P1 & Fram use 20 micron but Bosch uses 40 micron?

[Ed_Flecko]

I'm trying to select a filter. My personal preference is the filter efficiency. I'm comparing the Fram Ultra to the Purolator PureONE to the Bosch Distance Plus.

Unless I'm misinterpreting their data, all three filters disclose their results based on the ISO 4548-12 standard. The Purolator PureONE Oil Filter advertises 99.9% efficiency at 20 microns, the Fram Ultra advertises 99% efficiency at 20 microns, but the Bosch Distance Plus advertises 99% efficiency at 40 microns. Really? Is it me, or is that a big difference if you're trying to "compare apples to apples"? The difference between a 20 micron particle and a 40 micron particle, I would think, is huge to any quality oil filter.

Comments?

Ed

 

[CrawfishTails]

Months of pondering summarized: Nothing filters better, for longer, than a Fram Ultra, gets down to 5 microns at 80%, not bad at all. Only way to do better is with a parallel flow filter such as the big trucks get (Fleetguard I think), or go with the MicroGreen oil filter, another parallel flow design. The Ultra is the easy choice for longevity and filtering better.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Been discussed here ad nauseum. Try a google search.

Me, Ill take a near sieve with a base end bypass running E10.

 

[SilverC6]

Originally Posted By: Ed_Flecko
I'm trying to select a filter. My personal preference is the filter efficiency. I'm comparing the Fram Ultra to the Purolator PureONE to the Bosch Distance Plus.

Unless I'm misinterpreting their data, all three filters disclose their results based on the ISO 4548-12 standard. The Purolator PureONE Oil Filter advertises 99.9% efficiency at 20 microns, the Fram Ultra advertises 99% efficiency at 20 microns, but the Bosch Distance Plus advertises 99% efficiency at 40 microns. Really? Is it me, or is that a big difference if you're trying to "compare apples to apples"? The difference between a 20 micron particle and a 40 micron particle, I would think, is huge to any quality oil filter.

Comments?

Ed


Anything you measure in microns isn't huge...

There is no real need for ultra filtration unless you are trying to run oil for 80,000 miles like a trucker.

Of course it does help sell expensive oil filters.

 

[gfh77665]

Originally Posted By: Ed_Flecko
Bosch Distance Plus.


Therein lies the answer. It was purposely designed that way, to accommodate extended intervals.

 

[edwardh1]

what does Denso spec for filtration size?

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: Ed_Flecko
Unless I'm misinterpreting their data, all three filters disclose their results based on the ISO 4548-12 standard. The Purolator PureONE Oil Filter advertises 99.9% efficiency at 20 microns, the Fram Ultra advertises 99% efficiency at 20 microns, but the Bosch Distance Plus advertises 99% efficiency at 40 microns.


I'll throw another wrinkle into the mix. A handful of PureOne spin-ons are rated at 99.9% @ 40 microns. Like the PL14610. You have to look at the small print on the size of the box. And, I was told by Purolator Tech Dept that all of their cartridge filters are rated at 40 microns.

If you want the best in filtration and flow, get a full synthetic filter like the Ultra or the Purolator Synthetic. Don't get a WIX XP though as they claim theirs is only 50% @ 20 microns.

 

[Ed_Flecko]

Originally Posted By: edwardh1
what does Denso spec for filtration size?


IF you consider the TRD Oil Filter to be the best filter that's made by Denso for some Toyota vehicles (and I think most people would consider the TRD product line to be the best), then the answer is: "Both the spin-on and element filters use 3 plies of 100% synthetic glass/polyester blend filtration media that's 98% efficient at 20 microns - that's smaller than pollen." - Source: http://www.toyotapart.com/PTR43-00080.html

Ed

 

[Donald]

When comparing make sure its multi-pass test, I think the single-pass test is not equivalent to real life.

 

[aa1986]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
I'll throw another wrinkle into the mix. A handful of PureOne spin-ons are rated at 99.9% @ 40 microns. Like the PL14610. You have to look at the small print on the size of the box. And, I was told by Purolator Tech Dept that all of their cartridge filters are rated at 40 microns.


