MOLY DTC ENGINE TREATMENT
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Interesting, never seen this stuff before so I'm guessing it's new? I have been thinking about trying their PTFE additive.
Interesting it uses MoDTc instead of MoS2, I wonder if they work the same or if one is more effective than the other.
Interesting it uses MoDTc instead of MoS2, I wonder if they work the same or if one is more effective than the other.
Nothing new. Many manufacturers use the DTC or organic version because it is actually soluble with oil. The MoS2 version is not, so it falls out of suspension and isn't nearly as good as the DTC version, although it is still used in greases and gear lubes.
If that product was beneficial, the oil companies would have been using it long ago. Refer to BITOG 101.
Originally Posted By: HosteenJorje
If that product was beneficial, the oil companies would have been using it long ago. Refer to BITOG 101.
If I correctly understand what it is, they DO use it, just likely in lower concentrations than an additive bottle would provide.
If that product was beneficial, the oil companies would have been using it long ago. Refer to BITOG 101.
If I correctly understand what it is, they DO use it, just likely in lower concentrations than an additive bottle would provide.
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
Originally Posted By: HosteenJorje
If that product was beneficial, the oil companies would have been using it long ago. Refer to BITOG 101.
If I correctly understand what it is, they DO use it, just likely in lower concentrations than an additive bottle would provide.
Yep, they have been using MODTC for years...go back in time, and there was much debate on BITOG about Delo400 having Moly while the diesel engine manufacturers were against it (they were against MoS2).
Nulon have used MoTDC as advertising on their bottles for 5 years or so, like they just invented the stuff.
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Are there any Mo-DTC additives available in the US?
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...amp;type=thread
Originally Posted By: HosteenJorje
If that product was beneficial, the oil companies would have been using it long ago. Refer to BITOG 101.
If I correctly understand what it is, they DO use it, just likely in lower concentrations than an additive bottle would provide.
Yep, they have been using MODTC for years...go back in time, and there was much debate on BITOG about Delo400 having Moly while the diesel engine manufacturers were against it (they were against MoS2).
Nulon have used MoTDC as advertising on their bottles for 5 years or so, like they just invented the stuff.
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Are there any Mo-DTC additives available in the US?
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...amp;type=thread
I'm kind of anti-moly. I'll use an oil with no moly (like Rotella T5 or German/Belgian Castrol) or relatively small amounts of moly (like M1 HM), but will deliberately avoid high moly oils.
It's debatable whether or not moly reduces wear. In small concentrations, there may be some synergy with Z and P, but it may not hold true at higher concentrations. There's an SAE paper 2000-01-3553 (Oil Development for Nascar Racing) in which a moly additive showed increased wear. I've seen other papers, but don't remember them off the top of my head. Could be the reason why Delo has a huge amount of Z and P (and also Redline).
I don't think that it's debatable, however, that moly will compete with detergents. That's probably the reason why diesel engine oils usually don't have moly.
IMO, with a modern engine and the original factory low-tension piston rings, you are more likely to have to do an engine rebuild due to stuck rings than due to wear. Most engines will go > 200k before wear is a factor, but stuck rings can occur in under 100k. Sometimes, way under 100k.
It's debatable whether or not moly reduces wear. In small concentrations, there may be some synergy with Z and P, but it may not hold true at higher concentrations. There's an SAE paper 2000-01-3553 (Oil Development for Nascar Racing) in which a moly additive showed increased wear. I've seen other papers, but don't remember them off the top of my head. Could be the reason why Delo has a huge amount of Z and P (and also Redline).
I don't think that it's debatable, however, that moly will compete with detergents. That's probably the reason why diesel engine oils usually don't have moly.
IMO, with a modern engine and the original factory low-tension piston rings, you are more likely to have to do an engine rebuild due to stuck rings than due to wear. Most engines will go > 200k before wear is a factor, but stuck rings can occur in under 100k. Sometimes, way under 100k.
