20w/50 SYN3 - Oil remains in service.
2014 Harley Davidson 103B - 495mi (1494mi total) - HD SYN3
- Thread starter DuckRyder
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Nice running V-Twin . I've got 13k on my 2012 103 & she purrs! I've noticed break in improvements to 10k which is when these motors are finally broken in. Enjoy!
Harleys are notorious for lots of metal the first few oil changes. I have owned a few new bikes and always change the oil at 200, 500 and 1,000 miles. Then every 5k after break in.
Originally Posted By: Blkstanger
Harleys are notorious for lots of metal the first few oil changes. I have owned a few new bikes and always change the oil at 200, 500 and 1,000 miles. Then every 5k after break in.
Me too...100/500/1000 then every year or 5000
Harleys are notorious for lots of metal the first few oil changes. I have owned a few new bikes and always change the oil at 200, 500 and 1,000 miles. Then every 5k after break in.
Me too...100/500/1000 then every year or 5000
Nice and thank you for posting all these UOAs, Its a great help to me as well. I like looking at the makeup of the oil, not that it matters .... and if you remember, I told you the numbers will start to drop dramatically.
I have the 14 Road King, changed the OEM fill at exactly 1000 miles using Conv Harley 360. Im up to 2600 miles now and will change it by or before MAY and run a UOA on it. I know it will look like a mess, as the engine is breaking i, but seeing yours, I now know what to expect.
)
Ps, say what some will about the HD oils, but I have to say, the viscosity of their oils are nice and robust. I like that.
I have the 14 Road King, changed the OEM fill at exactly 1000 miles using Conv Harley 360. Im up to 2600 miles now and will change it by or before MAY and run a UOA on it. I know it will look like a mess, as the engine is breaking i, but seeing yours, I now know what to expect.
)Ps, say what some will about the HD oils, but I have to say, the viscosity of their oils are nice and robust. I like that.
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so Tin goes up by 50%
nickel goes up by 100%
and no comment???!!!
yes some others went down, but explain those 2?
how is potassium now more than 1st test?
how/why did lead jump from 1st to 2nd test?
susvis and flash look very good!
nickel goes up by 100%
and no comment???!!!
yes some others went down, but explain those 2?
how is potassium now more than 1st test?
how/why did lead jump from 1st to 2nd test?
susvis and flash look very good!
I can remember the first time I dumped the oil on my brand new Harley. It was as if someone had dumped glitter into the drain pan. I freaked out. I tore the engine down at 32k for big bore and cams and it looked new inside. Still had the coating on the pistons even.
Originally Posted By: sunruh
so Tin goes up by 50%
nickel goes up by 100%
and no comment???!!!
yes some others went down, but explain those 2?
I'm all ears, I noticed the same thing.
I'm wondering if the fact that an oil change on a HD still leaves a fair amount of dirty oil in the oiling system has anything to do with it. (some say up to a QT)
Originally Posted By: sunruh
how is potassium now more than 1st test?
how/why did lead jump from 1st to 2nd test?
susvis and flash look very good!
The other UOA's are here but it is probably important to reiterate that the oil was not changed at the initial 495 or this 495. The oil was changed (PER HD Schedule) at the 999 mile mark (1000 mile service). I hope to be able to resample this fill @ 1998 (999miles on fill). The factory fill should be HD360 and this is SYN3.
I know the engine is still breaking in to some extent, so I'm not concerned as long as things continue to trend downward post changes.
so Tin goes up by 50%
nickel goes up by 100%
and no comment???!!!
yes some others went down, but explain those 2?
I'm all ears, I noticed the same thing.
I'm wondering if the fact that an oil change on a HD still leaves a fair amount of dirty oil in the oiling system has anything to do with it. (some say up to a QT)
Originally Posted By: sunruh
how is potassium now more than 1st test?
how/why did lead jump from 1st to 2nd test?
susvis and flash look very good!
The other UOA's are here but it is probably important to reiterate that the oil was not changed at the initial 495 or this 495. The oil was changed (PER HD Schedule) at the 999 mile mark (1000 mile service). I hope to be able to resample this fill @ 1998 (999miles on fill). The factory fill should be HD360 and this is SYN3.
