Grocery store gas

[JustinH]

my rule of thumb was to buy from a new gas station that gets a lot of traffic.

Never had a problem.

It has been Costco if I get down that way, or the brand new Valero store in my neighborhood.

Neither of my cars can tell a difference between either fuel.

Costco does have top tier signage on all of their pumps however.

 

[wemay]

Good ol' Scotty Kilmer...

http://youtu.be/gg9ppeUMpK4

 

[wemay]

From Motortrend:

http://blogs.motortrend.com/1403_all_fuels_are_not_created_equal_technologue.html

 

[jk_636]

Originally Posted By: wemay
Good ol' Scotty Kilmer...

http://youtu.be/gg9ppeUMpK4


Scotty Kilmer is a great source for information. Though some of his methods are controversial, he has a lot of valuable input. He has visited the Shell houston refinery multiple times and published some really interesting insider information that he got while he was there.

Originally Posted By: wemay
From Motortrend:

http://blogs.motortrend.com/1403_all_fuels_are_not_created_equal_technologue.html


More really good information on top tier gasoline.

Good job on the posts Wemay!

So overkill, kschackn and shannow, your arguments are based on personal vendettas; that are, sorry to say, petty at best. To make a long story short, you can pretty much go pound salt. There is a lot of evidence out there proving that top tier gasoline is not typically (unless you count costco) found in grocery stores and not all gasolines are created equal.

Oh and here is some more information on shell gasoline with scotty kilmer. Enjoy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IPJ293icNE

 

[kschachn]

Sure thing, whatever you say. You win, take it and run.

I didn't know you were talking about Top Tier gasolines in general, I thought you were saying only Shell was worthy.

Originally Posted By: jk_636
So overkill, kschackn and shannow, your arguments are based on personal vendettas; that are, sorry to say, petty at best. To make a long story short, you can pretty much go pound salt. There is a lot of evidence out there proving that top tier gasoline is not typically (unless you count costco) found in grocery stores and not all gasolines are created equal.

 

[TiredTrucker]

This is all entertaining and interesting, but of little use to most folks typically outside metro and higher popullation areas.

Fact, regardless of who owns the "tank farm" or terminal, they get their supply from a variety of refineries. Refineries alternate all the time for various reasons. And refineries also get their base stocks for refining from a variety of sources.

Now, everyone in the general area is going to get their retail gas supply from one of several tank farms in the area. Again, it alternates. It is EXTREMELY rare for a branded station to have their own gas brand in the storage tanks.

What comes out of the nozzle when you fill your vehicle is rarely, if ever, the brand of gas of the brand of station. Now true, when fuel is loaded at the tank farm, additives per the customer standards are added into the fuel stream. I tanked fuel for several years and have seen all of this first hand. Ask any tanker yanker.

Now, regarding whether it is top tier or not, a large chunk of the country does not have top tier outlet conveniently near them. They are hardly ever, if ever, going to fill with top tier. They are not going to drive 40-50 miles or more to get access to top tier when they have a gas station 5 miles away near them. Yet, you see these fly over country vehicles lasting well into 200K miles with no fuel system issues or cats failing. Some will toss in some additive like Techron occasionally, but a lot of folks do nothing.

 

[Jcp123]

I stick to Chevron/Texaco, known good quality fuel with Techron already blended in, and unlike where I lived in California, there's no price premium.

I have run the local grocery store's gas, I did notice about a 5%drop in fuel economy. Not sure why, but it's been that way every time get it. So, when I have a points balance to get discount fuel, I put it in the wife's Kia and fill my gas cans for the mower too

 

[badtlc]

Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
This is all entertaining and interesting, but of little use to most folks typically outside metro and higher popullation areas.

Fact, regardless of who owns the "tank farm" or terminal, they get their supply from a variety of refineries. Refineries alternate all the time for various reasons. And refineries also get their base stocks for refining from a variety of sources.

