Honda Civic - Broken Timing Belt

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Originally Posted By: Carnoobie
Originally Posted By: ltslimjim
My thoughts are water pump related if not the tensioner. Removing the top timing cover + valve cover while running should reveal if it's anything related to that area.


Thats what the first mech said too. To remove the timing cover, you need to remove a helluva lot of stuff just to get to it. Power steering pump, valve cover, what else?


SOHC should be easier than a DOHC in an LX or Si(IIRC). Just look for which bolts need to come off the top valve cover, have a torque wrench for when you put things back together, analyze what might prevent valve cover removal(pump or just reservoir?) before you begin.

You could snap a few pics and post them up if curious to do this on your own, for tips.
 
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Originally Posted By: ltslimjim
Originally Posted By: Carnoobie
Originally Posted By: ltslimjim
My thoughts are water pump related if not the tensioner. Removing the top timing cover + valve cover while running should reveal if it's anything related to that area.


Thats what the first mech said too. To remove the timing cover, you need to remove a helluva lot of stuff just to get to it. Power steering pump, valve cover, what else?


SOHC should be easier than a DOHC in an LX or Si(IIRC). Just look for which bolts need to come off the top valve cover, have a torque wrench for when you put things back together, analyze what might prevent valve cover removal(pump or just reservoir?) before you begin.

You could snap a few pics and post them up if curious to do this on your own, for tips.


I wont be doing it anyways haha ya right.

Sounds like the valve cover has to come off regardless according to the DIY.
 
Originally Posted By: Carnoobie




Just trying to decide which of the 2 mechs to take it to tommorow. Theyre both free tommorow.

Both quoted me 3-3.5hrs.

1) $200. 30min drive away, he knows hondas well.
2) $150. 15min drive away, but he said he doesnt know hondas too well, but doesnt mean he cant do the job. He said hes done a timing belt on a honda CRV before. Hes a Ford cert. mech.




You got your answer, if the first shop isn't lying you should definitely take it there.

The "can do" mentality is great, until they....can't do it and possibly create other problems which will make quite a headache for you .
 
Originally Posted By: Carnoobie

1) $200. 30min drive away, he knows hondas well.
2) $150. 15min drive away, but he said he doesnt know hondas too well, but doesnt mean he cant do the job. He said hes done a timing belt on a honda CRV before. Hes a Ford cert. mech.

Asked the ford mech a couple questions to see what kind of answers he'd give. 1) Does the valve cover have to come off to do this job? He said no whereas the first mech said yes.

First mechanic is right. Use him.
 
Well been here for 4hrs now we cant get the [censored] crankshaft bolt off. We tried everything even breakerbar and sipe. So putting everything back together and i miht have to take it to a shop to get this done ***+!!!! so [censored]!
 
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Ok we finally got the new tensioner in. The old one was toast. Just finishing up putting everything back. Dont think mech is too happy cause the 3.5hr job he quoted me is turning into a 7 hr job. He said $150 from the start no matter if we go over 3.5hrs. Ill see if he wants more money or will keep his promise. You think i should offer more money?
 
16151213.jpg


well there you go, the old tensioner. You spun it by hand and had noise when spinning, new one was dead quiet. I got to see it all hands on, now i know exactly how a timing belt is changed and all the work involved and why its such a big pain in the [censored] job.

Noise is all gone now. FU to piece of [censored] honda dealer for not replacing it 32,000km ago. Paid out of my [censored] for this job. Good thing is the good mech kept his word and only charged me $150 (his original quote 3hrs) even though it took us 6 cause it took forever to get the crankshaft bolt off. Was almost not gonna get it off and was this close to putting everything back together and coming back next week.

and finally adjusted the crankshaft to TDC whereas the previous mech who I paid $150 to adjust my valves didnt [censored] do it. Not only that but he quoted me 1.5hrs at first, then took him 2.5hrs and billed me 2.5hrs. the UP spoke was way off TDC, more to the right bottom. Im thinking about ditching this one mech cause of this. And he doesnt even give that good of prices, maybe $15/hr less than a shop.
 
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I would drive to the dealership, show them the tensioner above which you had to pay ANOTHER place do re-do their work.

Complain. They may actually do something about your 2nd bill to this person you paid to re-do the job.

Worth a try and at least you can put down the dealer.
confused2.gif


Yeah, maybe they can't 'know' if one is about to go out, but maybe they should at least know the original tensioner isn't just 'always' capable of twice the service interval(life of 2 belts).
 