I know the engine is still breaking in to some extent, so I'm not concerned as long as things continue to trend downward post changes.
[/quote]
I'm all ears, I noticed the same thing.
I'm wondering if the fact that an oil change on a HD still leaves a fair amount of dirty oil in the oiling system has anything to do with it. (some say up to a QT)
I'm all ears, I noticed the same thing.
I'm wondering if the fact that an oil change on a HD still leaves a fair amount of dirty oil in the oiling system has anything to do with it. (some say up to a QT)
sunruh said:
I always drive my cars, trucks and bike for a good 10 miles or so before a change, making sure the oil is good and hot.
I think a fair amount of oil remains in the bike, maybe the oil cooler? Next time I'll pay attention to how much I put in, I go by the dipstick.
Also when doing a UOA the oil should be hot and collected from the middle of the drain. I wonder how much of the UOAs in here are skewed because of improper collection method.
I think a fair amount of oil remains in the bike, maybe the oil cooler? Next time I'll pay attention to how much I put in, I go by the dipstick.
Also when doing a UOA the oil should be hot and collected from the middle of the drain. I wonder how much of the UOAs in here are skewed because of improper collection method.
Originally Posted By: alarmguy
I always drive my cars, trucks and bike for a good 10 miles or so before a change, making sure the oil is good and hot.
I think a fair amount of oil remains in the bike, maybe the oil cooler? Next time I'll pay attention to how much I put in, I go by the dipstick.
Also when doing a UOA the oil should be hot and collected from the middle of the drain. I wonder how much of the UOAs in here are skewed because of improper collection method.
We attempted to discuss it before, but everyone wanted to argue about whether a RoadKing actually had an oil tank or not. I'm not sure if that has appreciable impact on the results or not. But all of my samples on this bike have been collected from the oil tank with a Blackstone pump.
The bike was good and warm in each case. This sample was immediately following a 230+ mile ride...
I will collect the next sample in the same manner so that the UOA's will be comparable, but once I'm done with the intermediate samples, I'll begin collecting from the middle drain stream just like I do the cars.
I always drive my cars, trucks and bike for a good 10 miles or so before a change, making sure the oil is good and hot.
I think a fair amount of oil remains in the bike, maybe the oil cooler? Next time I'll pay attention to how much I put in, I go by the dipstick.
Also when doing a UOA the oil should be hot and collected from the middle of the drain. I wonder how much of the UOAs in here are skewed because of improper collection method.
We attempted to discuss it before, but everyone wanted to argue about whether a RoadKing actually had an oil tank or not. I'm not sure if that has appreciable impact on the results or not. But all of my samples on this bike have been collected from the oil tank with a Blackstone pump.
The bike was good and warm in each case. This sample was immediately following a 230+ mile ride...
I will collect the next sample in the same manner so that the UOA's will be comparable, but once I'm done with the intermediate samples, I'll begin collecting from the middle drain stream just like I do the cars.
Originally Posted By: DuckRyder
Originally Posted By: alarmguy
I always drive my cars, trucks and bike for a good 10 miles or so before a change, making sure the oil is good and hot.
I think a fair amount of oil remains in the bike, maybe the oil cooler? Next time I'll pay attention to how much I put in, I go by the dipstick.
Also when doing a UOA the oil should be hot and collected from the middle of the drain. I wonder how much of the UOAs in here are skewed because of improper collection method.
We attempted to discuss it before, but everyone wanted to argue about whether a RoadKing actually had an oil tank or not. I'm not sure if that has appreciable impact on the results or not. But all of my samples on this bike have been collected from the oil tank with a Blackstone pump.
The bike was good and warm in each case. This sample was immediately following a 230+ mile ride...
I will collect the next sample in the same manner so that the UOA's will be comparable, but once I'm done with the intermediate samples, I'll begin collecting from the middle drain stream just like I do the cars.
Of course it has an oil tank. All big twins are dry sump.
Originally Posted By: alarmguy
I always drive my cars, trucks and bike for a good 10 miles or so before a change, making sure the oil is good and hot.
