Thinner oil fixed my noisy lifters!

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Contrary to popular belief and what I've always been told - use thicker oil to quieten noisy hydraulic lifters, I accidentally found quite the opposite!

Here's why they were noisy - I was once on a road trip through the desert, accessory belt snapped so the water pump stopped working and the engine boiled all the coolant out within minutes. Carried on driving for over 30 mins with no coolant and cheap dino 15w40. That scorched nasy dino ended up being in there for 25,000km because I was clueless back then.
After this event I started noticing the lifter rattle.
I changed the oil to 15w50 to quieten it but it didn't do much, just made the car sluggish and use more fuel so I went back to 10w40 with the tick still there.
Around 6 months ago the local store was out of Durablend 10w40 so I grabbed 10w30 instead. Before I put the 30wt in I decided to return it and grab some Durablend 15w50 because I still thought the thicker stuff would be quieter, but they wouldn't let me.
I thought I might as well just put the 10w30 in anyway. I went on a big drive the day after the change and the tick was completely gone!

My guess is the thinner oil worked past the crud built up from that long and burnt OCI and was able to get into the lifters and help clean them out.
Still ticks very slightly sometimes but is constantly improving

Moral of the story is thicker oil won't always help a rattly engine!
 
Originally Posted By: 19jacobob93
Moral of the story is thicker oil won't always help a rattly engine!

Quite true, I have a little rule of thumb (its not always true either but mostly). If the noise is from the block end below the cylinder head(s) then thicker oils tend to help more than thin.
From the top end thinner usually does better at keeping things quiet. Things like camshaft pitting, worn rocker fulcrums or rockers, galled balls and seats, etc tend to throw a fly in the ointment though.

Noise from the timing chain area can go either way depending on if its chain or tensioner, barring any mechanical damage needing replacement thicker will help slightly with chain noise and thinner the tensioners hydraulic system.

Nice you took a trial and error approach, going up didn't yield the result so you went down and it did.
 
Originally Posted By: Trav
Originally Posted By: 19jacobob93
Moral of the story is thicker oil won't always help a rattly engine!

Quite true, I have a little rule of thumb (its not always true either but mostly). If the noise is from the block end below the cylinder head(s) then thicker oils tend to help more than thin.
From the top end thinner usually does better at keeping things quiet. Things like camshaft pitting, worn rocker fulcrums or rockers, galled balls and seats, etc tend to throw a fly in the ointment though.

Noise from the timing chain area can go either way depending on if its chain or tensioner, barring any mechanical damage needing replacement thicker will help slightly with chain noise and thinner the tensioners hydraulic system.

Nice you took a trial and error approach, going up didn't yield the result so you went down and it did.

Thanks for the reply and very true! I found thicker stuff is only really good for dying bottom ends and other low pressure issues or if you're burning oil and it's not worth fixing properly (like my old Mitsubishi beaters of past, Lucas oil stabilizer anyone?) I also think a lot of top end lubrication issues are due to oil restriction and thinner oil helps combat this like in my case
smile.gif

Cheers
 
My Jeep 4.0L is a bit louder on Rotella 5w-40 than 30 grades. Since it's started making more noise, I feel like the 5w-20/30 blend I ran was the quietest.
 
Originally Posted By: 19jacobob93
Contrary to popular belief and what I've always been told - use thicker oil to quieten noisy hydraulic lifters, I accidentally found quite the opposite!

Here's why they were noisy - I was once on a road trip through the desert, accessory belt snapped so the water pump stopped working and the engine boiled all the coolant out within minutes. Carried on driving for over 30 mins with no coolant and cheap dino 15w40. That scorched nasy dino ended up being in there for 25,000km because I was clueless back then.
After this event I started noticing the lifter rattle.
I changed the oil to 15w50 to quieten it but it didn't do much, just made the car sluggish and use more fuel so I went back to 10w40 with the tick still there.
Around 6 months ago the local store was out of Durablend 10w40 so I grabbed 10w30 instead. Before I put the 30wt in I decided to return it and grab some Durablend 15w50 because I still thought the thicker stuff would be quieter, but they wouldn't let me.
I thought I might as well just put the 10w30 in anyway. I went on a big drive the day after the change and the tick was completely gone!

My guess is the thinner oil worked past the crud built up from that long and burnt OCI and was able to get into the lifters and help clean them out.
Still ticks very slightly sometimes but is constantly improving

Moral of the story is thicker oil won't always help a rattly engine!


I must admit you're pretty lucky not to have done a HG, if that Falcon in your 'sig' is the car that was overheated. Our EB kept on at it for 4 years until we sold it.

Was 10w30 the original Ford recommendation for that vehicle, or was it something quite variable with the weather?

If it wasn't, and you were just trying to solve the problem, I have to congratulate you for going against the Australia adage "Thicker=Better." Marketing done by certain companies (Whose name begins with a "P") would have you believe you didn't run a thick enough oil. Nevermind Synthetic v. Mineral, or whether a spread like 0w50 is sustainable with Mineral oils! (LOL).

