Musashi found!

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http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-31724995

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Musashi running!

YamatoClassBattleships.jpg


Wonderful ships, but in the end they proved that the battleships days were over.
 
Wow!

She was an awesome ship...and while the days of the battleship might have been over, it still took 19 torpedoes and 17 bombs to send her under...and the US Navy lost 18 planes and crews in the battle...
 
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Musashi and Yamato were amazing, but a bit over-gunned and under-powered compared to their contemporaries like the Iowa class. They were quite a bit slower.

I always thought that it was fitting (and ironic) that the last time battleships lined up in classic "gun-to-gun" "crossing-the-T" Jutland-style conflict, the super-battleships like Musashi, Yamato, New Jersey, and Wisconsin were nowhere near. It was West Virginia, Maryland, Mississippi, Tennessee, California, and Pennsylvania that took on the Japanese at Surigao Strait, and every last one except Mississippi had been either sunk or damaged at Pearl Harbor and then re-fitted. Pennsylvania wasn't sunk because she was in drydock, but she did get bombed at Pearl.
 
I just watched "Sink the Bismark" on YT over the weekend, and could see why the era of the big battleship had to come to an end. The Bismark sunk the Hood with 3 salvoes, but was disabled by a torpedo to her rudder launched from an antiquated Fairey Swordfish biplane. If a fragile wood, wire, and fabric "stringbag" worth about $8000 can render a capital ship useless, it no longer makes sense to waste money on the big battle wagons.
 
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
I just watched "Sink the Bismark" on YT over the weekend, and could see why the era of the big battleship had to come to an end. The Bismark sunk the Hood with 3 salvoes, but was disabled by a torpedo to her rudder launched from an antiquated Fairey Swordfish biplane. If a fragile wood, wire, and fabric "stringbag" worth about $8000 can render a capital ship useless, it no longer makes sense to waste money on the big battle wagons.


This is true. Though the Brits couldn't sink her. The Germans had to scuttle it to get her to go down. Blew the magazine.

What amazes me was the ineptitude of the Bismarck deployment. Originally the two Bismarck-class sister ships were to sail together but Tirpitz wasn't ready to sail and Hitler was impatient and so the plan was basically scrapped and Bismarck sailed with a small group of U-boats and Prinz Eugen. As with many of these scenarios one wonders how differently they would have played out without the epic blunders.
 
If the Bismarck had sailed with the Tirpitz and a destroyer screen it would have been much more difficult to sink those ships. Those ships might have forced Great Britain out of the war because convoys would not have been able to get through.
 
I did not think they would ever find the Musashi, or not find the ship at least until it was nothing but rust. The Musashi looks like it is in better shape than the Yamato. It looks like the ship is upright on the bottom. Two powerful underwater explosions were heard by the Japanese after the Musashi sank, but apparently those explosions were only secondary ammunition going off. The main turrets came off after the ship capsized and are upside down on the sea floor. Each on of those turrets weighed almost 3000 tons.

The Musashi and the Yamato were named for ancient provinces in Japan. Plus Yamato is supposed to be the ancient name for Japan and the poetic name for Japan.
 
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Originally Posted By: dlundblad
The stuff they dont teach you in history class. Wow!



History in American classrooms today is a joke. The young people have no idea what they are missing.
 
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
I just watched "Sink the Bismark" on YT over the weekend, and could see why the era of the big battleship had to come to an end. The Bismark sunk the Hood with 3 salvoes, but was disabled by a torpedo to her rudder launched from an antiquated Fairey Swordfish biplane. If a fragile wood, wire, and fabric "stringbag" worth about $8000 can render a capital ship useless, it no longer makes sense to waste money on the big battle wagons.


This is true. Though the Brits couldn't sink her. The Germans had to scuttle it to get her to go down. Blew the magazine.

What amazes me was the ineptitude of the Bismarck deployment. Originally the two Bismarck-class sister ships were to sail together but Tirpitz wasn't ready to sail and Hitler was impatient and so the plan was basically scrapped and Bismarck sailed with a small group of U-boats and Prinz Eugen. As with many of these scenarios one wonders how differently they would have played out without the epic blunders.


