Pickup Trucks: 2wd vs 4wd

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: Claud
4WD will help you to keep going on icy roads, but they won't help tou stop any better.
When we do get iced roads over here recovery trucks are kept busy pulling 4WD's out of ditches because the drivers overestimated their abilities.

Claud.


Same here, it's usually the clown in the 4x4 that's in the ditch. Some of the drivers of 4WD think they're golden in snow and ice, and learn quickly the hard way that's not the case.

 

[SwedishRider]

I was at a local Ford dealership in the last few days, and I was looking at their used trucks. They had a really nice 2010 F-150 4x4 4dr truck with a little under 50K miles. It looked really clean, just a great looking truck.

The price? $24K and change! And that's within the range KBB lists for that vehicle with those miles in my area. Just ridiculous amounts of money really...

I'm sticking with my 2wd Ranger... trucks are just WAY overpriced right now.

 

[oldmaninsc]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: Claud
4WD will help you to keep going on icy roads, but they won't help tou stop any better.
When we do get iced roads over here recovery trucks are kept busy pulling 4WD's out of ditches because the drivers overestimated their abilities.

Claud.


Same here, it's usually the clown in the 4x4 that's in the ditch. Some of the drivers of 4WD think they're golden in snow and ice, and learn quickly the hard way that's not the case.


LOL Exactly! A few years ago I was driving through the mountains of northern Ca. THere had been a lot of snow on top of the already icy roads. At one point the freeway made a sharp curve to the left, and here was a Toyota 4x4 pickup turned upside down in the ditch. I could see from the tracks that the driver just didn't make the turn - probably going too fast and hit the brakes sending him straight into the ditch.

The funniest part was he was walking around the truck looking at it, and kicking the front bumper presumably in disgust at the truck, not realizing that he was the idiot that wasn't smart enough to know how to drive in this type of driving conditions.

 

[supton]

IMO awd really obscures road conditions. In my two FWD cars, which are stickshift, I can immediately know if the road conditions are poor when I take off. However even I get lulled into a false sense of security while moving--I'll slow down and realize abs is working hard. awd "masks" road conditions initially, and then momentum rules--until one wants to change direction.

IMO the move to automatics is probably helping to drive the "need" for awd. Losing the clutch means it is harder to modulate power to get moving in snow. DBW systems can also be annoying, if it has lag or just plain heavy tip-in.

 

[supton]

Originally Posted By: SwedishRider
I was at a local Ford dealership in the last few days, and I was looking at their used trucks. They had a really nice 2010 F-150 4x4 4dr truck with a little under 50K miles. It looked really clean, just a great looking truck.

The price? $24K and change! And that's within the range KBB lists for that vehicle with those miles in my area. Just ridiculous amounts of money really...

I'm sticking with my 2wd Ranger... trucks are just WAY overpriced right now.

High demand, keeps the price up. Could go older / more used, and bring the price down. Or wait for gas prices to spike.

 

[Traction]

When I was young and no one had 4WD and only RWD, I hardly recall seeing anyone upside down in the ditch. Now, most of the time, it is a 4WD in the ditch. It doesn't make poor drivers better, just 4 times more dangerous. Sure 4WD can be great for some, but bad drivers would be better with 2WD. Then, maybe, they would stay off the road, or go slower. And, when the paved roads are clear, which is 99% of the time, 4WD is a total waste of money. Especially when you consider all the ones that never see snow, and nothing but pavement. But they look cool though, because they could.

 

[philipp10]

Originally Posted By: supton
Originally Posted By: philipp10
why can't they build a decent front wheel drive truck and be done with it. I have no desire to have the complexity and extra weight of 4WD. I grew up in the 1960's and back then, 4WD was very rare. Somehow we all go around fine. Now everyone acts like 4WD is a necessity.


Ridgeline and perhaps Baja in automatic are close to that. VW Caddy was FWD, as was Dodge Challenger.

Ive found my fwd eventually hit their limits, and only after a few inches. I don't like using momentum to "fix" traction problems.


4WD can get you in trouble real quick, same for limited slip differential. In a rear drive, you can never cause you front steering wheels to go out from under you by accellerating. If your in 4 x 4, take a curve and hit the gas and both axles can potentially slip.

 

[GaleHawkins]

Around here both the guys and gals are going for a PU truck over a car as their first vehicle and they are typically extended cabs that can haul at least four people so so. I had been driving for over 20 years when I bought my first PU Truck in 1987. Trucks are common daily drivers anymore and are profit centers for many makers.

