0w20 w/high moly cant pass TEOST 33?

[wemay]

From ConocoPhillips...
http://www.ocsoil.fi/upload/News on Lubes/ILSAC-GF-5.pdf

The TEOST 33C bench test evaluates an engine oil’s tendency to form high-temperature
deposits. This test was originally developed and included in GF-2 to evaluate turbocharger
deposits. It was not part of GF-3 or GF-4, but is back in GF-5 in anticipation of greater use of
turbochargers. Turbochargers allow the automakers to use smaller displacement, more fuel-
efficient engines while still maintaining high power output. Deposit buildup in the turbocharger
bearing areas can lead to loss of engine performance, turbocharger failure and possibly engine
failure. In GF-2, the maximum limit for deposits was 60 mg. For GF-5, the maximum limit is 30
mg (except there is no limit for SAE 0W-20 oils because some Japanese OEMs recommend
SAE 0W-20 oils with high molybdenum content which will not pass this test).

 

[Rand]

right like TGMO 0w20

But not in turbo engines.

its all about the engine and use.

TGMO is a very good passenger car oil, but putting it in unrecommended applications could be damaging(to the engine)

 

[wemay]

Interesting because 5w20 does pass it. What if the 0w20 had no moly like Valvoline for instance. Is it the viscosity or the additive that is the deciding factor. Seems to be more so the additive.

 

[A_Harman]

How high is the Moly content on the oils that fail TEOST?
Red Line 5w30 also had trouble with TEOST in AMSoil's oil comparison a couple of years ago.

Red Line's 0w20 has 869 ppm Moly according to the VOA.

 

[wemay]

Originally Posted By: A_Harman
How high is the Moly content on the oils that fail TEOST?
Red Line 5w30 also had trouble with TEOST in AMSoil's oil comparison a couple of years ago.


Good question. They don't advise in the article.

 

[A_Harman]

Gokhan's VOA of TGMO last year showed 116 ppm Moly. That doesn't seem like a dangerous amount.

Oil Changer posted VOA's of TGMO in 2012 that showed 522 ppm, for the SM version, and 122 for the SN version.

Idemitsu 0w20 had 72 ppm.

 

[ZZBottom]

Does RedLine 5w-30 contain as much moly as their 0w-20 ?
Edit: I found it. Yes it does, 700-800 ppm range moly in their 5w-30 too.

 

[ZZBottom]

Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Gokhan's VOA of TGMO last year showed 116 ppm Moly. That doesn't seem like a dangerous amount.

Idemitsu 0w20 had 72 ppm.


Mazda 0w-20 has 600 ppm --- wow!

 

[A_Harman]

Originally Posted By: ZZBottom
Does RedLine 5w-30 contain as much moly as their 0w-20 ?
Edit: I found it. Yes it does, 700-800 ppm range moly in their 5w-30 too.

Yes, the Red Line 5w30 is ~800 ppm.

 

[ZZBottom]

Originally Posted By: ZZBottom
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Gokhan's VOA of TGMO last year showed 116 ppm Moly. That doesn't seem like a dangerous amount.

Idemitsu 0w20 had 72 ppm.


Mazda 0w-20 has 600 ppm --- wow!


Wondering what Mazda TEOST "Toast" test looks like. So they get a pass on that GF-5 test. Sick.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

I discussed this many times. Everyone ignores.

Any Turbo spec for 0w20? Sound like Death. Cant keep a moderate specific output engine alive for long on this oil.

 

[buster]

I forget what RL's response was to barely meeting the test. Honda developed a different deposit test for their turbo engines - HTO-06. However, that test is not an industry wide standardized test.

Mobil 1 and TGMO both use the tri nuclear moly. RL and others are using a different form of it.

So far in the 3, M1 EP 0w20 keeps the engine quieter than the OE Mazda oil.

 

[ZZBottom]

A few full synthetic 5w-30 oils meet HTO-06, no 0w-20 oils.
As for turbos using 0w-20, notice the 2014 Chevy Cruze turbo model specs 5w-30 or 0w-30 dexos1 oils only where a lot of other normally aspirated Chevys get 0w-20 dexos1.

Ford's turbos might have better turbine bearing cooling though, allowing them to use lighter oil. Cooling makes a difference obviously.

 

[buster]

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2995318

More info in the above ^

Main feature is a modified hot-tube test. Purpose:
• Evaluate the deposit-forming tendency of an oil after aging. (Testing an oil in
fresh condition only is not useful.)
• The aging procedure simulates additive consumption and sludge/soot build-up


"As Jeff Jetter says, "testing an oil in fresh condition only is not useful" and that is a limitation of the virgin TEOST test.
So if one is concerned about engine deposits in a 30wt oil I'd want to use an oil that that meets HTO-06 and also has a low TEOST test score as well.
"

 

[wemay]

Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite


I discussed this many times. Everyone ignores.

Any Turbo spec for 0w20? Sound like Death. Cant keep a moderate specific output engine alive for long on this oil.


BMW does...
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3388596/BMW_approved_0W-20_for_N20_tur

 

[ZZBottom]

Originally Posted By: wemay demarpaint Clevy molaKule .....
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite


I discussed this many times. Everyone ignores.

Any Turbo spec for 0w20? Sound like Death. Cant keep a moderate specific output engine alive for long on this oil.


BMW does...
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3388596/BMW_approved_0W-20_for_N20_tur


There fixed your signature, like the way you modified mine to include a group of posters.

However, unlike you, I can answer oil posts with common sense. In this one, you simply need to take into account turbo cooling.

 

[wemay]

I still don't understand what it is about the high moly content + 0w20, that contributes to it not passing the TEOST test.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Originally Posted By: ZZBottom
Originally Posted By: wemay demarpaint Clevy molaKule .....
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite


I discussed this many times. Everyone ignores.

Any Turbo spec for 0w20? Sound like Death. Cant keep a moderate specific output engine alive for long on this oil.


BMW does...
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3388596/BMW_approved_0W-20_for_N20_tur


There fixed your signature, like the way you modified mine to include a group of posters.

However, unlike you, I can answer oil posts with common sense. In this one, you simply need to take into account turbo cooling.


More than turbo cooling.

 

[martinq]

Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Gokhan's VOA of TGMO last year showed 116 ppm Moly.
That doesn't seem like a dangerous amount. Idemitsu 0w20 had 72 ppm.

Originally Posted By: ZZBottom
Mazda 0w-20 has 600 ppm --- wow!

The Mazda and Honda 0w20 do not use the Infineum trimer-moly that's used in the Toyota and Mobil 1. You need to have 8-10x the amount of 'traditional' dimer-type to get the same effect (IIRC).

 

[Jetronic]

Originally Posted By: wemay
I still don't understand what it is about the high moly content + 0w20, that contributes to it not passing the TEOST test.



most likely the viscosity doesn't have much to do with it, other than only 0w-20 oils get a free pass.

Are the deposits however harmful, and are they a result of the moly or because of less detergents in the oil? that's what interests me more.. and are all forms of moly prone to this, including MoS2...