Is M1 TDT a true HDEO, equivalent to Delvac1 5W-40

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Hessam

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I did a search going back about 2 years and couldn't find anything on this. So is M1 TDT a true HDEO? Is it just rebranded Delvac 1 5W-40, or is it something aimed at only the consumer truck/SUV market?

Second question is how would TDT compare to the readily available 5w-40 HDEO oils that it's always marketed along side with (T6 & Delo Synthetic 5w-40 weights)?
 
At least when it first came out, tdt was believed to be the same as D1. Delvac 1 has always been elusive, though I did see some at a truck stop recently for $38.99/gal.

When I used to run it, I'd go up to Canada and buy as many 4L jugs as I could.
 
Maybe not all, but 'most' Delvac-1 products have gone over the 'LE' formula for modern diesels.

TDT still seems to be the 'older' product for CI-4 applications.

In Canada these days, you see TDT at WM and CT; and CT also sells Devac-1 0W-40. You occasionally see Delvac-1 5W-40 at other stores, but they seem to be making the 0W-40 product more available now.
 
Originally Posted By: addyguy
Maybe not all, but 'most' Delvac-1 products have gone over the 'LE' formula for modern diesels.


That's right not all. I can still buy Delvac 1 SHC 5W40; 1.9% ash, TBN = 16. I can buy it from my local Mobil distributor. But only in 55 gal lots (11 x 5 gal). One could "make" old style Delvac 1 5W40 with a 50/50 mix of SHC and ESP 5W40s.

Charlie
 
If Delvac 1 is selling for $38 per gallon, then chances are very slim thatT M1 TDT is the same formulation.

M1 TDT does not carry many certs as its closest retail counterparts.

Here are certs for M1 TDT:
API CJ-4, CI-4 PLUS, CI-4, CH-4/SM, SL, SJ
ACEA E7 Issue 2
Caterpillar ECF-2,ECF-3


And Here are certs for T6:
API CJ-4, CI-4 PLUS, CI-4, CH-4, SM, SL, SH; ACEA E9; Caterpillar ECF-3, ECF-2; Cummins CES 20081; DDC 93K218; Ford WSS M2C171-E; JASO DH-2, MA; Mack EO-O Premium Plus; MB Approval 228.31; Volvo VDS-4

And here's Delo 400® LE Synthetic SAE 5W-40 Approvals:
• API Service Categories CJ-4, CI-4 PLUS, CI-4, SM • ACEA European Service Categories E-7
• Cummins CES 20081 • Daimler MB 228.31 • Detroit Diesel Corp.
Power Guard Oil Specification 93K218, 93K214
• Mack EO-O Premium Plus 07 • Renault RLD-3
• Volvo VDS-4
Delo® 400 LE Synthetic SAE 5W-40 meets the performance requirements of:
• Caterpillar ECF-3, ECF-2
• MTU Category 1
 
And Delvac 1 5W-40:
Mobil Delvac 1 meets or exceeds the requirements of: 5W-40
API CI-4 PLUS/CI-4/CH-4/SL/SJ
ACEA E7/E4
Cummins CES 20078/20077/20076/20075
Ford WSS-M2C171-D
Renault Trucks RXD
Global DHD-1
JASO DH-1


Mobil Delvac 1 5W-40 has the following builder approvals: 5W-40
Detroit Fluids Specification 93K214
Mack EO-N Premium Plus 03, EO-M Plus
MB-Approval 235.28
MB-Approval 228.5
Scania LDF
Voith Retarder Oil Class B
Volvo VDS-3, VDS-2
 
Originally Posted By: Hessam
If Delvac 1 is selling for $38 per gallon, then chances are very slim thatT M1 TDT is the same formulation.



Except that it was $38.99 at a truck stop, where delvac 1300 was $26!
 
M1 TDT is the consumer grade version, and is not the same as Delvac 1 ESP 5w-40. In the CI-4+ days, they were the same, but no longer. The Delvac 1 ESP 5w-40 is the current commercial grade CJ-4 product. Up here, Imperial Oil hasn't sold CI-4+ stuff since the old stock disappeared after the CJ-4 rollout, and that didn't take long. There are certain exceptions, as m37charlie points out, but, at least up in Canada, that's only for one or two products that were left alone for legacy applications, like SHC or some two stroke stuff. Regular CI-4+ stuff is long gone.

Delvac 1 ESP 5w-40 tends to be under $30 a gallon here at the distributor. Walmart sells TDT, and they want close to $50 a gallon, but they're simply nuts with their "regular" oil prices.

The Delvac 1 ESP 5w-40 and Delvac 1 LE 5w-30 carry the most certifications of all their HDEOs.
 
TDT is certainly a HDEO.
It was once thought to be rebranded Delvac 1, but that has not been the case in many years.
Delvac 1 was at the time considered the grail, maybe because it was so hard to find.
As compared to Delo or T6, TDT is almost always more expensive.
IIRC, it's also considerably thicker than either Delo or Rotella 5W-40, so it would probably not be a good choice for winter use or maybe any use, unless you specifically wanted something with higher HTHSV and you weren't concerned about low temperature performance.
Those here who've used TDT seem to be happy with it in both diesel and gas applications.
 
So if TDT is a HDEO why don't they advertise that on the bottle. No where on the bottle (back or front) does it say Heavey Duty Engine Oil.
Also what about TDT not have the certifications/approvals as it retail counterparts T6, and Delo S?