What's interesting about this is that the website says the PureOne's 99.9% efficiency claim is based on testing a single filter model.

When I emailed them, they said "all" PureOne's are 99.9% efficient at 20 microns, which is clearly not correct.

At least Fram test 3 different filter models for their efficiency claim and the resulting number they give you is the average of those 3 filters.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: aa1986
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
I'll throw another wrinkle into the mix. A handful of PureOne spin-ons are rated at 99.9% @ 40 microns. Like the PL14610. You have to look at the small print on the size of the box. And, I was told by Purolator Tech Dept that all of their cartridge filters are rated at 40 microns.


What's interesting about this is that the website says the PureOne's 99.9% efficiency claim is based on testing a single filter model.

When I emailed them, they said "all" PureOne's are 99.9% efficient at 20 microns, which is clearly not correct.

At least Fram test 3 different filter models for their efficiency claim and the resulting number they give you is the average of those 3 filters.


Interesting that Purolator told you via email that all of the PureOnes are 99.9% @ 20 microns. Unless they have changed something over the last couple years, the print on the box for a PL14610 clearly said 99.9% @ 40 microns.

 

[InhalingBullets]

• the human red blood cell is 5 microns
• the average human hair has a diameter of 100 microns

 

[Ed_Flecko]

Originally Posted By: Donald
When comparing make sure its multi-pass test, I think the single-pass test is not equivalent to real life.


How would you determine that??? Contact the manufacturer and ask for (some form of) proof???

Ed

 

[aa1986]

Originally Posted By: InhalingBullets
• the human red blood cell is 5 microns
• the average human hair has a diameter of 100 microns



And the Ebola virus is 0.9 microns which is 10-50 times larger than most viruses.

It can still cause damage to a human, despite it's size.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: Ed_Flecko
Originally Posted By: Donald
When comparing make sure its multi-pass test, I think the single-pass test is not equivalent to real life.


How would you determine that??? Contact the manufacturer and ask for (some form of) proof???

Ed


When a manufacturer references an efficiency spec, they usually also reference the test spec used to determine that efficiency. If they (ie, Fram or Purolator or Amsoil) say it's based on the ISO 4845 test spec, then it's a multi-pass test.

 

[steveh]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: aa1986
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
I'll throw another wrinkle into the mix. A handful of PureOne spin-ons are rated at 99.9% @ 40 microns. Like the PL14610. You have to look at the small print on the size of the box. And, I was told by Purolator Tech Dept that all of their cartridge filters are rated at 40 microns.


What's interesting about this is that the website says the PureOne's 99.9% efficiency claim is based on testing a single filter model.

When I emailed them, they said "all" PureOne's are 99.9% efficient at 20 microns, which is clearly not correct.

At least Fram test 3 different filter models for their efficiency claim and the resulting number they give you is the average of those 3 filters.


Interesting that Purolator told you via email that all of the PureOnes are 99.9% @ 20 microns. Unless they have changed something over the last couple years, the print on the box for a PL14610 clearly said 99.9% @ 40 microns.
I bought a PL14476 for the Toyota onetime and it also said @40 microns.

 

[Olas]

Manufacturers have different supply chains and use different materials. Mann are 99.something at 9 microns

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: Olas
Mann are 99. something at 9 microns


Dang, that's super filtering. Got a link to that info?

 

[goodtimes]

Try some 600 grit emery or sandpaper on some steel, that's about 15 micron particle size. Try it on some glass. it's medium grinding. Forty micron is coarse grinding, below 1 micron steel starts to "polish." I used to do a lot of precision optics work so have a good feel for microns, in abrasives and measuring.
What I don't undersdtand is how abrasive particles pass by the piston rings,during the compression stroke?

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: goodtimes
What I don't undersdtand is how abrasive particles pass by the piston rings,during the compression stroke?


Same way that some of the high pressure gas that the rings are trying to seal leaks by. Rings are not 100% seal tight. That's were most of the carbon debris comes from, and also there is piston ring and cylinder wall abrasion going on with every piston stroke.