Now, everyone in the general area is going to get their retail gas supply from one of several tank farms in the area. Again, it alternates. It is EXTREMELY rare for a branded station to have their own gas brand in the storage tanks.

What comes out of the nozzle when you fill your vehicle is rarely, if ever, the brand of gas of the brand of station. Now true, when fuel is loaded at the tank farm, additives per the customer standards are added into the fuel stream. I tanked fuel for several years and have seen all of this first hand. Ask any tanker yanker.

Now, regarding whether it is top tier or not, a large chunk of the country does not have top tier outlet conveniently near them. They are hardly ever, if ever, going to fill with top tier. They are not going to drive 40-50 miles or more to get access to top tier when they have a gas station 5 miles away near them. Yet, you see these fly over country vehicles lasting well into 200K miles with no fuel system issues or cats failing. Some will toss in some additive like Techron occasionally, but a lot of folks do nothing.


You sound confused as to what top tier is. top tier has nothing to do with the gasoline source but only the additives added. Two companies can get their gas from the same gasoline refinery and one can be top tier and the other not.

 

[y_p_w]

Originally Posted By: badtlc
You sound confused as to what top tier is. top tier has nothing to do with the gasoline source but only the additives added. Two companies can get their gas from the same gasoline refinery and one can be top tier and the other not.

I've been following TiredTrucker long enough to know that he fully understands what Top Tier is and isn't, and probably has a better grasp on commodity fuel distribution than pretty much any other poster in this forum. He was possibly the first on this forum to describe how the majority of "branded" additive packages (including Top Tier brands) are added at the fuel racks to commodity fuel. He's stated that the fuel trucker comes in for a scheduled pickup with the end customer already set up, and where the automated system meters the precise amount of additive for that particular brand. Also - the base fuel is likely to be a mixture of the output of different refineries, sent via pipeline.

He was just commenting that the brand name at the pump doesn't necessarily match the name on the refinery. Around where I live there are five major refineries - Chevron, Shell (formerly SOPUS), Phillips (formerly ConocoPhillips and before that Tosco and before that Unocal), Valero (formely Exxon), and Tesoro (formerly Tosco and before that Avon). It's pretty clear that when one refinery has a major accident or shuts down that the brand of the base fuel isn't going to be the brand of the pump fuel. Right now the Tesoro refinery in Martinez is shut down due to a strike, and local Tesoro and ARCO stations (Tesoro's brand name) aren't exactly shut down.

 

[badtlc]

Originally Posted By: y_p_w
Originally Posted By: badtlc
You sound confused as to what top tier is. top tier has nothing to do with the gasoline source but only the additives added. Two companies can get their gas from the same gasoline refinery and one can be top tier and the other not.

I've been following TiredTrucker long enough to know that he fully understands what Top Tier is and isn't, and probably has a better grasp on commodity fuel distribution than pretty much any other poster in this forum. He was possibly the first on this forum to describe how the majority of "branded" additive packages (including Top Tier brands) are added at the fuel racks to commodity fuel. He's stated that the fuel trucker comes in for a scheduled pickup with the end customer already set up, and where the automated system meters the precise amount of additive for that particular brand. Also - the base fuel is likely to be a mixture of the output of different refineries, sent via pipeline.

He was just commenting that the brand name at the pump doesn't necessarily match the name on the refinery. Around where I live there are five major refineries - Chevron, Shell (formerly SOPUS), Phillips (formerly ConocoPhillips and before that Tosco and before that Unocal), Valero (formely Exxon), and Tesoro (formerly Tosco and before that Avon). It's pretty clear that when one refinery has a major accident or shuts down that the brand of the base fuel isn't going to be the brand of the pump fuel. Right now the Tesoro refinery in Martinez is shut down due to a strike, and local Tesoro and ARCO stations (Tesoro's brand name) aren't exactly shut down.


and again, the base gasoline has nothing to do with Top Tier.