I doubt they would have done much more than the German high seas fleet did in 1918, other than rust well.

Germany is not a navel power, and in 1940 they were much less than they were in 1914. The Kriegsmarine repeatedly told Hitler that their could be no thought of war before 1948, look up Plan Z. You simply cannot build a Navy as quickly as an army or air force it simply takes time.

Realistically if the entire German navy put to sea with the Bismark they would have caused the British a bit of heart burn until the RAF or they called enough capital ships back to hunt them down.

The Italian fleet did pretty good in the Med for a bit, but other than that capital ships played no real part in the European war expect for popping a few rounds on beach's, oh and starting it.
 
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Originally Posted By: Eddie
Now we have the IOWA class launching 16 inch shells and Cruse missles with a 500 mile range.


The last Iowa class battleship to be decommissioned was the Missouri in 1992. The Iowa was decommissioned in 1990 and mothballed until 2006. With the iowa having been turned into a museum ship, and era has truly come to an end.

The Missouri was featured in the 1992 blockbuster Under Siege with Steven Seagul, Tommy Lee Jones, Gary Busey and former Baywatch girl Erika "Eyebrows" Eleniak. And of course Cher perfomed If I Could Turn Back Time on the Missouri. It looks like the 16 inch guns had been polished to Navy specs for the event!

hotwheels
 
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
I just watched "Sink the Bismark" on YT over the weekend, and could see why the era of the big battleship had to come to an end. The Bismark sunk the Hood with 3 salvoes, but was disabled by a torpedo to her rudder launched from an antiquated Fairey Swordfish biplane. If a fragile wood, wire, and fabric "stringbag" worth about $8000 can render a capital ship useless, it no longer makes sense to waste money on the big battle wagons.


This is true. Though the Brits couldn't sink her. The Germans had to scuttle it to get her to go down. Blew the magazine.

What amazes me was the ineptitude of the Bismarck deployment. Originally the two Bismarck-class sister ships were to sail together but Tirpitz wasn't ready to sail and Hitler was impatient and so the plan was basically scrapped and Bismarck sailed with a small group of U-boats and Prinz Eugen. As with many of these scenarios one wonders how differently they would have played out without the epic blunders.


I highly recommend Léonce Peillard's Sink the Tirpitz! an excellently researched and thrilling novel (docudrama) based on eyewitness accounts and involved in the events leading up to and including the sinking of the Tirpitz. The tale of how Churchill made sure the Tirpitz, which he called "The Beast," his bête noire, would be destroyed at all and any cost. It's a riveting story about spies, torpedo riders, mini-submarines, and the development of special bombs that could puncture the Tirpitz's armor. The story is told from both sides, and it is clear that the command staff of the Tirpitz was at odds with the plans the Kriegsmarine had for the battleship. The book is from 1965, and Peillard researched and interviewed involved people with their memories relatively intact. Really a must-read for naval history buffs.

hotwheels
 
Originally Posted By: Mystic
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
The stuff they dont teach you in history class. Wow!



History in American classrooms today is a joke. The young people have no idea what they are missing.



Not to mention the propaganda and outright proven lies. Begins with Columbus
 
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
I just watched "Sink the Bismark" on YT over the weekend, and could see why the era of the big battleship had to come to an end. The Bismark sunk the Hood with 3 salvoes, but was disabled by a torpedo to her rudder launched from an antiquated Fairey Swordfish biplane. If a fragile wood, wire, and fabric "stringbag" worth about $8000 can render a capital ship useless, it no longer makes sense to waste money on the big battle wagons.


This is true. Though the Brits couldn't sink her. The Germans had to scuttle it to get her to go down. Blew the magazine.

What amazes me was the ineptitude of the Bismarck deployment. Originally the two Bismarck-class sister ships were to sail together but Tirpitz wasn't ready to sail and Hitler was impatient and so the plan was basically scrapped and Bismarck sailed with a small group of U-boats and Prinz Eugen. As with many of these scenarios one wonders how differently they would have played out without the epic blunders.


I doubt they would have done much more than the German high seas fleet did in 1918, other than rust well.