Originally Posted By: Skid
I'm kind of anti-moly. I'll use an oil with no moly (like Rotella T5 or German/Belgian Castrol) or relatively small amounts of moly (like M1 HM), but will deliberately avoid high moly oils.
It's debatable whether or not moly reduces wear. In small concentrations, there may be some synergy with Z and P, but it may not hold true at higher concentrations. There's an SAE paper 2000-01-3553 (Oil Development for Nascar Racing) in which a moly additive showed increased wear. I've seen other papers, but don't remember them off the top of my head. Could be the reason why Delo has a huge amount of Z and P (and also Redline).
I don't think that it's debatable, however, that moly will compete with detergents. That's probably the reason why diesel engine oils usually don't have moly.
IMO, with a modern engine and the original factory low-tension piston rings, you are more likely to have to do an engine rebuild due to stuck rings than due to wear. Most engines will go > 200k before wear is a factor, but stuck rings can occur in under 100k. Sometimes, way under 100k.
There is a fine balance of having too much or too little moly to really work, but I have seen research papers funded by Caterpillar that shows moly actually restores wear (to some extent) in gears used in differentials.
I'm kind of anti-moly. I'll use an oil with no moly (like Rotella T5 or German/Belgian Castrol) or relatively small amounts of moly (like M1 HM), but will deliberately avoid high moly oils.
It's debatable whether or not moly reduces wear. In small concentrations, there may be some synergy with Z and P, but it may not hold true at higher concentrations. There's an SAE paper 2000-01-3553 (Oil Development for Nascar Racing) in which a moly additive showed increased wear. I've seen other papers, but don't remember them off the top of my head. Could be the reason why Delo has a huge amount of Z and P (and also Redline).
I don't think that it's debatable, however, that moly will compete with detergents. That's probably the reason why diesel engine oils usually don't have moly.
IMO, with a modern engine and the original factory low-tension piston rings, you are more likely to have to do an engine rebuild due to stuck rings than due to wear. Most engines will go > 200k before wear is a factor, but stuck rings can occur in under 100k. Sometimes, way under 100k.
There is a fine balance of having too much or too little moly to really work, but I have seen research papers funded by Caterpillar that shows moly actually restores wear (to some extent) in gears used in differentials.
Originally Posted By: Skid
It's debatable whether or not moly reduces wear. In small concentrations, there may be some synergy with Z and P, but it may not hold true at higher concentrations. There's an SAE paper 2000-01-3553 (Oil Development for Nascar Racing) in which a moly additive showed increased wear. I've seen other papers, but don't remember them off the top of my head. Could be the reason why Delo has a huge amount of Z and P (and also Redline).
I'll have to read that paper. Nice find. Although, notice Mobil 1 0w-30 Racing Oil has very high amounts of moly, along with ZDDP too of course. It is something to think about, whether certain additives work in combination with others, and how much. The expert oil blenders at Mobil 1 racing tech must know that their moly works though!
It's debatable whether or not moly reduces wear. In small concentrations, there may be some synergy with Z and P, but it may not hold true at higher concentrations. There's an SAE paper 2000-01-3553 (Oil Development for Nascar Racing) in which a moly additive showed increased wear. I've seen other papers, but don't remember them off the top of my head. Could be the reason why Delo has a huge amount of Z and P (and also Redline).
I'll have to read that paper. Nice find. Although, notice Mobil 1 0w-30 Racing Oil has very high amounts of moly, along with ZDDP too of course. It is something to think about, whether certain additives work in combination with others, and how much. The expert oil blenders at Mobil 1 racing tech must know that their moly works though!
On the other hand racing engines are not expected to last 15 years and 200K for example.
Originally Posted By: 19jacobob93
Interesting, never seen this stuff before so I'm guessing it's new? I have been thinking about trying their PTFE additive.
Interesting it uses MoDTc instead of MoS2, I wonder if they work the same or if one is more effective than the other.
PTFE does not belong in motor oil. Dupont made that clear some time ago.
