Should you tell a customer what's wrong or just ho

[dishdude]

Originally Posted By: Lubener
Originally Posted By: skyactiv
Most auto garages charge a diagnostic fee.
You should charge one. If they want you to repair it, apply the fee towards the repair.

On a lawn mower I would charge a diagnostic fee paid up front which would apply towards repairs.Otherwise the customer will disappear and you get stuck with the mower.


Very good advice! Also make sure you post and print on their claim ticket that anything left over 90 days will be disposed, or you'll be a storage facility.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: dishdude
Originally Posted By: Lubener
Originally Posted By: skyactiv
Most auto garages charge a diagnostic fee.
You should charge one. If they want you to repair it, apply the fee towards the repair.

On a lawn mower I would charge a diagnostic fee paid up front which would apply towards repairs.Otherwise the customer will disappear and you get stuck with the mower.


Very good advice! Also make sure you post and print on their claim ticket that anything left over 90 days will be disposed, or you'll be a storage facility.


Good advise. The business could easily turn into a junkyard.

 

[Quest]

For my regular customers: I don't charge them for quick diagnostic fees at all (we know and trust each other well).

For noobie, I charge a flat 10bux for anything less than 15~20mins, which, for mowers and such, involves removing shroud covers (to check sheared keys, choke/carb, etc.) or fuel bowls,etc.

For cars: typically a flat 20bux for diagnosis, which goes towards their repair (waived if they decided to leave the car to me for fixing).

Once I built a good, trustworthy if not consistent relationship with my clients, I typically skip the diagnosis flat fee and get straight into the repair mode. They trust me to do the job in an honest, fair manner so they usually have no problems leaving the mess to me.

I came across far too many either (a) I just need a quick 2nd opinion (must have watched yootoob on certain SK tricks to redneck a fix, or similar); or (b) trying to undercut some other colleagues (indy shops that I know of)'s quote by having some sort of evidence like "...so-n-so charges for this much/hours, and you charge that much....blah blah blah"

The 3rd category is just simply too cheep to get things done properly to begin with, and by charging a diagnosis fee upfront, that would chase those nuisance away.

Q.

 

[HangFire]

There's no need to charge up front in the small engine business, it's not auto repair. Many customers will leave their broken junk with you rather than pay the $35 diagnostic fee to find out it will cost $80 to fix their 10 year old $125 string trimmer. Then, you have spare parts and used equipment to sell.

Last year I spent part of a Spring Saturday morning at a local OPE and Stihl shop. The owner greated each visitor hauling in OPE with "$35 for diagnosis, $25 to restring a recoil or $20 if you've removed it for me." I was shocked at the number of people that just turned around and left with their Craftsmans and Poulans, but after 1 hour he had a week's worth of equipment lined up on the floor, most of it Stihl and Husky.

He made enough on recoils, blade and chain sharpening on Saturday morning to have 4 other guys there, I'm pretty sure I never saw more than 2 on a weekday.

 

[Merkava_4]

Originally Posted By: HangFire
There's no need to charge up front in the small engine business, it's not auto repair. Many customers will leave their broken junk with you rather than pay the $35 diagnostic fee to find out it will cost $80 to fix their 10 year old $125 string trimmer. Then, you have spare parts and used equipment to sell.


^ ^ ^ This ^ ^ ^

 

[antiqueshell]

Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit


You should consider the possibility that it is not "them", but rather "you" with the problem.


Ah, no it isn't just "me" with a problem, the entire auto service and repair industry has a HUGE problem with incompetence, and
dishonest crooks....Consumers rate this industry as low or lower in
integrity than almost any other profession, which is no surprise and many customers have the exact same experience. Being screwed, blued, and tatooed by so called "professional" mechanics. To those that are truly honest, competent and professional, sorry that you are surrounded by criminals and hacks in the industry.

 

[The motor guy]

So what do you do if you know you're talking to someone who is just going to waste your time or something just doesn't feel right about them? Like a previous poster said it only takes a few minutes to know if the person is going to give you problems and I'm pretty good at picking up on them. I'd rather just not have them come out then have them waste my time. I had another guy today who brought a piece of equipment out to have fixed changed his mind when he got out here and brought his equipment back.

 

[DoubleWasp]

If you don't charge a diagnostic fee, you will lose far more than you gain. Some large, well funded businesses might be able to get away with it, but you are not that.

Avoid work for neighbors too. That can come back to bite you in the butt. Don't count on a neighbor to treat you like a neighbor once they are in the mood to blame you for everything wrong their equipment does wrong from there on out.

Value your service. You made an investment in your knowledge, experience, and business. Don't give it away for free.

 

[Quest]

Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
If you don't charge a diagnostic fee, you will lose far more than you gain. Some large, well funded businesses might be able to get away with it, but you are not that.

