2013 VW Beetle A/C Not Working Right

[Nick1994]

My aunt's 2013 VW Beetle TDI with 23k miles has been having A/C issues. It's been doing it off and on since it was about 6 months old (it's 1.5 years old now). What it does is when the A/C is turned on, it doesn't cool down at all. It's as if the compressor isn't even kicking in (it is). It won't work until miles down the road and playing with the A/C on and off button and waiting it finally starts working and blows ice cold. The dealer on the first visit it had to get this problem resolved tested the switch on the dash and they said it works fine. They also tested the refrigerant pressure levels and they were fine. The A/C still kept having intermittent problems. It went back a few weeks ago to the dealer and they replaced some switching valve (or something like that) and they said it was bad. It worked fine for a couple weeks and then yesterday when driving several miles to the store, it would not cool off at all. I left the car running and popped the hood and the A/C compressor IS running even while the issue is happening. After the engine had been running for 20 minutes (including driving and playing with the switches) the A/C all of a sudden got cold (hadn't touched any switches for a couple minutes). I took the car to the dealer again today and the A/C wasn't blowing cold when I pulled up and the service advisor was able to feel it not blowing cold. They couldn't find anything wrong with it but a technician is driving it home for the night and will try to replicate the issue.

My question is, does anybody have an idea of what could be happening? If they can't find any issues I will be sure they will start replacing parts, whether they say it's bad or not. Driving a car when it's been parked outside all day in 90 degree heat already is not acceptable to me, especially a new car. Luckily it has an extended warranty after the 3 year/36k mile warranty is up, extended to 75k miles.

Thanks guys.

 

[antiqueshell]

Your AC system is capable of displaying trouble codes, I wonder if they have even bothered to use their VW scan tool to check for them?

 

[FowVay]

For some reason Volkswagen cars have trouble with their A/C systems. What I have found is that the refrigerant control valve in the compressor gets corroded and then it doesn't move freely. This results in the A/C having delayed activation.

IF the problem is the refrigerant control valve (RCV)then it is a rather straight forward repair. You evacuate the refrigerant, remove and replace the RCV, and then recharge the A/C system. You don't need to open the system other than removing the externally mounted RCV.

If the dealership is repairing the issue under warranty then they'll will replace the compressor. If you're doing it on your dime then it's MUCH less expensive to change the RCV.

You can buy the RCV from Polar Bear, Inc. (google it) and the part is p/n PXE16 and listed as a control valve.

Good Luck!

 

[01rangerxl]

My truck had very similar symptoms when its A/C compressor relay started going bad, but the problem for me was that the relay wasn't engaging the compressor until after driving around for 15-20 minutes. Since you said the compressor is engaging during the time it's not blowing cold, it shouldn't be the relay in your case.

It may be an internal fault on the actual control head. That's not uncommon on today's more complex electronically controlled HVAC systems. Maybe it's not allowing a temp door to open or something.

 

[antiqueshell]

Right 01rangerxl....

that is why he needs to have them use the VW dedicated scantool that will read ALL codes including those from the BCM. I would bet that there are codes pending, many times those codes for accessories like AC will NOT light the CEL! but will show up as other, or pending but especially for VW and other European cars you need the dedicated scan tool to have them detected.

 

[jyoung8607]

Originally Posted By: Nick1994
What it does is when the A/C is turned on, it doesn't cool down at all. It's as if the compressor isn't even kicking in (it is).

May I ask how you're sure the compressor is kicking in? I haven't personally worked on the AC system of a 2013 Beetle, but I think most relatively modern VWs use variable displacement compressors that will appear to be running all the time. There's no clutch to engage, no kick-in or kick-out. The AC control computer can still drive compressor output to basically zero when that's called for.

It seems likely that the compressor is shut off or set to no displacement when you're blowing hot air. That can happen for lots of reasons, not all of which will cause a fault code to be stored. The key is finding out which one and addressing that problem. Do you have access to Ross-Tech's VCDS? On newer VWs like that, there will still be a diagnostic-capable HVAC control module even on a car with manual HVAC controls. Here's an example list of compressor shut-off reason codes from my own VW. Yours will differ, this is just to give you a taste of what's possible.