It would be interested to see what sort of shape the engine is in these days after what happened. Perhaps its a miracle you didn't blow the thing up! Maybe Ford isn't as [censored] as some people tend to think... (Is that a late E-series, or the dreaded AU?)
 
Originally Posted By: B320i

I must admit you're pretty lucky not to have done a HG, if that Falcon in your 'sig' is the car that was overheated. Our EB kept on at it for 4 years until we sold it.

Was 10w30 the original Ford recommendation for that vehicle, or was it something quite variable with the weather?

If it wasn't, and you were just trying to solve the problem, I have to congratulate you for going against the Australia adage "Thicker=Better." Marketing done by certain companies (Whose name begins with a "P") would have you believe you didn't run a thick enough oil. Nevermind Synthetic v. Mineral, or whether a spread like 0w50 is sustainable with Mineral oils! (LOL).

It would be interested to see what sort of shape the engine is in these days after what happened. Perhaps its a miracle you didn't blow the thing up! Maybe Ford isn't as [censored] as some people tend to think... (Is that a late E-series, or the dreaded AU?)

It is the 'dreaded' AU haha the most solid of the Falcons though, they don't do head gaskets, ever! After the head problems with the E series they switched to a triple layer steel gasket and brought in a feature that shuts down the hottest cylinders and uses them to draw in cold air when coolant is lost. Didn't bother the engine one bit apart from the cr*ppy oil got baked to the lifters!
I recently had the rocker cover off to polish it and the internals are in unbeleavable shape! Very clean too cause I did a series of 2k intervals with flushes!
Yep 10w30 was recommended so I should have always just stuck to it! And yep both Penrite and Nulon make 40w70 oils for high mileage engines! Makes me sick!!! Haha I've seen a UOA on a new E series Falcon (back in the day) that had iron wear metals at 500 ppm using 40w70 with 30k on the clock! Not good for anything that sh*t
 
Originally Posted By: Miller88
40w-70!!?!?!

I felt bad running 5w-40 in my glorified tractor engine ...

Yep! I imagine it strikes even more fear into the average American BITOGer than it does mine!
40 and even 50 weights are perfectly fine in a big SOHC I6 if you ask me but I only run a 30 now for the said reason :p
My old man put the Penrite 40w70 into a Mitsubishi 3.5 v6 cause it started burning oil! The car actually seemed to like it but I still cried myself to sleep every night until he drained it haha
 
Originally Posted By: 19jacobob93
Originally Posted By: B320i

I must admit you're pretty lucky not to have done a HG, if that Falcon in your 'sig' is the car that was overheated. Our EB kept on at it for 4 years until we sold it.

Was 10w30 the original Ford recommendation for that vehicle, or was it something quite variable with the weather?

If it wasn't, and you were just trying to solve the problem, I have to congratulate you for going against the Australia adage "Thicker=Better." Marketing done by certain companies (Whose name begins with a "P") would have you believe you didn't run a thick enough oil. Nevermind Synthetic v. Mineral, or whether a spread like 0w50 is sustainable with Mineral oils! (LOL).

It would be interested to see what sort of shape the engine is in these days after what happened. Perhaps its a miracle you didn't blow the thing up! Maybe Ford isn't as [censored] as some people tend to think... (Is that a late E-series, or the dreaded AU?)

It is the 'dreaded' AU haha the most solid of the Falcons though, they don't do head gaskets, ever! After the head problems with the E series they switched to a triple layer steel gasket and brought in a feature that shuts down the hottest cylinders and uses them to draw in cold air when coolant is lost. Didn't bother the engine one bit apart from the cr*ppy oil got baked to the lifters!
I recently had the rocker cover off to polish it and the internals are in unbeleavable shape! Very clean too cause I did a series of 2k intervals with flushes!
Yep 10w30 was recommended so I should have always just stuck to it! And yep both Penrite and Nulon make 40w70 oils for high mileage engines! Makes me sick!!! Haha I've seen a UOA on a new E series Falcon (back in the day) that had iron wear metals at 500 ppm using 40w70 with 30k on the clock! Not good for anything that sh*t


I heard of this feature on the AU.

Wonder if the newer HG could be retrofitted backwards for the older Falcons? Surely the guys in the modding community have adopted this to avoid periodic (i.e. every service) HG replacement.

Problem is Ford should have addressed the real problem in the Big-6 block - COOLANT FLOW, instead of band-aiding the problem by fixing the ECU and HG themselves. #6 cylinder apparently has a lack of flow which boils the coolant. I mean, 10 years and this was never fixed?! Not impressive, tbh.

Irregardless, still have a soft spot for older Fords. Would love to have a Fairlane Ghia V8...
 