Knew a guy years ago with a AWD MPV Mazda and the next time I saw it something looked different about it so I asked him about it. He said it was similar to the one he had but this one was a two wheel drive because on a winter road he learned 4WD did not stop any better than a 2WD on ice and snow after totalling the other one.

Being physically limited with arthritis I do not play in the snow like once but we do have to go because of the wife's job. Our go to snow/ice vehicle is the 2000 Towncar as I have mentioned due to good traction thanks to the Trac feature that applies the brake to the spinning rear wheel plus when shifted to 2nd gear manually it does not shift up or down so it limits the power to the rear drive wheels to enhance the ability to get moving without spinning out. In West KY 6" is about the max we ever see on the ground at one time.

There are people that really need 4WD vehicles then there are those of us who learned have to move on snow and ice before the event of 4WD vehicles.

Buying used limits one 2WD options. We found the low mileage 2007 Dakota ST 2WD and bought it for the daughter even through the timing would have been better a year from now. Her twin brother is going to keep his project truck for another year or two as he builds speed at removing and replacing front bumpers and grills.

 

[Al]

Originally Posted By: Merkava_4

What? You mean you don't have to get out of your truck, turn the little red dial on the front hubs, and then drive backwards and slam on your brakes no more?

Both my trucks had manual lock ins. Not that big a deal just to lock them up when you anticipate snow. Un less you are going on a long trip you can keep them locked up. It just costs about 1 mpg.

Never had hubs where you had to drive in reverse and put on the brakes. That must have been in the 50's ..lol.

 

[TWG1572]

Originally Posted By: supton
IMO awd really obscures road conditions.


I think this is very true. I own a 4wd truck, but drive in 2wd about 75% of the time during snow/ice conditions. 2wd lets me feel the road conditions much better. That said, I also know that I have to feather the throttle when accellerating in slipper conditions or my back end likes to break loose.

I'll always have 4wd trucks. One of the factors for me is that I live in the country, and our township's plow trucks are notoriously slow. There are many days where I have to drift bust on my way to or from work. I also live in hilly terrain, and drive around in fields where 2wd just won't get you up the hills. I've tried and failed. I remember walking home 5 miles back when I was a kid because my dad got his 2wd truck too far down the hill and it couldn't make it back up. This was pre cellphone, etc.

I will have to say that I'm happy to see this thread made it this far without the pickup bashing beginning. It seems that always happens on this site.

 

[clinebarger]

Here in North Texas...It is hard to find a Diesel pick-up without 4wd. Had to special order all my Dodge trucks, Got lucky on the Chevy....Nobody wanted it because it is 2wd.

In our climate it doesn't make sense? I think it is more of a status symbol here....

 

[meep]

We've got a good mix of 4x4 and 4x2 here in the south. Lots of folks just drive regular 2wd with an extended cab. not a lot of standard cabs any more. You'll also see a bunch of double-cab trucks, and a good # of them are 2wd. I'd wager that about half the trucks down here are 2wd and half 4wd. There is a TON of truck culture here, so 4x4s are popular just because, and a small number of them are lifted. a smaller number are "bro trucks." Pickups are as ubiquitous here as SUVs are in DC. I never see trail dirt on the bro trucks or even most of the lifted ones in general.

It seems that a lot of the desirable options may come with 4x4, or the dealer stocks them this way.

I do find it interesting that with newer trucks and SUVs, the incident of front driveline repairs seem to be increasing with folks that actually use it. I noticed with both unibody jeep offerings and gen one Tundras (just because I read those boards) that various bushings related to the front diffs fail early in life, and in the case of jeep, AWD T-cases can't handle much either. GM's front axle solenoid seems to fail early in life, ford's AWD t-cases can become rambunctious in the expi's, and savvy owners disable the feature behind the rotary knob just to be done with it... the systems do seem to wear more than a good old t-case grab handle and manual hubs (of course, those would balk if the grease ran out of them). Folks that own it and never use it or stress it.... may never know....

 

[Johnny2Bad]

I live in "4x4 country" and have always bought 2wd trucks. I don't get stuck much, and have always been able to drive out when I have. I also routinely drive 4x4 trucks via work, and find them easier to put into the ditch due to the inherent understeer (which increases as you move closer to maximum lock), and harder to get out. Having 4 wheels dig into soft ground is not better than 2 wheels digging into soft ground.

A 4x4 has a poorer steering response than a 2wd truck, and that is true even in 2wd mode on a 4x4.
A 4x4 has a complex front end and you can expect to spend about $2000 in maintenance about every 60,000 mi. 2wd front ends last longer and cost less for maintenance.