; Compressor shut-off codes:
; 0 = Compressor ON: AC switched on - all requirements met
; 1 = Refrigerant pressure too high: > 32 bar
; 2 = Blower motor malfunction: actual voltage < 3 V
; 3 = Refrigerant pressure too low: < 2 bar (depending on outside temperature)
; 4 = (not used)
; 5 = Engine not running or engine runtime < 4 seconds
; 6 = ECON mode activated
; 7 = AC shut off - blower speed 0
; 8 = Outside temperature too low: < -8°C/-5°C
; 9 = Both outside temperature sensors malfunctioning
; 10 = (not used)
; 11 = Engine temperature too high
; 12 = ECU requested shutoff (overheat/kickdown/etc)
; 13 = Voltage too high: Terminal 15 > 17V
; 14 = (not used)
; 15 = (not used)
; 16 = Compressor activation circuit fault - N280 signal missing or implausible
; 17 = Refrigerant pressure monitor circuit fault - G65 signal missing or implausible
; 18 = Intervention load management - A/C stage 2
; 19 = Refrigerant loss - current drive cycle only
; 20 = Refrigerant loss - permanent
; 21 = -8°C/-5°C < outside temperature < 1°C/3°C and no recirc air request
; 22 = -8°C/-5°C < outside temperature < 1°C/3°C and interior temp < 10°C

Jason

 

[Nick1994]

Originally Posted By: jyoung8607
Originally Posted By: Nick1994
What it does is when the A/C is turned on, it doesn't cool down at all. It's as if the compressor isn't even kicking in (it is).

May I ask how you're sure the compressor is kicking in? I haven't personally worked on the AC system of a 2013 Beetle, but I think most relatively modern VWs use variable displacement compressors that will appear to be running all the time. There's no clutch to engage, no kick-in or kick-out. The AC control computer can still drive compressor output to basically zero when that's called for.

It seems likely that the compressor is shut off or set to no displacement when you're blowing hot air. That can happen for lots of reasons, not all of which will cause a fault code to be stored. The key is finding out which one and addressing that problem. Do you have access to Ross-Tech's VCDS? On newer VWs like that, there will still be a diagnostic-capable HVAC control module even on a car with manual HVAC controls. Here's an example list for of compressor shut-off reason codes from my own VW. Yours will differ, this is just to give you a taste of what's possible.

; Compressor shut-off codes:
; 0 = Compressor ON: AC switched on - all requirements met
; 1 = Refrigerant pressure too high: > 32 bar
; 2 = Blower motor malfunction: actual voltage < 3 V
; 3 = Refrigerant pressure too low: < 2 bar (depending on outside temperature)
; 4 = (not used)
; 5 = Engine not running or engine runtime < 4 seconds
; 6 = ECON mode activated
; 7 = AC shut off - blower speed 0
; 8 = Outside temperature too low: < -8°C/-5°C
; 9 = Both outside temperature sensors malfunctioning
; 10 = (not used)
; 11 = Engine temperature too high
; 12 = ECU requested shutoff (overheat/kickdown/etc)
; 13 = Voltage too high: Terminal 15 > 17V
; 14 = (not used)
; 15 = (not used)
; 16 = Compressor activation circuit fault - N280 signal missing or implausible
; 17 = Refrigerant pressure monitor circuit fault - G65 signal missing or implausible
; 18 = Intervention load management - A/C stage 2
; 19 = Refrigerant loss - current drive cycle only
; 20 = Refrigerant loss - permanent
; 21 = -8°C/-5°C < outside temperature < 1°C/3°C and no recirc air request
; 22 = -8°C/-5°C < outside temperature < 1°C/3°C and interior temp < 10°C

Jason
Actually I haven't looked at the compressor with the AC switched off. I just assumed it would be like all other cars I've seen where you can see if the compressor is engaged or not. It's still at the dealership and I haven't heard anything. If they tell me they can't find anything and they haven't replaced any parts, then I am not picking it up. I will be sure they replace SOMETHING. I'll ask if they've used a scan tool on it yet.

 

[Nick1994]

When I talked to them yesterday they said they didn't see anything and a tech will take it home, that the air temperature was 41 degrees out of the vents (about 90 outside). I told them the problem isn't HOW cold it gets, it just sometimes doesn't even attempt to cool off and then when it does click on, it cools off fast and cold.