I think a fair amount of oil remains in the bike, maybe the oil cooler? Next time I'll pay attention to how much I put in, I go by the dipstick.
Also when doing a UOA the oil should be hot and collected from the middle of the drain. I wonder how much of the UOAs in here are skewed because of improper collection method.
We attempted to discuss it before, but everyone wanted to argue about whether a RoadKing actually had an oil tank or not. I'm not sure if that has appreciable impact on the results or not. But all of my samples on this bike have been collected from the oil tank with a Blackstone pump.
The bike was good and warm in each case. This sample was immediately following a 230+ mile ride...
I will collect the next sample in the same manner so that the UOA's will be comparable, but once I'm done with the intermediate samples, I'll begin collecting from the middle drain stream just like I do the cars.
Of course it has an oil tank. All big twins are dry sump.
Originally Posted By: Blkstanger
...Of course it has an oil tank. All big twins are dry sump.
NOT HERE, NOT AGAIN!!!
Take that to this thread...
...Of course it has an oil tank. All big twins are dry sump.
NOT HERE, NOT AGAIN!!!
Take that to this thread...
Originally Posted By: DuckRyder
Originally Posted By: Blkstanger
...Of course it has an oil tank. All big twins are dry sump.
NOT HERE, NOT AGAIN!!!
Take that to this thread...
I have owned Harley Touring bikes most of my adult life. I have torn them down and have seen with my own eyes how the oiling system works. Im not about to get into a [censored] war with someone that has no first hand knowledge on the subject.
Originally Posted By: Blkstanger
...Of course it has an oil tank. All big twins are dry sump.
NOT HERE, NOT AGAIN!!!
Take that to this thread...
I have owned Harley Touring bikes most of my adult life. I have torn them down and have seen with my own eyes how the oiling system works. Im not about to get into a [censored] war with someone that has no first hand knowledge on the subject.
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Yes, I stayed out of that discussion, to me it doesnt matter, good hot well circulated oil will still have everything in suspension. Then again, never really thought about it or cared to think about it. Was just following the labs instructions on how to take a sample.
We all know there is a lot of talk in here, a lot of it based on the words people read from oil company marketing and other stuff that is just not true, though the poster believes it to be.
Honestly we all can get caught up in that. Only reason I am bringing it up is, heck, might even be higher up in this thread, I got into a debate of defending myself because someone thought I was defending/promoting Harleys own brand of oil.
I never look to promote anything, I but my statement is factual as I believe it to be, The Conventional HD 360 is a solid oil and UOAs have proven it to be true, so to me, in reality for a "specialty oil" $32 a gallon isnt to bad, considering its an OEM part.
Anyway, this poster accusing me of what I wasnt doing states, and "look at that high amount of Boron, a cheap antiwear additive in place of ...."
Whatever, but its comments like that, that less informed believe yet there is no science or FACT relating to what he said.
The fact is, HD 360 is a solid oil and does use a healthy dose of Boron, but so do some heavy duty diesel oils and (the reason for this post) I just got off the Petroleum Quality Institute website and noticed, by shear luck I happen to notice, one of the most respected names in the oil industry, Amsoil, has a major dose of Boron in its 5/30 automobile oil, so much for leading people to believe, Boron in some way is inferior.
This is a good site, it kind of shows how much similar oils are instead of dissimilar.
In fact, I think we maybe better off using Automotive and Diesel oils (or the OEM brands) then some "specialty oils for motorcycles" as who is policing them?
In my mind, for now, I am sticking with the HD360 in the engine but I do have to make a decision in the next month or so. I am also tempted by Mystic 15/50, I just wish I could find a voa or uoa though I am found posts in here with nothing negative said, also it is part of the Citgo group so I am sure it is fine.
The only, only reason I am thinking the Mystic brand is that is MAY BE a close formula to HD SYNTHETIC 360. As the Mystic brand is Citgo and a semi synthetic. Again, all speculation, except they are both made by the same parent company Citgo.
This is a cool site, posted in another thread Pertoleum Quality Institute Here is the REAL deal on oil.