Avoid work for neighbors too. That can come back to bite you in the butt. Don't count on a neighbor to treat you like a neighbor once they are in the mood to blame you for everything wrong their equipment does wrong from there on out.

Value your service. You made an investment in your knowledge, experience, and business. Don't give it away for free.


Yup! hear hear! I can't be bothered profiling so-called "potential" customers when regular clients would simply goes straight into business mode, w/o the need of all the unnecessary preliminary work.

Also: reputation is important in virtually all businesses (I do all kinds of work besides auto repair; I also do vintage stereo restoration, studio grade equipment repair, vintage tube radio repair/restoration, and more). My reputation has brought me lots of customers to my front door, at times I even have to divert some of the repair work to ma dad (retired) just to keep up with it. I made it clear to my customers that I treat them with respect and dignity, and on my side I demand my fair pay (my rate has been fair in my field of expertise locally). Word of mouth has even brought me customers from across the state, and from some other remote locations, or even several states across (in the past, but due to shipping liability concerns, I no longer do that kind of repair work)

Don't let those dingbats get you, for you deserve more than just some drive-by guy who want to take you for a free ride.

I don't care whether you are an OPE shop or automobile repair shop. Fact is, too many lousy mechanics, too may "freeloaders" out there, and that pretty much ruined the industry.

Q.

 

[Quest]

Oh and BTW: I do "screen" and retain my customers. Those who attempt (or had taken) to take me for a free ride gets to show the exit.

My list of customers that I retained keeps bringing me business. During year's end, sometimes I would pay some of them an individual visit with a box of chocolate to show my gratitude (for keeping my family alive), and that's how I keep my customers.

Oh and BTW: have I told you I also have a regular 9-5 F/T job as an IT administrator?

Q.

 

[DoubleWasp]

One more thing. Giving away too much when you are the little guy will convince people that you are so small and desperate that they can completely take advantage of you. You want to be taken seriously as a professional. You wouldn't believe how many people are looking for an "Uncle Marty" to come by and fix all of their stuff in exchange for $5 and a plate of Chocodiles.

When you are the little guy, the assumption is sometimes made that you're just doing what you do to make some extra beer money on the side, and you love what you do so much, that you are willing to pay them to do the job.

They need to know that they are conducting business, and not just "helping a guy out".

 

[fdcg27]

Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit


You should consider the possibility that it is not "them", but rather "you" with the problem.


Ah, no it isn't just "me" with a problem, the entire auto service and repair industry has a HUGE problem with incompetence, and
dishonest crooks....Consumers rate this industry as low or lower in
integrity than almost any other profession, which is no surprise and many customers have the exact same experience. Being screwed, blued, and tatooed by so called "professional" mechanics. To those that are truly honest, competent and professional, sorry that you are surrounded by criminals and hacks in the industry.


Considering your many rants here, the problem could just be the face looking back at you in the mirror.
I know that I wouldn't tolerate the attitude you show here in any venue.
Most techs are both honest and competent.
Some customers push shops to mess with them.
You get what you give.

 

[antiqueshell]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27


Considering your many rants here, the problem could just be the face looking back at you in the mirror.
I know that I wouldn't tolerate the attitude you show here in any venue.



Maybe so , but that makes you one of the minority competent and honest techs out there! I can promise you that an honest and competent tech would receivw no such attitude or treatment from me and would get paid well too. Like I said before if I could find such a guy locally I would be happy as heck and would get much more work done. Instead I make sure to get as little done as possible because the number of honest and competent techs around here is just about NONE.


Quote:

Most techs are both honest and competent.


Maybe where you are that is the case but around here that is absolutely NOT true. I can't tell you how many times I speak with friends, neighbors, and co workers who say they are loathe to take their car in for service because of the impending bend over they generally receive for their money. The people I speak of are honest hard working, and fair consumers too, and treat others like they want to be treated.


Quote:

Some customers push shops to mess with them.
You get what you give.


I don't disagree with that there are some freeloaders that want something for nothing and will play games to get that free service, I certainly do NOT behave in such a way, and I also do not expect to be treated in a shoddy and crooked manner either. Yet like my many of the people I mentioned above we all seem to experience this shyster like behavior from these automotive service businesses. So it ain't just me.

 

[fdcg27]

I'm not a tech, but I play one in the driveway.
I know of three honest and competent techs to whom I farm out any work I don't feel like doing as well as good exhaust and tire shops.
Two of these guys are indies and the other is a long-time pro who does side work in his home garage.
Techs fix cars, not dealerships or chains.
Many of the good techs become indie specialists, so you may have to troll the local car-guy community to find a good one.
You have to use a little common sense as well as your car-guy smarts in selecting a shop.
A dealership service department is the last place I'd take any vehicle for work not involving warranty repairs or a recall. Too many mouths to feed results in too much money for work that will sometimes be done by guys who are really at the neophite level.
I'd bet that there are a bunch of guys here who'd have no trouble passing most of the ASE cert tests, but that doesn't make us competent techs when working on cars not familiar to us.