Are you guys saying TDT could easily be certified for Ford / Mercedes / Mack / Detriot Diesel / Volvo / Cummins .. But ExxonMobil just didn't bother getting those certifications? Or does TDT not have the required base stock & add packs to get those approvals?
 
It meets reasonably current API diesel specs, making it a HDEO.
It also meets reasonably current API SI specs, so it's a dual rated HDEO.
Is your only concern that it doesn't say "Heavy Duty" on the label?
 
Originally Posted By: sdude2k2000
Mobil 1 TDT is most definitely an HDEO. I've used it in my Powerstroke without issue. It's a borderline 15w40 though with its cold pumping specs.


?

If it meets the requirements for a 5w-40, it is a 5w-40. If it didn't, it would be a 10w-40 or 15w-40.
 
Quick synthetic comparison... maybe not as thick as a 15w40 conventional, but compare it to the amsoil 15w40, Royal Purple 15w40, and Redline 15w40 synthetics.

Mobil 1 TDT 5w40
Viscosity, cSt (ASTM D445)
@ 40ºC 97.9
@ 100ºC 14.5

Amsoil AME 15w40
Kinematic Viscosity @ 40°C, cSt (ASTM D445) 98.4
Kinematic Viscosity @ 100°C, cSt (ASTM D445) 14.5

Royal Purple 15w40
cSt @ 40C 105
cSt @ 100C 14.8

Redline 15w40
Vis @ 40°C, cSt 97
Vis @ 100°C, cSt 14.5

Rotella T6 5w40
Kinematic Viscosity @40C mm2/s (ASTM D445) 87
Kinematic Viscosity @100C mm2/s (ASTM D445) 14.2

Delo 5w40
Viscosity, Kinematic cSt at 40°C/cSt 88.5
at 100°C Viscosity 14.6
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: sdude2k2000
Quick synthetic comparison... maybe not as thick as a 15w40 conventional, but compare it to the amsoil 15w40, Royal Purple 15w40, and Redline 15w40 synthetics.

Mobil 1 TDT 5w40
Viscosity, cSt (ASTM D445)
@ 40ºC 97.9
@ 100ºC 14.5

Amsoil AME 15w40
Kinematic Viscosity @ 40°C, cSt (ASTM D445) 98.4
Kinematic Viscosity @ 100°C, cSt (ASTM D445) 14.5

Royal Purple 15w40
cSt @ 40C 105
cSt @ 100C 14.8

Redline 15w40
Vis @ 40°C, cSt 97
Vis @ 100°C, cSt 14.5

Rotella T6 5w40
Kinematic Viscosity @40C mm2/s (ASTM D445) 87
Kinematic Viscosity @100C mm2/s (ASTM D445) 14.2

Delo 5w40
Viscosity, Kinematic cSt at 40°C/cSt 88.5
at 100°C Viscosity 14.6


That's because they are all 40 grades. The 5w-xx comes from its ability to meet the CCS/MRV requirements for the 5w "winter" designation, not its hot viscosity.
 
And to just further expand on this for the sake of clarity:

SAEJ3002009.JPG


According to the PDS for AME 15w-40:
CCS @ -20C: 4,892cP

So we know that it is > 7,000cP @ -25C (using the doubling rule, it is probably closer to 10,000cP).

In comparison, we know that M1 TDT 5w-40 is < 6,600cP @ -30C, which is the limit for the 5w-xx designation. Assuming it may be close to the limit, like say, 6,200cP, it would be:

CCS @ -30C: 6,200cP
CCS @ -25C: 3,100cP
CCS @ -20C: 1,550cP

So its cold temp performance, despite it being a "thick" 40 when hot, is significantly better than the AME; more than 3x thinner at -20C.
 
Is the doubling rule a Mobile thing or just for basic comparison? It doesn't even come close for Schaeffer's 5w40.

Schaeffer 9000 5w40

2565cP @ -20C

3968cP @ -25C

4311cP @ -30C

These are published numbers off their website
 
I think you missed my point... I wasn't focused on the warm temp values, but the cold temp ones.

T6 5w40 = 87
Delo 5w40 = 88.5
Redline 15w40 = 97
M1 5w40 = 97.9
Amsoil AME 15w40 = 98.4

The TDT does have a lower HTHS value (3.8) than all the listed oils, which may play into why it's able to maintain pumping ability at lower temps despite being thicker than the other 5w's I listed at cold temp.
21.gif
Mobil seems to take the same approach with their Delvac 5w40 as well (higher viscosity, lower HTHS).

I was only making an observation.
 
Originally Posted By: sdude2k2000
I think you missed my point... I wasn't focused on the warm temp values, but the cold temp ones.

The "cold temp" ones to which you refer are KV40, which have nothing to do with the number before the "w" in an oil grade.
 
Originally Posted By: jrmason


Is the doubling rule a Mobile thing or just for basic comparison? It doesn't even come close for Schaeffer's 5w40.

Schaeffer 9000 5w40

2565cP @ -20C

3968cP @ -25C

4311cP @ -30C

These are published numbers off their website


It's just a general "rule of thumb" to extrapolate CCS or MRV backward from the test point. It is usually relatively accurate.

BTW, can you link me to that data? According to the TDS for the 9000 5w-40:
http://www.schaefferoil.com/documents/247-9003D-td.pdf

CCS is 5,700cP @ -30C
MRV is 20,900cP @ -35C

21.gif
 
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