SmartMeters and tinfoil crowd

[CDX825]

Originally Posted By: crazyoildude
they do more damage than you can think and transmit all kinds of personal information and some of it can be used to see when you are home..Burglars and stalkers like that im sure and if you have a pacemaker or other medical equipment it can cause issues. People sue over this stuff and win in court


The amount of rf energy they produce is less than one watt. They operate at either 900mhz or 2.4ghz. With the built in antenna the signal isn't even going to reach very far. Thats a tiny amount of rf power in comparison to other types of transmitters. It is so small there is no way it would harm anything.

The typical mobile commercial radio used by police and fire departments transmits at 50 times the power [50 watts]. Handheld radios operate at 5 watts of power.

Amateur radio operators like myself are allowed to use 1500 watts of transmit power. At 900mhz thats enough power to microwave your food.

Most radio stations operate at 10,000 to 50,000 watts of power.

About the only real harm one of these meters might cause is interference to someone running a wireless network at the same frequency.

 

[exranger06]

Originally Posted By: crazyoildude
they do more damage than you can think and transmit all kinds of personal information and some of it can be used to see when you are home..Burglars and stalkers like that im sure and if you have a pacemaker or other medical equipment it can cause issues. People sue over this stuff and win in court

The meters transmit your kWh usage. That's all they transmit. What personal information are you talking about?

 

[KrisZ]

The only thing I don’t like about smart meters of any kind is that they are used to increase the cost of utilities.
The different billing rates depending on the time of the day or night, all sound great, but ultimately they are made to get more money out of the users.

My electrical bill is roughly 80% off peak, yet I pay about 50% more than when we had a flat rate. I have no incentive to support them.

 

[greenjp]

Originally Posted By: KrisZ
The only thing I don’t like about smart meters of any kind is that they are used to increase the cost of utilities.
The different billing rates depending on the time of the day or night, all sound great, but ultimately they are made to get more money out of the users.

My electrical bill is roughly 80% off peak, yet I pay about 50% more than when we had a flat rate. I have no incentive to support them.

This is 100% correct - we have been sold a bill of goods with the idea that time-of-use meters can enable end-users to reduce their costs. It could be possible if the rates were structured to allow it, in my experience they are not. We were switched to time-of-use billing several years ago, I evaluated our costs compared to what we would have had with the old flat rate billing and there is no realistic way to shift enough usage to off peak to generate any savings.

I don't actually mind demand based rates, incentivizing shifting use to off-peak times, optimizing generation and distribution capacity, etc. That's all great stuff. Just don't tell me it's going to save me money while you're increasing my bill.

jeff

 

[hatt]

Originally Posted By: KrisZ
The only thing I don’t like about smart meters of any kind is that they are used to increase the cost of utilities.
The different billing rates depending on the time of the day or night, all sound great, but ultimately they are made to get more money out of the users.

My electrical bill is roughly 80% off peak, yet I pay about 50% more than when we had a flat rate. I have no incentive to support them.
The peak rate is 2 1/2 to 3x the cost of the flat rate. Off peak is 75% of flat rate. It's a huge scam.

 

[crazyoildude]

all your account info is open to hackers and your usage also which can tell when someone leaves the house in a lot of cases im not going to argue with anyone on this but i know and have seen what the real deal is.

 

[kschachn]

The utility here transmits only encrypted data with no user-identifable information (not that it would matter being encrypted). It also transmits regardless of usage, so I'm not sure how you could determine any of that here.

If some (your) utility is transmitting unencrypted data that borders on negligence IMO.

Originally Posted By: crazyoildude
all your account info is open to hackers and your usage also which can tell when someone leaves the house in a lot of cases im not going to argue with anyone on this but i know and have seen what the real deal is.

 

[crazyoildude]

encrypted is great security for the average joe but its a joke to some.

 

[kschachn]

No, it is not. That's a popular thing to say and sounds good on an oil board, but it is not correct.

Originally Posted By: crazyoildude
encrypted is great security for the average joe but its a joke to some.

 

[kschachn]

Looking back at this thread I see you keep stating this mantra but with no reason. Like I said, if your utility is transmitting personally identifiable information and is unencrypted, then that is nothing short of negligent.

Originally Posted By: crazyoildude
all your account info is open to hackers and your usage also which can tell when someone leaves the house in a lot of cases im not going to argue with anyone on this but i know and have seen what the real deal is.

 

[hatt]

Kinda doubt the water company has better info security than the info/financial companies that are continually hacked. I'm sure any half decent hacker could social engineer their way in within an hour.

 

[kschachn]

OK sure. To find out what? Your meter number and your usage?

Originally Posted By: hatt
Kinda doubt the water company has better info security than the info/financial companies that are continually hacked. I'm sure any half decent h comanhacker could social engineer themir way in within an hour.

 

[hatt]

Didn't say the chances were high just that it would most likely be very easy.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: hatt
Didn't say the chances were high just that it would most likely be very easy.


Well OK, but still. Why would they hack your meter for usage information? They would need a lookup table showing what meter belonged to which house. Besides, wouldn't they rather hack the water company itself? My personally identifiable data, my usage history and my payment methods are available there. And FWIW that data is there whether it is obtained wirelessly or by and old fashioned meter reader.

I'm not trying to argue really. It's just that crazyoildude said:
Quote:
all your account info is open to hackers and your usage also which can tell when someone leaves the house in a lot of cases im not going to argue with anyone on this but i know and have seen what the real deal is.

which I say (for my utility at least) is nowhere near true.

 

[hatt]

I have no idea why they'd want it. But criminals are very resourceful. All the time you hear of a scheme and you wonder how they came up with that out of the box idea. But you're right. Your sensitive info has nothing to do with smart meters. And it's all vulnerable.

I could see where hacking into electric meter systems would be of use. Reassigning meters to various addresses allowing grow houses and such.

 

[JustinH]

You guys say that the peak billing plans are not good?

So in Texas, we have Power to Choose, which is a state run website that lets you pick your supplier for electric.

I picked a big name company with a good rate (Reliant).

First year, I had a fixed rate which was fine.

Second year my contract expired, and I had the choice to renew at that rate or another plan they had or anyone else had.

I picked another reliant plan with the same electric rate as the fixed rate, but they throw in free electricity from 10pm-6am, and free electric for both weekend days.

This seems to work for me, and I can't find any gotchas with that plan. I will have to stick with it for a year and figure out if it was worth it.

Some of the companies on the power to choose website offer major scams. They give you a free nest thermostat, then give you a super high electric rate.

I wonder how many dummies do that to get a 200 dollar gizmo.

I think if you read the rates, and stay with a known company you can get a good deal.

 

[hatt]

I doubt you have a plan that has the same peak rate as the standard flat rate and free nights and weekends.

 

[crazyoildude]

what about the millions stolen from banks and alll those credit card numbers that are stolen every day is that a myth also i won't argue nor will i have a smart meter because i am too smart for that.

 

[kschachn]

We were talking about that a few posts above. Sure that's a problem, are you suggesting that if they hacked your automated water meter they would be able to garner all the rest of that?

Originally Posted By: crazyoildude
what about the millions stolen from banks and alll those credit card numbers that are stolen every day is that a myth also i won't argue nor will i have a smart meter because i am too smart for that.

 

[Al]

Originally Posted By: crazyoildude
nor will i have a smart meter because i am too smart for that.

Where did you get your name?