, with all the pitiful regulations, fans are just not interested.
I have been watching it since the days of Jim Clark but no more. I watched part of one race last year, heard the cars and turned it off.
$hit can the fuel, tire, qualifying engines and other engine regulations, bring back some real engines and sound, dump the hybrid and let the drivers drive like their hair is on friggin fire and i and a lot of others will watch again.
It was time for that cackling old fool Ecclestone to quit a decade ago if not longer.
That pretty much sums up my feelings about F1 these days. Watching cars which are a shadow of their former greatness, just doesn't appeal to me. They've dumbed-down MotoGP in recent years, too.
I only hope we can keep the namby pamby hand-wringers from killing Professional Dragracing here in the States.
German fans are not interested in a friggin fuel economy race between hybrids. Say whatever you want that exactly what its become nothing more. Personally i wouldn't pay $5 and go across the street to see it.
Its not about the driver anymore, with all the pitiful regulations, fans are just not interested.
I have been watching it since the days of Jim Clark but no more. I watched part of one race last year, heard the cars and turned it off.
$hit can the fuel, tire, qualifying engines and other engine regulations, bring back some real engines and sound, dump the hybrid and let the drivers drive like their hair is on friggin fire and i and a lot of others will watch again.
It was time for that cackling old fool Ecclestone to quit a decade ago if not longer.
That pretty much sums up my feelings about F1 these days. Watching cars which are a shadow of their former greatness, just doesn't appeal to me. They've dumbed-down MotoGP in recent years, too.
I only hope we can keep the namby pamby hand-wringers from killing Professional Dragracing here in the States.
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