 

[antiqueshell]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27
I'm not a tech, but I play one in the driveway.


Good for you. But you are not a "professional" so you really can't speak from direct experience in the business.
Quote:


I know of three honest and competent techs to whom I farm out any work I don't feel like doing as well as good exhaust and tire shops.
Two of these guys are indies and the other is a long-time pro who does side work in his home garage.

Hey, that is wonderful....for you...but how does that anecdotal
evidence change anything for the overwhelming number
of consumers who don't have your fortunate experience?

Quote:

Techs fix cars, not dealerships or chains.
Many of the good techs become indie specialists, so you may have to troll the local car-guy community to find a good one.


You have to use a little common sense as well as your car-guy smarts in selecting a shop.
A dealership service department is the last place I'd take any vehicle for work not involving warranty repairs or a recall. Too many mouths to feed results in too much money for work that will sometimes be done by guys who are really at the neophite level.
I'd bet that there are a bunch of guys here who'd have no trouble passing most of the ASE cert tests, but that doesn't make us competent techs when working on cars not familiar to us.


So you are basically admitting that there IS a huge problem
with the industry in general being loaded with incompetent,
shady, and greedy people?

 

[fdcg27]

I run the fleet where I work, so I might just have some professional cred. In consultation with our very good tech, I decide what to buy, what to scrap and what to fix. We don't farm any work out, since our tech can fix anything from our diesel lawn equipment to our fleet cars and vans. I also get to try to decide when we should top off our 10K gallon fuel tank, since when you're buying 5-7K gallons at a time, a small price swing makes a real cost difference.
The point that I was making wrt honest and competent techs is that they're out there. You just have to use your smarts to find them. If that's too difficult for many folks, then oh well. Kind of a counter to your anecdotes about how lousy and dishonest you claim most shops to be.
The problem is as much on the side of the driver seeking service as it is with incompetent shops, and incompetence is more of a problem than dishonesty. If the average driver would put as much due diligence into finding a good shop as they do in deciding what brand of frozen dinners to buy or what airline to book, the incompetent shops and techs would all dry up due to lack of business.
As someone once said, there's a sucker born every minute. As long as people are willing to be suckers, incompetent shops will continue in business.
For every seller, there must be a buyer. If the service seller is incompetent or dishonest, the buyer should have figured that out before giving them the work and there is ample information out there on who's good and who stinks. I'd think that the average person would be sophisticated enough to figure out where they should spend hundreds or even thousands of dollars for service and repair work, but I guess that isn't the case.

 

[antiqueshell]

I can and do wrench on my own cars (basic things like plugs, brake pads and fuel filter replacements) but after that I don't have the skills, lift, or special tools to do the big jobs right. So I personally do have quite a bit of knowledge about how my car works, backed up by actual
hands on experience.

Now if I have problems finding honest, competent
techs and shops, you darn well know that the typical consumer is going to be "bent over" and hard too when it comes to getting service and repairs done. That makes it clear to me that the
entire industry is problematic with regards to integrity and competence.

 

[jk_636]

Originally Posted By: The_Eric
Originally Posted By: jk_636
Originally Posted By: Tegger
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
inform potential customer that there will be diagnostic fee if he/she doesn't have you repair it, but the fee is waived if the repair is done by you.

+1

We just recently had a thread where some guy was complaining about the unreasonable charge the dealer wanted to read the codes behind his Check Engine light. Well, THIS thread shows why.


I would never pay someone to read my check engine light. Not when any auto parts store will do it for free. I would imagine that if you want the business, there may be times where you should do a preliminary diagnosis for free.

The whole reason why I bought a scan tool is because of arsehole mechanics. They wanted to charge me $75 just to read an ABS code (parts stores only do CEL codes, not ABS, SRS, Transmission etc.) I was so disgusted that instead of paying him, I went to HF and payed $120 (tax inclusive) for a scanner that will read, diagnose, clear etc. all CEL, ABS, SRS and tranny codes. I ended up fixing the problem myself and got a new tool in the process. If he would have scanned it he would have found out it was a bad brake fluid level sensor and made a lot more than $75 on the repair. Instead, he wound up with nothing. I dont work as a professional mechanic, just giving you a customers perspective OP.


[censored] mechanics? Yeah, how dare they charge to diagnose your vehicle... You do realize that they don't have $120.00 scan tools to pay for, right? Theirs will run from $5000.00 for a machine like mine, to 10s of thousands of dollars, depending on setup and licences. How is a wrench to pay for that? You also realize that your $120.00 scan tool read the ABS, SRS and so on, but it likely won't read ALL codes. Some codes are "manufacturer specific" and to provide access to them the scan tool manufacturer has to pay the OEM. That $120.00 machine also falls short in diagnosing due to lack of data pids and bi-directional controls. Then after the machine is bought and running, many will require updates, some costing a $1000.00+. The reality is that I've got closer to 7k in my 5k purchase price machine and I've even skipped a few updates because I don't see the newest cars yet- so paying $1200.00 won't return any money.