Germany is not a navel power, and in 1940 they were much less than they were in 1914. The Kriegsmarine repeatedly told Hitler that their could be no thought of war before 1948, look up Plan Z. You simply cannot build a Navy as quickly as an army or air force it simply takes time.

Realistically if the entire German navy put to sea with the Bismark they would have caused the British a bit of heart burn until the RAF or they called enough capital ships back to hunt them down.

The Italian fleet did pretty good in the Med for a bit, but other than that capital ships played no real part in the European war expect for popping a few rounds on beach's, oh and starting it.


Germany's most effective naval power was with the U-boats. They almost succeeded in starving England with a relatively small investment in men and equipment.
 
Originally Posted By: hotwheels
Originally Posted By: Eddie
Now we have the IOWA class launching 16 inch shells and Cruse missles with a 500 mile range.


The last Iowa class battleship to be decommissioned was the Missouri in 1992. The Iowa was decommissioned in 1990 and mothballed until 2006. With the iowa having been turned into a museum ship, and era has truly come to an end.

The Missouri was featured in the 1992 blockbuster Under Siege with Steven Seagul, Tommy Lee Jones, Gary Busey and former Baywatch girl Erika "Eyebrows" Eleniak. And of course Cher perfomed If I Could Turn Back Time on the Missouri. It looks like the 16 inch guns had been polished to Navy specs for the event!

hotwheels




How can you ignore the 2012 blockbuster "Battleship" in your list?!? My son and I walked the decks of the Missouri that summer - and the crew/docents were pretty excited about the movie.

The plot was contrived and stereotyped, the acting wooden and unbelievable, but the old girl stole the show!

The 10 minutes from boiler light-off to 16" guns engaging the aliens was simply fantastic!

Every battleship fan (of which I am one) loved that scene...

Wisconsin is here in Norfolk, just now retired from the inactive reserve and turned over to the city of Norfolk, which allows more of the ship to be opened to the public.
 
Originally Posted By: Eddie
Now we have the IOWA class launching 16 inch shells and Cruse missles with a 500 mile range.


Had...

However, the battle wagon of the future may not be able to take the close-in slugfest of gun on gun naval combat, but the rail gun is going to give even a frigate one heck of a punch! That GPS guided aluminum slug traveling at over 8,000 FPS doesn't even need explosive to be effective...its kinetic energy alone is devastating...
 
The rail gun will bring back a sort of battleship, it actually solved many of the problems the 16in guns created. Most notably powder storage.

The problem with capital ships is they are to costly to lose.
 
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Originally Posted By: hotwheels
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
I just watched "Sink the Bismark" on YT over the weekend, and could see why the era of the big battleship had to come to an end. The Bismark sunk the Hood with 3 salvoes, but was disabled by a torpedo to her rudder launched from an antiquated Fairey Swordfish biplane. If a fragile wood, wire, and fabric "stringbag" worth about $8000 can render a capital ship useless, it no longer makes sense to waste money on the big battle wagons.


This is true. Though the Brits couldn't sink her. The Germans had to scuttle it to get her to go down. Blew the magazine.

What amazes me was the ineptitude of the Bismarck deployment. Originally the two Bismarck-class sister ships were to sail together but Tirpitz wasn't ready to sail and Hitler was impatient and so the plan was basically scrapped and Bismarck sailed with a small group of U-boats and Prinz Eugen. As with many of these scenarios one wonders how differently they would have played out without the epic blunders.


I highly recommend Léonce Peillard's Sink the Tirpitz! an excellently researched and thrilling novel (docudrama) based on eyewitness accounts and involved in the events leading up to and including the sinking of the Tirpitz. The tale of how Churchill made sure the Tirpitz, which he called "The Beast," his bête noire, would be destroyed at all and any cost. It's a riveting story about spies, torpedo riders, mini-submarines, and the development of special bombs that could puncture the Tirpitz's armor. The story is told from both sides, and it is clear that the command staff of the Tirpitz was at odds with the plans the Kriegsmarine had for the battleship. The book is from 1965, and Peillard researched and interviewed involved people with their memories relatively intact. Really a must-read for naval history buffs.

hotwheels


That sounds very good! I'll be sure to try and source it, thanks!
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