Interesting, never seen this stuff before so I'm guessing it's new? I have been thinking about trying their PTFE additive.
Interesting it uses MoDTc instead of MoS2, I wonder if they work the same or if one is more effective than the other.
PTFE does not belong in motor oil. Dupont made that clear some time ago.
MolaKule
Staff member
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
Originally Posted By: HosteenJorje
If that product was beneficial, the oil companies would have been using it long ago. Refer to BITOG 101.
If I correctly understand what it is, they DO use it, just likely in lower concentrations than an additive bottle would provide.
Yep, they have been using MODTC for years...go back in time, and there was much debate on BITOG about Delo400 having Moly while the diesel engine manufacturers were against it (they were against MoS2).
Nulon have used MoTDC as advertising on their bottles for 5 years or so, like they just invented the stuff.
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Are there any Mo-DTC additives available in the US?
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...amp;type=thread
There are a number of forms of soluble moly such as X-nuclear moly, MoDTC, MoDTP.
The culprit in diesel engines was MoDTP or moly dithiophosphate.
There was an industry paper about 2002,3 that showed while MoDTP was great in hydraulic oil, it caused corrosion problems in diesel engines due to their higher combustion temperature.
Once again, soluble moly's are only one form of friction modifier.
I have never seen any advantages to PTFE in any motor oils. It does make a good grease thickener for certain applicatons.
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
Originally Posted By: HosteenJorje
If that product was beneficial, the oil companies would have been using it long ago. Refer to BITOG 101.
If I correctly understand what it is, they DO use it, just likely in lower concentrations than an additive bottle would provide.
Yep, they have been using MODTC for years...go back in time, and there was much debate on BITOG about Delo400 having Moly while the diesel engine manufacturers were against it (they were against MoS2).
Nulon have used MoTDC as advertising on their bottles for 5 years or so, like they just invented the stuff.
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Are there any Mo-DTC additives available in the US?
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...amp;type=thread
There are a number of forms of soluble moly such as X-nuclear moly, MoDTC, MoDTP.
The culprit in diesel engines was MoDTP or moly dithiophosphate.
There was an industry paper about 2002,3 that showed while MoDTP was great in hydraulic oil, it caused corrosion problems in diesel engines due to their higher combustion temperature.
Once again, soluble moly's are only one form of friction modifier.
I have never seen any advantages to PTFE in any motor oils. It does make a good grease thickener for certain applicatons.
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Molakule,
thanks for the clarification, I thought it was MoS2 and roller valve trains, but stand corrected.
Nulon started in the teflon heydays, and have dropped teflon from (a lot) of their range...I have had some spectacular success with their now defunct "worn engine treatment", which reduced oil consumption by 80% in a couple of neglected extreme oil burners.
thanks for the clarification, I thought it was MoS2 and roller valve trains, but stand corrected.
Nulon started in the teflon heydays, and have dropped teflon from (a lot) of their range...I have had some spectacular success with their now defunct "worn engine treatment", which reduced oil consumption by 80% in a couple of neglected extreme oil burners.
My father found 2 (new and unused) bottles of a nulon ptfe oil additive and suspected it was mine. I don't recall ever buying anything like that, so advised to use it as a chainsaw oil additive. Won't hurt things there, I'd imagine.
MolaKule
Staff member
I just noticed in the NULON add that they show a wear scar reduction of from 0.7 to 0.5mm. Now a wear scar reduction of 0.7mm to less than 0.35 would be significant.
But what is their baseline and under what conditions were these scars created?
So why place a picture of a wear scar in a product touting Friction Reduction, unless you want to confuse the issue, or you do not fully understand the difference between wear and friction modification?
In some cases, friction reduction can result in a slight increase in wear.
But what is their baseline and under what conditions were these scars created?
So why place a picture of a wear scar in a product touting Friction Reduction, unless you want to confuse the issue, or you do not fully understand the difference between wear and friction modification?
In some cases, friction reduction can result in a slight increase in wear.
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