Here is the ref to boron in the oil, proof that not only HD uses it but also Amsoil. Click for proof
We all know there is a lot of talk in here, a lot of it based on the words people read from oil company marketing and other stuff that is just not true, though the poster believes it to be.
Honestly we all can get caught up in that. Only reason I am bringing it up is, heck, might even be higher up in this thread, I got into a debate of defending myself because someone thought I was defending/promoting Harleys own brand of oil.
I never look to promote anything, I but my statement is factual as I believe it to be, The Conventional HD 360 is a solid oil and UOAs have proven it to be true, so to me, in reality for a "specialty oil" $32 a gallon isnt to bad, considering its an OEM part.
Anyway, this poster accusing me of what I wasnt doing states, and "look at that high amount of Boron, a cheap antiwear additive in place of ...."
Whatever, but its comments like that, that less informed believe yet there is no science or FACT relating to what he said.
The fact is, HD 360 is a solid oil and does use a healthy dose of Boron, but so do some heavy duty diesel oils and (the reason for this post) I just got off the Petroleum Quality Institute website and noticed, by shear luck I happen to notice, one of the most respected names in the oil industry, Amsoil, has a major dose of Boron in its 5/30 automobile oil, so much for leading people to believe, Boron in some way is inferior.
This is a good site, it kind of shows how much similar oils are instead of dissimilar.
In fact, I think we maybe better off using Automotive and Diesel oils (or the OEM brands) then some "specialty oils for motorcycles" as who is policing them?
In my mind, for now, I am sticking with the HD360 in the engine but I do have to make a decision in the next month or so. I am also tempted by Mystic 15/50, I just wish I could find a voa or uoa though I am found posts in here with nothing negative said, also it is part of the Citgo group so I am sure it is fine.
The only, only reason I am thinking the Mystic brand is that is MAY BE a close formula to HD SYNTHETIC 360. As the Mystic brand is Citgo and a semi synthetic. Again, all speculation, except they are both made by the same parent company Citgo.
This is a cool site, posted in another thread Pertoleum Quality Institute Here is the REAL deal on oil.
Here is the ref to boron in the oil, proof that not only HD uses it but also Amsoil. Click for proof
I know a number of HD and Japanese bike owners that use 15-50 Mystic.
Don't know of or heard of any problems using it.
I found this VOA on it. (Doing a Google search) It's couple of years old.
Results were:
Cal. 1100
Mag. 962
Phosp. 895
Zinc 1063
SUS vis. @210*f 89.4
cST vis @ 100*c 17.83
Flash point 425*f
TBN= 10.0
Don't know of or heard of any problems using it.
I found this VOA on it. (Doing a Google search) It's couple of years old.
Results were:
Cal. 1100
Mag. 962
Phosp. 895
Zinc 1063
SUS vis. @210*f 89.4
cST vis @ 100*c 17.83
Flash point 425*f
TBN= 10.0
Thanks LC, Funny after you posted that I ran across that UOA too. But yes, an old one and not complete too.
Its good to hear the feedback on the oil. Im pretty much set on trying the Mystik in the future, maybe because I am more curious then anything else as it matches the recommended rating and viscosity and a semi as well. For fun I would like to do a VOA and UOA on it.
I found it online at a pretty good price with shipping. Oops and I can also get it at my local Oriellys Auto Parts within 3 days after order.
Honestly, the only reason that I started looking around was someone posted in here and he is correct, Harley took their Conventional 360 and Primary+ off their website. If that is the case, one might assume Harley is just going to market only HD360 synthetic. Only time will tell, I am using that set up, Primary+ and HD 360 Conventional.
If that is the case, I am sure the Syn 360 is a fine oil but at just over $14 a quart with tax at my local Harley dealers, sorry but no way will I pay that for a quart of oil. Its just principle as there are many fine oils that test just as well and better from Valvoline, Amsoil, Shell, Mobile, Castrol etc. Heck, conv Valvoline Motorcycle oil is $10 less a quart and an oil I REALLY liked in my past bike..
So anyway, just looking towards the future, my next change by April will be most likely still use the HD360 20/50 conventional as there is no evidence in my local HD dealers that the conventional 360 is being discontinued. Im ok with paying $8 a quart for HD boutique oil in a motorcycle but not more, not when I can buy the almost same product in Valvoline, in Walmart for $4. or Amsoil for still less then the HD oil, well Almost.