I completely understand how much tools, equipment, upgrades etc. cost. But a cheaper scan tool is more than sufficient for 99% of the problems you could encounter if you had a little mechanical aptitude. Why would you pay someone $80 to tell you that you have a bad, say, brake fluid level sensor when you could spend a little more and DIY anytime you need to. I don't drive a Mercedes, BMW etc. so there is typically never a time I would need a 5k dollar scanner. As for the HF scanner, I have yet to find a code it wouldn't read. If it is OEM specific, just write it down and look for TSBs or articles on the wonderful world of Google. It's not hard, it just takes time. Mechanics are good for people who don't have the time or aptitude to DIY or those who tried and messed up the project bad. Nothing against them, but I personally diy until I run out of ideas or royally mess something up.

 

[The_Eric]

Originally Posted By: jk_636
Originally Posted By: The_Eric
Originally Posted By: jk_636

I would never pay someone to read my check engine light. Not when any auto parts store will do it for free. I would imagine that if you want the business, there may be times where you should do a preliminary diagnosis for free.

The whole reason why I bought a scan tool is because of arsehole mechanics. They wanted to charge me $75 just to read an ABS code (parts stores only do CEL codes, not ABS, SRS, Transmission etc.) I was so disgusted that instead of paying him, I went to HF and payed $120 (tax inclusive) for a scanner that will read, diagnose, clear etc. all CEL, ABS, SRS and tranny codes. I ended up fixing the problem myself and got a new tool in the process. If he would have scanned it he would have found out it was a bad brake fluid level sensor and made a lot more than $75 on the repair. Instead, he wound up with nothing. I dont work as a professional mechanic, just giving you a customers perspective OP.


[censored] mechanics? Yeah, how dare they charge to diagnose your vehicle... You do realize that they don't have $120.00 scan tools to pay for, right? Theirs will run from $5000.00 for a machine like mine, to 10s of thousands of dollars, depending on setup and licences. How is a wrench to pay for that? You also realize that your $120.00 scan tool read the ABS, SRS and so on, but it likely won't read ALL codes. Some codes are "manufacturer specific" and to provide access to them the scan tool manufacturer has to pay the OEM. That $120.00 machine also falls short in diagnosing due to lack of data pids and bi-directional controls. Then after the machine is bought and running, many will require updates, some costing a $1000.00+. The reality is that I've got closer to 7k in my 5k purchase price machine and I've even skipped a few updates because I don't see the newest cars yet- so paying $1200.00 won't return any money.


I completely understand how much tools, equipment, upgrades etc. cost. But a cheaper scan tool is more than sufficient for 99% of the problems you could encounter if you had a little mechanical aptitude. Why would you pay someone $80 to tell you that you have a bad, say, brake fluid level sensor when you could spend a little more and DIY anytime you need to. I don't drive a Mercedes, BMW etc. so there is typically never a time I would need a 5k dollar scanner. As for the HF scanner, I have yet to find a code it wouldn't read. If it is OEM specific, just write it down and look for TSBs or articles on the wonderful world of Google. It's not hard, it just takes time. Mechanics are good for people who don't have the time or aptitude to DIY or those who tried and messed up the project bad. Nothing against them, but I personally diy until I run out of ideas or royally mess something up.


I feel that there's very little reason for DIYers of all skill levels to not own a basic, hand held scan tool. There is a great potential for money savings there. But, that's still no reason to call a mech an [censored] for billing to diagnose a vehicle. What other recourse do people who don't DIY and those that do have when their methods fall short? The answer in the overwhelming majority of cases is take it to the mechanic. The mech who has invested 10's of thousands in tools and equipment. The mech who may or may not get the repair job after he used his very expensive machine(s), time, building and shop supplies to diagnose the issue. How does he pay for all that if the intrepid DIY'er decides he wants to do the repair? The answer is to bill them for services rendered. Not a new concept.

 

[jk_636]

Just the cost of doing business I suppose. Treat your customers well and provide reasonably priced service and they will come back continually. Mechanics is a hobby for me(and it saves me money) so I only take it in if there is absolutely no way I can fix it (I.E. Body work). But hey, to each his own. But speaking strictly as a consumer, charging people for things like a CEL that they can get for free leads to a lack of return business. You don't need a 5k scan tool to diagnose (or get a rough idea) of what's wrong 80% of the time. You know that. It's just a way to milk extra money from the clientele. Not saying that's necessarily a bad thing, but let's call a spade a spade.