This is my first post here. Now I have changed my own cars oil for over 13 years. I have run "full" synthetic oil in my cars almost that entire time. In my experience Castrol in the gold bottle performed extremely well over the first 4k miles. As did Pennzoil Ultra too. I change my oil every 4k to 5k mile . I know that is way early in many people's eyes. Which I understand. But I just wanted to do it that way to ensure the very best performance for my car. Now I have decided to run Havoline 5w-30 conventional in my Altima 3.5 VQ. I know it has a very good TBN over 8.5 to 8.9. Which is really strong for a Dino oil. I also know it has a weakness in the NOACK test because its volatility was 15.1 to 15.5. I also feel like the wear protection is very strong given what I have read about it has well. I road tested my car on a stretch of straight and I mean straight has an arrow road for (2.8 miles) going 64 mph. My car said I was getting 29.1 to 29.6 mpg. Well that is the exact same gas mileage I was getting out of the Castrol in the gold bottle just put in after an oil change too. Which is somewhat impressive to me. Now finally for my question. What are the odds this Havoline will hold up the gas mileage has well has the Castrol? Because with the Castrol my car did not start losing gas mileage until I was closing in on 4k miles into a OCI.. Very strong performance over the long run. So, what are the chances the Havoline will perform the same? Or will it be at least close to that? Thank you for thoughts in advance.
Oil performance over the long run
- Thread starter bbhero
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Can you give us more information about this MPG hit you see close to 4k miles? I really doubt it's your motor oil.
But to answer your question, Havoline is an excellent conventional oil. I consider it one of the best, up there with Pennzoil Yellow Bottle, and Mobil Super 5k. I've never seen any MPG difference as I neared 4k miles (or any mileage really), but because of my confidence in Havoline conventional, I'd wager it will do very well. Probably just as good as the Castrol synthetic in that regards.
But to answer your question, Havoline is an excellent conventional oil. I consider it one of the best, up there with Pennzoil Yellow Bottle, and Mobil Super 5k. I've never seen any MPG difference as I neared 4k miles (or any mileage really), but because of my confidence in Havoline conventional, I'd wager it will do very well. Probably just as good as the Castrol synthetic in that regards.
Yeah I was getting 28.8 or so with the Castrol with titanium as I got close to 4k miles. So that performed very well in that time frame. So yeah I was hoping for the same or close to the same with the Havoline. That would be really good to see that. About that stretch of road.. I bet I could get my car to 160 mph easily with enough time to slow down for the left turn at the end of it. Not that I have done that. But I bet it could be done. Yippee !
I don't think anything but precisely calibrated instrumentation could calculate fuel consumption to the tenth of a gallon. Too many variables.
May well be a lot of truth in that. But I just went by the instrument in the car. But at least I went to the exact same road and very similar conditions. But I do agree that more precise instruments would give a more accurate resul . Makes sense to me on that level.
Originally Posted By: bbhero
I road tested my car on a stretch of straight and I mean straight has an arrow road for (2.8 miles) going 64 mph. My car said I was getting 29.1 to 29.6 mpg. Well that is the exact same gas mileage I was getting out of the Castrol in the gold bottle just put in after an oil change too. Which is somewhat impressive to me.
The friction in your engine that decreases gas mileage is almost entirely based on viscous drag forces - in other words how difficult it is to pump the oil through the filter/ passages/ bearings. Using an oil with a lower dynamic or HTHS viscosity will give a small improvement in efficiency because it is easier to pump - but at the tradeoff of a small amount wear protection.
Originally Posted By: bbhero
What are the odds this Havoline will hold up the gas mileage has well has the Castrol? Because with the Castrol my car did not start losing gas mileage until I was closing in on 4k miles into a OCI.. Very strong performance over the long run. So, what are the chances the Havoline will perform the same? Or will it be at least close to that?
The viscosity of motor oil changes with miles used because of two main factors:
1) the viscosity index improvers shear, making the oil thinner and easier to pump through the lube system, which will net you better gas mileage;
2) blow-by past the piston rings causes soot to form in the oil which increases its viscosity making it more difficult to pump through the lube system, thus lowering your gas mileage.
Both effects can happen simultaneously, and whichever effect is more dominant creates the overall resulting increase/decrease in oil viscosity and the corresponding decrease/increase in efficiency and gas mileage.
