2014 6.7 Cummins questions

[jrmason]

I dont agree with the 6 month oil changes but Chrysler is asking for it, not sure how it would turn out if any Warranty issues arose. Either way I would stick to 5w40 year round in your climate. I'm in lil ol Ohio and that's what I use. We saw lots of -15 to -30 and as cold as -39 degree weather this winter. 5w40 is superior in this kind of weather and what Cummins recommends.

Dont worry about the nay sayers, I'll always tick the box with the big C as well

 

[BrianF]

Go to your nearest Coop and take a look at their synthetic line. They have some nice PAO based 0w and 5w40 CJ4 oil. Locally it runs about 32$ for 5 liters. I cant find anything else that compares in price.

The Coop oil is based off of the PetroCan line of oils.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
I've been pointing that out ever since they made the 6.4HD engine available last year, though you took the time to prove it with actual numbers and I never did all the calculations. It just seemed pretty obvious that break-even was pretty far away.

As an aside, Canadian Ram dealers have really been pushing the Cummins in the last number of years. For a time, they offered a lifetime powertrain warranty. For another period, they also offered the Cummins engine for "free." I don't know if the OP was able to take advantage of either of those.

 

[hemitruck]

op, first, unless things have changed since i had my 5.9 cummins, you need to check your manual for approved oil filters. i always used fleetguard. i would get them from "genos". way up north 5-40wt would be fine. rotella is a good oil.

 

[A_Harman]

Originally Posted By: Ramblejam
Originally Posted By: SilverC6
If you are buying a RAM 2500, why aren't you buying a Cummins?


Because for people that buy based on merits, and not merely want or bravado, the 6.4L Hemi makes a compelling argument for purchase.

Lets take the most popular configuration - Crew Cab, Short Box, 4x4:

http://www.ramtrucks.com/assets/towing_guide/pdf/2015_ram_2500_towing_charts.pdf

Notice the Cummins is only available with a 3.42, whereas the Hemi can be optioned with 4.10. Now, take a look at the performance numbers -- Hemi beats the Cummins in every single performance category:

Zero to 60 mph
Zero to 100 mph
Rolling start, 5-60 mph
Top gear, 30-50 mph
Top gear, 50-70 mph
Standing ¼-mile
Top speed

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2014-ram-2500-hd-crew-cab-4x4-diesel-test-review
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2014-ram-2500-hd-crew-cab-4x4-hemi-test-review

Currently, over the standard 5.7:

Hemi is a $1,395 option.
Cummins is $8,795 ($8,195 for engine, $600 for 68RFE transmission) option.

Additional, current fuel prices in my neck of the woods:

89 Octane (preferred fuel choice): $2.33
Diesel: $2.85

So, all else being equal, if we take the average 11 mpg for the Hemi, and 16 mpg for the Cummins (from Car and Driver data), with the average 15k/year:

It'll take 15 years to break even with the Cummins


Thanks for the data. I think that's a fair analysis on payback for the diesel. Blame the cost of aftertreatment systems for driving up the cost of owning a diesel.

But it is kind of moot to compare acceleration performance between diesel and hemi pickups that are outfitted for towing. Either is going to be slow when they are performing their intended job. If you want thrilling acceleration, buy the Hemi Challenger and use the truck to tow it to a race track.

 

[Rzr67]

Thanks again for everyone's input.

Again, not that it matters, but yes I was able to take advantage of the "no cost cummins" deal at my dealer, and was able to find my truck off-year with no mileage. Bought it at the beginning of 2015, and it had about 120km on it.

I don't think buying a heavy diesel truck is ever a frugal endeavor, but I think I came out of this one doing alright.

This is not my first diesel, had a duramax previous, then tried a half-ton hemi which was just not adequate, despite the fact I tow rarely. And this likely wont be my last one. I'm (relatively) young, I do fairly well for myself, so, I applaud the efforts, but doing a cost/benefit analysis on cummins vs hemi is wasted on me.

In any case, I ended up having to run into the U.S. the other day and dropped into walmart in Bottineau. They had rotella T6 5w40. It was $19 U.S. per Gallon with a $5 mail in on each gallon. That's cheaper than I can find any 5w40 synthetic up here, even factoring in the incredibly [censored] Canadian dollar vs U.S. so i picked up enough for a couple changes. I think ill run it year round.

Thanks again for all the replies.

 

[m37charlie]

Don't want to start a side argument, but...
The reports we have seen from people with recent 6.7 Cummins that have deleted emissions (if feasible in your province) are extremely positive. In terms of increased mpg (10-30%, average ~20%), markedly increased reliability and decreased wear numbers on UOAs. If I were to buy one, there is no question I would do a delete as soon as I had determined a baseline mileage figure.
I agree with using 5W40 year round in Manitoba.

Charlie

 

[bullwinkle]

Originally Posted By: m37charlie
Don't want to start a side argument, but...
The reports we have seen from people with recent 6.7 Cummins that have deleted emissions (if feasible in your province) are extremely positive. In terms of increased mpg (10-30%, average ~20%), markedly increased reliability and decreased wear numbers on UOAs. If I were to buy one, there is no question I would do a delete as soon as I had determined a baseline mileage figure.
I agree with using 5W40 year round in Manitoba.

Charlie
I would delete the DPF too-but I would talk to your dealer first regarding your warranty status-some don't have a problem with deleting, other dealers will bounce warranty claims, even on unrelated issues.

 

[SilverC6]

In your cost analysis, you forgot resale.

You get your money back in spades then.

But if you want a Hemi, buy a Hemi.

I have one in a 2014 1500 4X4 RAM at work and it's a nice engine.

But when you step on that Aisin optioned Cummins with all that torque, you feel like a feather on a charging buffalo's back.