 

[jyoung8607]

Originally Posted By: Nick1994
When I talked to them yesterday they said they didn't see anything and a tech will take it home, that the air temperature was 41 degrees out of the vents (about 90 outside). I told them the problem isn't HOW cold it gets, it just sometimes doesn't even attempt to cool off and then when it does click on, it cools off fast and cold.

A binary on/off works/doesn't work state makes it very likely there's a compressor shutoff situation... just a matter of finding out why.

1. Check for stored fault codes with a diagnostic tool, which they may/may not have already done. This can be done at any time. If you don't see anything...

2. Check the current compressor shutoff code value with a diagnostic tool. This would have to be done "live" while the car is experiencing the problem. I think it's extremely likely you would see something here. But, if you don't see anything (meaning the compressor is NOT being shut down), then...

3. Evacuate and recharge the system. The only correct way to make sure refrigerant charge is correct on a modern VW is to measure refrigerant charge mass, not system pressure. So, you have to pull out what's in there and weigh in a new charge. If that doesn't help...

4. Then and only then begin to discuss throwing random parts at the problem. That said, virtually any non-electrical part they throw at the problem will require an evac and recharge, which will correct any charge volume problem along the way. It won't necessarily correct a leak, but you say the problem has been fairly static over a long period of time, so there may not be a major leak.

If I absolutely had to guess at the problem, I would say your refrigerant charge may be borderline low. Heat-soaking the system with a running engine may raise pressure just enough to get it over the low pressure threshold. Would you say that working AC is correlated with a fully warmed up engine? Is it generally willing to keep working when the car is fully warmed up but shut off for a short time, as you might do for refueling? Again though, this is an outright guess. VCDS or the dealer scan tool will tell you exactly what's going on.

Jason

 

[Nick1994]

The problem is usually at first startup, which can be in the morning or in the afternoon after the car has sat a while, however, Monday morning I drove it to the dealer (2-3 miles away) and it worked right away, I then turned it off. About 1 mile from the dealer I turned it back on and it didn't work and wouldn't cool off at all. The service advisor felt it wasn't working.

I got a call an hour ago and they said they've put 80 miles on it and can't replicate the problem and can't find anything wrong. I told them to keep it another day and if they can't find anything then they need to start replacing parts, that a $31,000 car should have working A/C, especially when it's already 91 degrees outside. We'll see what they do tomorrow!

 

[jyoung8607]

Originally Posted By: Nick1994
The problem is usually at first startup, which can be in the morning or in the afternoon after the car has sat a while ...

I got a call an hour ago and they said they've put 80 miles on it and can't replicate the problem and can't find anything wrong.

Make sure they're aware of that, if they're not already. If the AC tends to work after the car has been fully warmed up, then no amount of miles driven is going to replicate the problem. Ask them to park it in a service bay overnight, and have the assigned tech start it up at 7AM or whenever he/she comes in. If they can reproduce the problem, they can plug in VAS-PC/ODIS right away and see what the story is.

In the alternative, get hold of Ross-Tech VCDS yourself. It's very useful and will save you many trips to the dealer, both for this car and for the 2004 TDI in your sig. Even if it's under warranty, when you have an intermittent problem, it helps to give them a solid actionable problem report.

Jason

 

[Nick1994]

I just realized I didn't update this thread and I figured I would post what fixed the issue since it might help someone searching for help.

Dealership replaced the A/C compressor and it has worked flawlessly since.

 

[supton]

I wonder if it was the clutch. I think mine just quit--I was on the highway, slowed down in a spot of heavy traffic, then all I could smell was hot brakes. A couple miles later, no ac. I later spun the compressor by hand and it is not frozen; I suppose it could still be bad. But ebay has lots of vendors selling VW ac clutch repair kits. No need to evacuate to replace either.

 

[Nick1994]

Originally Posted By: supton
I wonder if it was the clutch. I think mine just quit--I was on the highway, slowed down in a spot of heavy traffic, then all I could smell was hot brakes. A couple miles later, no ac. I later spun the compressor by hand and it is not frozen; I suppose it could still be bad. But ebay has lots of vendors selling VW ac clutch repair kits. No need to evacuate to replace either.
Are they pricy or hard to replace?

 

[supton]

$110 or so on ebay. What I read indicated not too bad. Have not attempted yet.