I road tested my car on a stretch of straight and I mean straight has an arrow road for (2.8 miles) going 64 mph. My car said I was getting 29.1 to 29.6 mpg. Well that is the exact same gas mileage I was getting out of the Castrol in the gold bottle just put in after an oil change too. Which is somewhat impressive to me.
The friction in your engine that decreases gas mileage is almost entirely based on viscous drag forces - in other words how difficult it is to pump the oil through the filter/ passages/ bearings. Using an oil with a lower dynamic or HTHS viscosity will give a small improvement in efficiency because it is easier to pump - but at the tradeoff of a small amount wear protection.
Originally Posted By: bbhero
What are the odds this Havoline will hold up the gas mileage has well has the Castrol? Because with the Castrol my car did not start losing gas mileage until I was closing in on 4k miles into a OCI.. Very strong performance over the long run. So, what are the chances the Havoline will perform the same? Or will it be at least close to that?
The viscosity of motor oil changes with miles used because of two main factors:
1) the viscosity index improvers shear, making the oil thinner and easier to pump through the lube system, which will net you better gas mileage;
2) blow-by past the piston rings causes soot to form in the oil which increases its viscosity making it more difficult to pump through the lube system, thus lowering your gas mileage.
Both effects can happen simultaneously, and whichever effect is more dominant creates the overall resulting increase/decrease in oil viscosity and the corresponding decrease/increase in efficiency and gas mileage.
You are very good at scientific thought and reasoning. You are comparing oils on paper and then gathering empirical data on your own to measure gas mileage as an outcome. I see very little of that on here. People will argue one oil is better than another but not provide any data to show it makes a difference in the real world.
Originally Posted By: CentAmDL650
Originally Posted By: bbhero
I road tested my car on a stretch of straight and I mean straight has an arrow road for (2.8 miles) going 64 mph. My car said I was getting 29.1 to 29.6 mpg. Well that is the exact same gas mileage I was getting out of the Castrol in the gold bottle just put in after an oil change too. Which is somewhat impressive to me.
The friction in your engine that decreases gas mileage is almost entirely based on viscous drag forces - in other words how difficult it is to pump the oil through the filter/ passages/ bearings. Using an oil with a lower dynamic or HTHS viscosity will give a small improvement in efficiency because it is easier to pump - but at the tradeoff of a small amount wear protection.
Originally Posted By: bbhero
What are the odds this Havoline will hold up the gas mileage has well has the Castrol? Because with the Castrol my car did not start losing gas mileage until I was closing in on 4k miles into a OCI.. Very strong performance over the long run. So, what are the chances the Havoline will perform the same? Or will it be at least close to that?
The viscosity of motor oil changes with miles used because of two main factors:
1) the viscosity index improvers shear, making the oil thinner and easier to pump through the lube system, which will net you better gas mileage;
2) blow-by past the piston rings causes soot to form in the oil which increases its viscosity making it more difficult to pump through the lube system, thus lowering your gas mileage.
Both effects can happen simultaneously, and whichever effect is more dominant creates the overall resulting increase/decrease in oil viscosity and the corresponding decrease/increase in efficiency and gas mileage.
Interesting. How much of an effect on gas mileage could that have? I'm thinking maybe +/- 5% at the most?
Originally Posted By: bbhero
I road tested my car on a stretch of straight and I mean straight has an arrow road for (2.8 miles) going 64 mph. My car said I was getting 29.1 to 29.6 mpg. Well that is the exact same gas mileage I was getting out of the Castrol in the gold bottle just put in after an oil change too. Which is somewhat impressive to me.
The friction in your engine that decreases gas mileage is almost entirely based on viscous drag forces - in other words how difficult it is to pump the oil through the filter/ passages/ bearings. Using an oil with a lower dynamic or HTHS viscosity will give a small improvement in efficiency because it is easier to pump - but at the tradeoff of a small amount wear protection.
Originally Posted By: bbhero
What are the odds this Havoline will hold up the gas mileage has well has the Castrol? Because with the Castrol my car did not start losing gas mileage until I was closing in on 4k miles into a OCI.. Very strong performance over the long run. So, what are the chances the Havoline will perform the same? Or will it be at least close to that?
The viscosity of motor oil changes with miles used because of two main factors:
1) the viscosity index improvers shear, making the oil thinner and easier to pump through the lube system, which will net you better gas mileage;
2) blow-by past the piston rings causes soot to form in the oil which increases its viscosity making it more difficult to pump through the lube system, thus lowering your gas mileage.