Yep they can be fitted to E series engines despite being a completely new yet extremely similar design. Most E series modders just shove in an entire AU engine though because there was a lot of other major re works over the E series block.
Yeah they did have a problem on cyls 1 & 6 mainly, not sure if the coolant flow issue was solved on the AU I6 because it was a completely new block design (again almost identical looking though) but I've not once ever heard of an AU doing a head gasket, and I know one with 1,200,000km on the original engine and internals (that's bearings, valve train, head literally everything)

Yep would love one of those myself! Have been looking at some very nice now km examples. AU was the last model to have the amazing 5.0 Windsor v8 too
 
Originally Posted By: 19jacobob93
both Penrite and Nulon make 40w70 oils for high mileage engines!
What do you blokes consider "high-mileage"?

The ex's car has over 195,000 and runs 5W-30. My 1968 Buick Gran Sport summer toy has 165,000 and runs better, with almost the same oil pressure, on 10W-30 than on 20W-50, which I used before I knew better.

40W-70...
shocked2.gif
 
Originally Posted By: RF Overlord
Originally Posted By: 19jacobob93
both Penrite and Nulon make 40w70 oils for high mileage engines!
What do you blokes consider "high-mileage"?

40W-70...
shocked2.gif



I know, I was going to comment about Aussies love for thick oil, but the thought of a 40W-70 leaves me speechless. SAE J300 leaves off at 25W for winter grades and 60 for high temperature grades.
 
My experience is that thicker doesn't even help oil consumption, and can make it worse. Weak/worn oil control rings can't scrape heavier oil off as easily as thin oil, so more heavy oil gets burned, plugs foul quicker, etc. Different engines react differently, though.

Thicker oil definitely props up worn bearing clearances and worn oil pumps, though, enabling normal or near-normal oil pressures.
 
Originally Posted By: lexus114
your going to make the thicker oil is better people on here blow a gasket !
wink.gif



Run 40w-70s long enough and lots of gaskets will probably blow! haha!

Phew! I am going to have to buy some 0w-20 after reading this!
 
Originally Posted By: Trav
Originally Posted By: 19jacobob93
Moral of the story is thicker oil won't always help a rattly engine!

Quite true, I have a little rule of thumb (its not always true either but mostly). If the noise is from the block end below the cylinder head(s) then thicker oils tend to help more than thin.
From the top end thinner usually does better at keeping things quiet. Things like camshaft pitting, worn rocker fulcrums or rockers, galled balls and seats, etc tend to throw a fly in the ointment though.

Noise from the timing chain area can go either way depending on if its chain or tensioner, barring any mechanical damage needing replacement thicker will help slightly with chain noise and thinner the tensioners hydraulic system.

Nice you took a trial and error approach, going up didn't yield the result so you went down and it did.


I also used to think that my Elantra engine ran more smoothly and quietly on 5W-30 oil than it did on 5W-20 oil (I know there's not much difference between the two, but I have also seen other posts and heard others say the same thing about their engines being smooth and quiet on 5W-30 versus 5W-20). The first 5W-20 oil I used in the car was Mobil 1. After using QSUD 5W-20 and NAPA Synthetic 5W-20 and noticing that it ran just as quietly/smoothly on these oils as it did using 5W-30, I no longer have the same opinion. I also believe it can possibly depend on the brand of oil being used. Certain brands may run more smoothly/quietly in certain applications. I have both 5W-20 and 5W-30 in stash ... I won't be buying any more 5W-30 in the future. I am going to run what 5W-30 I do have in the spring and summer ... when it has all been used up, I will use only 5W-20 from then on. Anyway, my car manual says that 5W-20 is the preferred oil for the car (5W-20 is also on the oil cap) ... it says that 5W-20, 5W-30, and 10W-30 (for climates with temperatures 0 degrees F or greater) can all be used, but 5W-20 is preferred.
 
Originally Posted By: RF Overlord
Originally Posted By: 19jacobob93
both Penrite and Nulon make 40w70 oils for high mileage engines!
What do you blokes consider "high-mileage"?

The ex's car has over 195,000 and runs 5W-30. My 1968 Buick Gran Sport summer toy has 165,000 and runs better, with almost the same oil pressure, on 10W-30 than on 20W-50, which I used before I knew better.

40W-70...
shocked2.gif


I think the rough idea of high mileage here is 250k KM+ although Maxlife 20w50 (only visc of ML we get!) says in massive writing on the front 'for engines over 100,000km'. Now can you imagine someone who didn't really know, with a small fairly new Honda that specs 5w20/30, just ticked over 100,000kms so they thought they had to put this 20w50 in! I'm sure this happens every day over here thanks to marketing on thick high mileage oils for cars that are still babies.
I buy car parts off a retired mechanic who has a 2001 Falcon Wagon with 960,000KM on the clock, original engine and internals, and he has only ever put 5/10w30 and it runs so smooth and quiet you wouldn't believe it had half the Ks.
What I've found is those who know, stay thin/factory spec and service more often. Those that fall for the marketing gimmicks end up killing their engines!
 
There's an inlet hole on the side of each hydraulic lifter. That hole gets covered with crud sometimes and that's why the lifter goes flat. Thin oil is able to worm its way up there and clean that crud off.
 
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