BTW, A big thank you is in order for Duckryder for all these UOAs on the HD oils.
Its good to hear the feedback on the oil. Im pretty much set on trying the Mystik in the future, maybe because I am more curious then anything else as it matches the recommended rating and viscosity and a semi as well. For fun I would like to do a VOA and UOA on it.
I found it online at a pretty good price with shipping. Oops and I can also get it at my local Oriellys Auto Parts within 3 days after order.
Honestly, the only reason that I started looking around was someone posted in here and he is correct, Harley took their Conventional 360 and Primary+ off their website. If that is the case, one might assume Harley is just going to market only HD360 synthetic. Only time will tell, I am using that set up, Primary+ and HD 360 Conventional.
If that is the case, I am sure the Syn 360 is a fine oil but at just over $14 a quart with tax at my local Harley dealers, sorry but no way will I pay that for a quart of oil. Its just principle as there are many fine oils that test just as well and better from Valvoline, Amsoil, Shell, Mobile, Castrol etc. Heck, conv Valvoline Motorcycle oil is $10 less a quart and an oil I REALLY liked in my past bike..
So anyway, just looking towards the future, my next change by April will be most likely still use the HD360 20/50 conventional as there is no evidence in my local HD dealers that the conventional 360 is being discontinued. Im ok with paying $8 a quart for HD boutique oil in a motorcycle but not more, not when I can buy the almost same product in Valvoline, in Walmart for $4. or Amsoil for still less then the HD oil, well Almost.
BTW, A big thank you is in order for Duckryder for all these UOAs on the HD oils.
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I spoke with my farmer friend George yesterday. He owns a 1999 HD Ultra. I knew he had been running Mystic 15w50 in his HD since new, so I asked him about it. He said he had 89,000 on his bike now with out any problems. Uses the oil for his motor and primary. Made the comment that if it's good enough to run in his $300,000 combine and $150,000 tractors, than it's good enough for his HD.
Yes and again it meets HDs recommended viscosity and C rating. I'm pretty darn sure it costs the same to make any of these oils, just mystik sells at a lower markup. They don't actively market or promote it as far as I know, just a good price. Granted as some boutique oils and HDs oil as well as other OEM oils, your lacking huge production volumes which I can only assume lowers cost, maybe, I have no idea. But think its pretty safe to say, they are all more similar then dissimilar.
Tough there are some standouts but many of them are not the Boutique oils, except Amsoil which I'll concede, my feelings are they are a stand out company.
Tough there are some standouts but many of them are not the Boutique oils, except Amsoil which I'll concede, my feelings are they are a stand out company.
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Originally Posted By: alarmguy
Yes and again it meets HDs recommended viscosity and C rating. I'm pretty darn sure it costs the same to make any of these oils, just mystik sells at a lower markup. They don't actively market or promote it as far as I know, just a good price. Granted as some boutique oils and HDs oil as well as other OEM oils, your lacking huge production volumes which I can only assume lowers cost, maybe, I have no idea. But think its pretty safe to say, they are all more similar then dissimilar.
Tough there are some standouts but many of them are not the Boutique oils, except Amsoil which I'll concede, my feelings are they are a stand out company.
My HD manual only has a C rating for diesel oil. Run any 20-50 and you will be fine. HD 20-50 has no C rating on their oil.
Yes and again it meets HDs recommended viscosity and C rating. I'm pretty darn sure it costs the same to make any of these oils, just mystik sells at a lower markup. They don't actively market or promote it as far as I know, just a good price. Granted as some boutique oils and HDs oil as well as other OEM oils, your lacking huge production volumes which I can only assume lowers cost, maybe, I have no idea. But think its pretty safe to say, they are all more similar then dissimilar.
Tough there are some standouts but many of them are not the Boutique oils, except Amsoil which I'll concede, my feelings are they are a stand out company.
My HD manual only has a C rating for diesel oil. Run any 20-50 and you will be fine. HD 20-50 has no C rating on their oil.
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