Both effects can happen simultaneously, and whichever effect is more dominant creates the overall resulting increase/decrease in oil viscosity and the corresponding decrease/increase in efficiency and gas mileage.
Interesting. How much of an effect on gas mileage could that have? I'm thinking maybe +/- 5% at the most?
You get about a 1% improvement in fuel economy for each grade of oil you go down. For example, going from a 0w-40 to a 0w-30 usually gives a 1% improvement. If you go from a 30 to a 20, you get a 1% roughly improvement.
Then the GF-5 oils contain additional friction modifiers that are good for about another 0.5% to 1% improvements over oils that don't qualify for GF-5.
You can see these differences on your car's fuel MPG displays, but your tires have to be aired up the same, the wind has to be the same or very close, and you need to go on the same road surface, preferably no hills of course, also the same weight in the car.
Then the GF-5 oils contain additional friction modifiers that are good for about another 0.5% to 1% improvements over oils that don't qualify for GF-5.
You can see these differences on your car's fuel MPG displays, but your tires have to be aired up the same, the wind has to be the same or very close, and you need to go on the same road surface, preferably no hills of course, also the same weight in the car.
Originally Posted By: bbhero
Well actually I do work in healthcare so I guess that's where that comes from. I appreciate your comments. I was just trying to figure out a way to test my own hypothesis to see if I was on the right track. Made some sense to me.. but
It's a good hypothesis. I'd recommend measuring your mileage on fresh oil and then every 1000 miles for each oil type. Then you'll have data points for intra and inter oil variability.
I'm in clinical research healthcare.
Well actually I do work in healthcare so I guess that's where that comes from. I appreciate your comments. I was just trying to figure out a way to test my own hypothesis to see if I was on the right track. Made some sense to me.. but
It's a good hypothesis. I'd recommend measuring your mileage on fresh oil and then every 1000 miles for each oil type. Then you'll have data points for intra and inter oil variability.
I'm in clinical research healthcare.
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Wow... That is really really quite interesting.. Yeah I plan on keeping a record for this run on Havoline conventional at those markers. If it performs as well than I will likely stick with it and change it q 3k miles maybe 4k miles. . if not up to what I would like to see than I will see what I may change too. Quaker state ultimate durability?? A good bet.. Based on my research so far. . others may well work too. I am sure of that
Don't worry about it. I'm running a grade thicker than normal, and no fuel economy change can be detected within error bars. I posted a mathematical analysis on the issue some time ago here, including error analysis, as a matter of fact. There were even periods where the 40 grade did better than the 30 grade. That simply shows how much driving habits trump oil choice.
Yeah makes sense.. But I am interested in seeing if this Havoline will hold up vs.. Castrol with titanium in the long run. I am thinking if the conventional is pretty close than that is good to know.. If it falls off a lot more than the Castrol than that is good to note as well. I have been very meticulous about taking care of my car so I know that helps. I changed the Castrol every 4k miles and I know that is WAY early. But I wanted the very best for my car in terms of protection. And I am quite sure it has gotten that. By the way I have seen your takes on this stuff and you are very very well read and smart. So I respect your insights
Thanks for the kind words. I'm sure the Havoline is a good choice. I'd have little concern about using it or the Chevron stuff, aside from the fact that it's a little less common out this way. At the very least, the distributors that I know who carry it are a little more off the beaten path for me than is Imperial Oil. At least the distributors that do happen to carry it in those locations do so at a reasonable price.
If you're doing the 4,000 mile thing, you'll have ample head room, so to speak, with Havoline, or any other appropriately certified choice. And I do understand your concern about the oil holding up, although in a slightly different way. Back when I drove cars that consumed a bit of oil, I'd be able to get to 3,000 miles without noticeable consumption. After that, the consumption would start, and even get pretty insane. Or, with the old F-150, before the rebuild, the oil wouldn't hold up to the fuel dilution very well past a certain mileage. So, such worries don't come just out of the blue.
If you're doing the 4,000 mile thing, you'll have ample head room, so to speak, with Havoline, or any other appropriately certified choice. And I do understand your concern about the oil holding up, although in a slightly different way. Back when I drove cars that consumed a bit of oil, I'd be able to get to 3,000 miles without noticeable consumption. After that, the consumption would start, and even get pretty insane. Or, with the old F-150, before the rebuild, the oil wouldn't hold up to the fuel dilution very well past a certain mileage. So, such worries don't come just out of the blue.
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