Also, I wouldn't delete anything. Run the DEF and change the oil a little more often. No big deal.

USEPA will be on the deletes one of these days, just wait.

 

[m37charlie]

Originally Posted By: SilverC6



USEPA will be on the deletes one of these days, just wait.


Like I said, I don't want to start a side argument.
But the guy lives in Manitoba.

Charlie

 

[Blang]

For what it's worth, this is from the owner's manual:
"Use SAE 15W-40 MOPAR® or an equivalent engine oil
meeting Chrysler Material Standard MS-10902. Products
meeting Cummins® CES 20081 may also be used. The
identification of these engine oils is typically located on
the back of the oil container.
In ambient temperatures below 0°F (-18°C), SAE 5W-40
synthetic engine oil that meets Chrysler Materials Standard
MS-10902 and the API CJ-4 engine oil category is
required."
Since 6 month intervals are required by the manufacturer, I would probably stick with 5w-40 synthetic of your favorite brand that meets the specs... assuming that you see -18 C there...

Those are awesome trucks. Enjoy.

 

[Boczech]

Originally Posted By: m37charlie
Originally Posted By: SilverC6



USEPA will be on the deletes one of these days, just wait.


Like I said, I don't want to start a side argument.
But the guy lives in Manitoba.

Charlie


Hey Charlie with all due respect and such :

Question for you then , does he live on this planet ? Like clean air ?

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: m37charlie
Like I said, I don't want to start a side argument. But the guy lives in Manitoba.

Absolutely. I can't be absolutely certain, but I'd wager a few dollars that there is no emissions testing in Manitoba, particularly for diesels. As to the other arguments about clean air, I understand the point, but given the number of tractors and combines in Manitoba running on regular, old fashioned diesel engines, a few pickup trucks with deletes isn't a big deal.

And the free Cummins thing almost makes up for the atrocious pricing on the new diesel half tons.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: Rzr67
This is not my first diesel, had a duramax previous, then tried a half-ton hemi which was just not adequate, despite the fact I tow rarely. And this likely wont be my last one. I'm (relatively) young, I do fairly well for myself, so, I applaud the efforts, but doing a cost/benefit analysis on cummins vs hemi is wasted on me.

As an aside, the spring drop in the price of diesel has begun here. How about in your neck of the woods?

 

[m37charlie]

Originally Posted By: Boczech
Originally Posted By: m37charlie
Originally Posted By: SilverC6



USEPA will be on the deletes one of these days, just wait.


Like I said, I don't want to start a side argument.
But the guy lives in Manitoba.

Charlie


Hey Charlie with all due respect and such :

Question for you then , does he live on this planet ? Like clean air ?


Like I said, the guy lives in Manitoba! Do you understand the chemistry of air pollution? Evidently not. In underpopulated areas, NOx reduces quickly to N2 and O3, which decomposes to O2. CO (not an issue in even older diesels) oxidizes quickly to CO2. Soot settles to the ground and mixes into the soil, it is just carbon. The ONLY emission component that is permanent is CO2, which guess what, is HIGHER in emission controlled diesels due to DPF burns. Significantly higher. So in a thinly populated area he is actually doing the atmosphere a FAVOR (if one believes in climate change due to CO2 rise) by deleting DPF, EGR etc. Even if he lives in Winnipeg, with the flat terrain and prevailing westerly winds I doubt automotive air pollution is a problem.
Like I said, I didn't want to start a side argument, just present an option to the OP since I noted where he lives, but you DID start a side argument with your totally unscientific comment.

Charlie

 

[SilverC6]

If Canada has no emissions requirements, then that's fine.

Down here in the states, if the USEPA doesn't like what you are doing, they don't invite you to get the chalkboard out and give them a chemistry lesson.

Instead, they give you a citation for $40,000/violation and an invitation to US federal court to discuss.

Don't believe me, violate the Clean Water Act on a construction site and get caught.

I don't know when the Feds will get air pollution squarely in their sights again but it is a major component of water pollution. And they are very focused on that right now.

 

[m37charlie]

Let me explain in more detail for those that don't understand smog chemistry. The formation of smog requires a reaction between NOx and HC (produced mainly by older gasoline engines), catalyzed by UV radiation from the sun. Because there are TWO reactants, the concentration of the products (which are unstable and decompose back down to CO2, N2, H2O and O2) is roughly proportional to the SQUARE of the density of vehicles. That is a really big reason why smog is not a problem in places like Manitoba (again, I don't know about Winnipeg for sure; Anchorage, with 250K people and mts on one side is not a problem; Fairbanks, with 55K and large hills on both side does have a problem).

Charlie

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: SilverC6
If Canada has no emissions requirements, then that's fine.

It's generally provincially regulated, and in a province with the population density and geography of Manitoba (or Saskatchewan), there will be no testing in the foreseeable future, as in not likely within any of our lifetimes. Once can technically be dinged for messing with federally mandated emissions equipment, but no one in Manitoba or Saskatchewan is going to check, much less enforce by way of charge or inspection ticket. The only way that would even be conceivable is if an officer wanted Vehicle X off the road for some reason, and nothing else under equipment regulations was a violation, and the officer had enough knowledge to recognize that emissions equipment had been modified.

 

[TiredTrucker]

Pretty much the same in Iowa. There is no emission testing and no one runs around checking. They concentrate their efforts on randomly testing diesel pickups for use of non taxed off road diesel.

 

[440Magnum]

Quote:

Now that aisin transmission is an options, I might get one myself to add to my harem of trucks.


Isn't it only an option in chassis/cab units and with a PTO? I don't see much of an advantage for it, really. Now if they come up with a version of the 8HP-x that is suitably geared for the diesel, that could be awesome both from a capability and longevity perspective.