 

[wemay]

Originally Posted By: badtlc

and again, the base gasoline has nothing to do with Top Tier.

 

[y_p_w]

Originally Posted By: badtlc

and again, the base gasoline has nothing to do with Top Tier.

But that's not what he was addressing. The mention of Top Tier was just a footnote about one going out of the way to seek a retailer with Top Tier approval, and whether or not one was dooming a vehicle to fuel system issues by not doing so. The bulk of his post was to counter the notion that where the base gas is refined is associated with the name on the pump ("Does anybody know where they [Kroger] source their gas from? I highly doubt they have their own refinery so they must be getting it from someone."). He was trying to state that base fuel is a fungible commodity and the brand name on the pump is all about marketing.

And we have an interesting situation in California with California specific fuel. I've seen various stations with the Citgo branding, but Citgo doesn't produce California RFG. For years there were a few Texaco stations around the San Francisco Bay Area even though Texaco had no regional refineries (and before the merger with Chevron). ARCO was a BP brand, but the refinery was in Southern California. There was a time when BP stations were found throughout California, but BP's only American refinery was in Louisiana. There's a fuel depot near the Chevron Richmond refinery, and I've seen any number of different trucks (some brand-specific but most independent fuel trucking companies) that look like they came from there.

They look something like this:

The base fuel from a specific gas station will almost never consistently come from a single refinery. I mentioned that fuel is a fungible commodity and often gets mixed in the holding tanks after being piped in from who knows how many local and/or regional refineries. There may be specific specialty fuels (like 100 octane racing unleaded) but for the most part base fuel is base fuel and there's no appreciable difference between 91 octane from a Chevron refinery or 91 octane from a Shell refinery.

 

[y_p_w]

Originally Posted By: IndyIan
Just based on prices here, I don't see how top tier gas can cost that much more. All the stations prices usually track within 1% of each other. Costco is the standout by being 1-2% cheaper than the rest.
I've almost always used Ultramar which isn't top tier, but has their own refineries and tends to be the instigator in a price drop. Esso usually leads the price hikes so I never go to their stations if I can help it.

It doesn't have to. It might add maybe pennies to the cost of a gallon, including the licensing fees. Anything more and it's market differentiation.

The thing about Costco is that they're pretty clear that they don't intend to make much money selling fuel. It's supposed to be a benefit to their members, who pay membership fees. It also drives business to their warehouses.

Quote:
http://www.dailyfinance.com/2011/07/15/costco-aims-to-fuel-sales-growth-with-discount-gas/

To bring in customers, Costco typically prices gasoline at 6 cents to 12 cents below the market price. We believe Costco's move to sell more gas at very low margins could drive membership growth and lead to an increase in incremental sales at Costco stores. Costco operates on a warehouse club model under which it charges an annual membership fee to customers and, in turn, offers deep discounts on selected merchandise. Members pay annual fees of $50 to $100 to shop in its stores.

 

[BearZDefect]

Costco annual membership has been either $55 or $110 since they came to Lexington in 2013.

Costco's gasoline prices at the pump do not swing up wildly like they do at Speedway. Here in Lexington, Costco's price for unleaded probably averages 20 cents lower than Speedway, often 25+ cents lower for more than a week on end. Occasionally when Speedway hits the bottom of their swing they will be only 3 or 4 cents higher than Costco, but at that point the next day Speedway raises their prices by 30 cents a gallon.

The $55 annual membership fee at Costco may be worth it just so I can ignore the gouging price swings at Speedway. I can't tell you how often my wife would tell me her car was was low on fuel on the very day Speedway raised prices 30+ cents.

All other stations in town follow Speedway's lead on fuel prices, including Kroger.

 

[y_p_w]

Just as an aside, does anyone here use CFN?

Some of their outlets are branded with another company (like Chevron or Pilot) but the ones I've driven by don't carry another name. Those are maybe the most spartan gas stations I've ever seen.