Originally Posted By: ltslimjim
I would drive to the dealership, show them the tensioner above which you had to pay ANOTHER place do re-do their work.

Complain. They may actually do something about your 2nd bill to this person you paid to re-do the job.

Worth a try and at least you can put down the dealer.
confused2.gif


Yeah, maybe they can't 'know' if one is about to go out, but maybe they should at least know the original tensioner isn't just 'always' capable of twice the service interval(life of 2 belts).


I would but few obstacles.

1) When this car had its timing belt and waterpump done 32,000km ago, i wasnt the owner.

2) No physical receipt, though i can confirm by having called this dealer in the past couple weeks that they do have this belt change on their system.
 
Getting this service done this week and asked about the tensioner at every one of the Honda dealers I called. Universally was not included in the timing belt service package they offer. I'm paying an additional $75 (no additional labor charge) so I don't end up in the OP's shoes.
 
GATES COMPANY STOLE ALL OF THESE PHOTOS.
They use all these pics in the timing kits they sent out... I doubt they asked for rights...

Shredded belt jammed in the tensioner
IMG_0914.jpg


Mangled tensioner spring
IMG_0917.jpg


One of the 8 bent valves
IMG_0922.jpg



IMG_0921.jpg
 
well since you bumped this thread, i'll throw my 2 cents

Its unlikely the spring caused the belt to shred. The spring is only relevant at the time of tensioning the belt. Once the tension is set, the tensioner bolt is tighten down and the tensioner and spring will be seated for as long as that timing belt is in service. I am guessing the shop did not tension it correctly in the first place and caused the belt to be stressed during it's 16k mile run and or maybe the belt was rubbing on something and wore it down.

I just did my timing belt with a gates t-belt :\
 
I was not aware that spring does NOT provide the tension once everything is bolted up. Can somebody else confirm this?
 
Originally Posted By: Vikas
I was not aware that spring does NOT provide the tension once everything is bolted up. Can somebody else confirm this?


That is correct, once tight you can remove the spring if you wanted to.

Smoky
 
I'll 3rd that RE: tensioner spring is not for providing tension.

It's meant for facilitating that initial tentioning when installing/adjusting T-belt. Once the T-belt tensioning is done, a bolt is used to lock down the tensioner bearing and the spring is essentially sitting there useless.

(You must done enough T-belt changes in order to understand/figure that part out)

Q.
 
It's a pity that Honda makes interference engines. You should definitely go with OEM for all timing-belt parts and have it done by someone who's an expert or do it yourself if you have all the knowledge. I would have it done at the Honda dealer. The last time I had my timing belt changed was at the Toyota of Hollywood and they gave me a great deal.
 
The spring there to provide tension. Without it there is no tension. Removing it will destroy the engine. The tensioner is not locked in place after torquing the mounting bolt, the tensioner is free to move once the initial position is set... I already threw away my old one, so I cant check the tensioner anymore, but without automatic tensioning, slack from belt stretch would be a serious problem.
The there is no internal tensioner in the assembly.

Originally Posted By: Quest
I'll 3rd that RE: tensioner spring is not for providing tension.

It's meant for facilitating that initial tentioning when installing/adjusting T-belt. Once the T-belt tensioning is done, a bolt is used to lock down the tensioner bearing and the spring is essentially sitting there useless.

(You must done enough T-belt changes in order to understand/figure that part out)

Q.

Originally Posted By: Smoky14
Originally Posted By: Vikas
I was not aware that spring does NOT provide the tension once everything is bolted up. Can somebody else confirm this?


That is correct, once tight you can remove the spring if you wanted to.

Smoky
 
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Originally Posted By: Vikas
I was not aware that spring does NOT provide the tension once everything is bolted up. Can somebody else confirm this?

Skepticism is helpful, and now I trust the credibility of message boards less.
 
I dont see any location to edit posts. I have to triple post.

Here is also a complete 04 civic timing belt file. https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B0CneLM2YSitUER4Uk1Ock5Fczg&authuser=0

Some search words: 2001‑2005 Honda Civic 01 civic 02 civic 03 civic 04 civic 05 civic 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005

I think this site gets indexed on google, which helps.

The job is not super cramped, but when I took my belt out, I removed the alternator, power steering pump, and both brackets. Dont know what the manual calls for, but I took everything out. Also got a pretty looking clear timing cover, that ended up fitting only after cutting parts off.
 
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