HELP! Starter Issues - Not the Norm...

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tony1679

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Yesterday my aunt's '04 Impala 3.4 wouldn't start. Went to look at it, it would crank, but not fire. Then I opened the hood. Had her crank it, and I found there was smoke coming from the starter while cranking. Ok, fine. I tested the starter at a parts store. It was bad, and the smoking repeated (whew, not her wiring). Bought a reman starter and installed it.

I hooked the battery back up, and the starter instantly engaged. Oops, I think I hooked it back up wrong. So I reversed the two cables (as the third was tiny and couldn't hook up wrong). I reattached the battery cables, and nothing happened. Good.

I turn the key, and it fires up. But wait, what's that whine? Nothing seems wrong except that whine. So I shut it off. The whine SLOWLY quiets to a stop. I restart the engine. Same story, fires up but whines. It's the starter that's whining.

So if the starter engages when the key is turned, but quits when the key turns to off, it should rule out the ignition switch. The starter doesn't grind on the flywheel, nor does it instantly stop whining when the engine shuts off. To me, this says the starter constantly has power when the key is on, but the starter is NOT constantly engaged to the flywheel (meaning it is constantly spinning within its own housing). Does this sound correct?

What is my problem? Bad part or incorrect wiring?

Thanks in advance!
 
Originally Posted By: Oldmoparguy1
There is only one wire to the solenoid . You can't hook it up wrong. Problem is a bad starter. The solenoid is not releasing. Take it back.
No, there is one small wire (can't be installed wrong), the ground wire (hooked to the block - can't be installed wrong) and TWO cables attached to the solenoid (that CAN be installed wrong).

I'm not in disagreement that it could be a bad part, but I'm not saying that I am 100% positive those two wires were re-installed correctly either.
 
Originally Posted By: tony1679
Originally Posted By: Oldmoparguy1
There is only one wire to the solenoid . You can't hook it up wrong. Problem is a bad starter. The solenoid is not releasing. Take it back.
No, there is one small wire (can't be installed wrong), the ground wire (hooked to the block - can't be installed wrong) and TWO cables attached to the solenoid (that CAN be installed wrong).

I'm not in disagreement that it could be a bad part, but I'm not saying that I am 100% positive those two wires were re-installed correctly either.


I apologize, you are correct. The small wire is the one to the solenoid, correct? There should be just one small wire. That is from the start position on the ignition switch circuit. You have already discovered the correct connections for the large, (battery) wires.

Anyway, the start circuit energizes the solenoid, which energizes the starter motor. If the motor continues to spin after the car starts, then either the solenoid is sticking, or the start circuit has a fault of some sort. A possibility is the ignition switch, or a relay in the start circuit. If, after starting there is still voltage on the small wire, then the problem is somewhere in the start circuit itself. If, after starting, there is no voltage on the start wire, then it would seem to be a faulty starter. Remans can be problematic at times. I hope this helps.

Wayne
 
It makes the job frustrating when you install a new part and it acts up. From my experience, I've installed bad parts enough to tell you that's ALWAYS a possibility. Take the starter back and try a new one.
 
There have been cases where someone put the battery cable on top of the one for the motor and left the battery post on the solenoid empty. This makes the motor run all the time.

There have been cases where on GM the starter pinion gear was too tight to the ring gear on the engine and could not release. Google shimming a GM starter, lots of stuff

A very low battery, bad cables, bad ground can make starter solenoid stick. You should have 10 volts while cranking. 6 volts will appear to crank well on these modern starters, but the solenoid is not fully engaged and arcing inside. This could be why the original starter failed. An OEM GM starter usually lasts for over 150K miles if properly treated.

GM has this stupid idea that lock washers are bad. There have been many cases of them coming lose and causing problems. An arced cable must be cleaned or replaced. I believe the connections should have a split lock washer which is also a spring element. GM does not. Are you sure the cable end is clean and not burned black.

And the starter can be bad.

Hope this helps

Rod
 
Last edited:
Another thing for you to check- the small wire (purple I think) should only be hot in cranking. Get under there with a test light and have a helper crank the engine. If it goes out when the helper lets off the key, then the starter is defective. If not, then you've got an electrical issue.

FWIW, I did have to replace one once, with your same basic symptoms... Starter died because the remote starter system didn't shut it off when the engine started. In other words, power was continuously applied until it went up in smoke. Literally.
 
Originally Posted By: ragtoplvr


A very low battery, bad cables, bad ground can make starter solenoid stick.
Rod


This. I know people who have replaced numerous solenoids and starters trying to solve this. Bad battery end up being the issue.
 
Originally Posted By: The_Eric
Another thing for you to check- the small wire (purple I think) should only be hot in cranking. Get under there with a test light and have a helper crank the engine. If it goes out when the helper lets off the key, then the starter is defective. If not, then you've got an electrical issue.


This first before you do anything else. Bit me one time many years ago in dealing with a broken ignition switch. Check the electrical first (quick/easy) then look for a mechanical problem. There is a reason the old starter died, and you are having problems with the new one.
 
Thanks everyone for all the help!
thumbsup2.gif


I went back a few hours after my last post to check again. The problem persisted. I took it back to replace it. I consulted with the counter jockey and showed him a picture of how I wired it up. He said looks good. I consulted a second jockey from a completely different parts chain. He claimed to be the "starter guru" and also confirmed that it was wired correctly, after looking at the same pic. He explained that when I wired it incorrectly for a few seconds initially, I fried the solenoid. Ok, lesson learned...

Got the "new" one on, double checked everything, and started it up. Same problem.
mad.gif


At that point I called my uncle, an ex-ASE master mechanic of 20+ years, now service manager. I hate calling him unless I have to, only because he gets very busy, even when not at work. He asked for a picture. After looking at it he said I indeed did NOT have it wired correctly. The "S" cable was right, but the other two cables were NOT supposed to be on different terminals (as I had them). They should be together on the terminal that DOESN'T connect the solenoid to the starter itself.

The verdict? Problem solved. But I broke one of my golden rules: NEVER accept what a counter jockey says as truth. I understand there are some good ones out there, and I'm not labeling them all the same, but 98% of them don't have a clue.

But the bottom line is I only have myself to blame.
33.gif


Thanks again for the help, even if it went unused. BITOG is freakin awesome!
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