Really, if you need 4wd you should probably know it ... by that I mean where are you driving and how much off-road do you do. So that's what you should buy. Some people have a hard time figuring out exactly how much difficult terrain they drive, so here's an easy way to figure it out ... how often in the truck you drive or are a passenger in does the need to shift into low range on the 4x4 arise?

Once or twice every few years is 2wd territory, more than twice a year and you need a 4x4 on your next purchase.

If you're on prepared roads (not necessarily paved roads) 2wd works fine, perhaps even better, than 4wd.

Towing in a 4x4, unless it's very occasional and relatively short distances, is going to cost you in maintenance & repair as this is severe duty for the more complex drivetrain.

Buying a used 4x4 is a bit riskier, since you don't know how well the front end has been maintained. It's not optional ... if you avoid it, it just costs more; you end up replacing parts instead of buying maintenance parts.

A 2wd truck with good tires is better than a 4wd truck with poor tires pretty much every time, and I see a tendency around here to assume a 4x4 solves all traction problems so owners tend to make poorer tire choices and leave them longer before replacement.

I don't drive much in mud, but as far as snow, gravel roads either summer or winter, bush trails, and farmer's fields go I'm on them about 40% of the time in the 2wd truck. I run a taller 285 mud+snow tire (oem is 245) and that pretty much takes care of the non-paved road issues.

 

[MinamiKotaro]

2wd for me. I don't need 4wd to haul firewood or tow my Polaris.

I never had any problem with my 2wd S10 in the snow, as long as I remembered to put the sandbags in. Without sandbags, I still didn't have much trouble if I was careful.

I took it down Trail 1 and part of Trail 13 at Royal Blue, once. Those, at the time, were the easiest trails there but I had seen 4wds stuck in the very same parts of the trail I drove.

I only ever had one accident. Coming home from my girlfriend's, I suddenly spun out and hit the ditch. I was able to back out after a couple of tries. I wasn't going fast, the road wasn't wet, and it was summer, so obviously no ice. I never could figure it out.

 

[HangFire]

I agree with some of the qualified statements (not hilly country, driving more carefully, staying home when ice and snow gets crazy) about 2WD suitability here in this thread, but each seems to be followed up in this thread by an unqualified agreement at 4WD is just not necessary. Not the same thing!

Take this post. Yes, there are some facts here, in 4WD trucks understeer, AWD vehicles, not so much. But really, let's take a sniff test on some of these statements...

Originally Posted By: Johnny2Bad
I also routinely drive 4x4 trucks via work, and find them easier to put into the ditch due to the inherent understeer (which increases as you move closer to maximum lock), and harder to get out.

I used to drive 4x4 (4x6?) Dually's at work all the time, and they would get stuck in a mud puddle. The problem was the high load rating highway tires with the zig-zag tread. This problem is so irrelevant to the thread I wouldn't bring it up except you brought it up. Work trucks typically have long lasting high load highway tires totally unsuitable for off-pavement work. Anyone considering the 4WD versus 2WD question due to cost constraints is unlikely to even consider such a vehicle.
Originally Posted By: Johnny2Bad
Having 4 wheels dig into soft ground is not better than 2 wheels digging into soft ground.

Uh-huh. Sure. To me, having 4WD means moving instead of digging in.
Originally Posted By: Johnny2Bad
A 4x4 has a complex front end and you can expect to spend about $2000 in maintenance about every 60,000 mi. 2wd front ends last longer and cost less for maintenance.

Uh-huh. $2K every 60K miles. Sure.

I've had the same 4WD for 14 years and have exactly $0 in front end maintenance after 130K miles. Well, I replaced the shocks twice and the semi-metallic brakes for the first time at over 100K miles if you really want to count that, but I don't think 2WD will do any better. I'm thinking of replacing the front U-Joints, just as a precaution, but it's not necessary yet. If so I'll be into that for about $55.
Originally Posted By: Johnny2Bad
A 2wd truck with good tires is better than a 4wd truck with poor tires pretty much every time, and I see a tendency around here to assume a 4x4 solves all traction problems so owners tend to make poorer tire choices and leave them longer before replacement.

People with poor judgement make poor decisions, like buying a Diesel pickup "because it's tough" when they have nothing to tow. That and poor tire choices really are a side issue.

While you make some good points in your post, they're really lost in the mistakes. I owned a 2WD Dakota and took it places no 2WD should go, and now I own a 4WD Dakota. I know the limits of both, but there's hardly a comparison to be made.

 

[exranger06]

Originally Posted By: Johnny2Bad

A 4x4 has a complex front end and you can expect to spend about $2000 in maintenance about every 60,000 mi. 2wd front ends last longer and cost less for maintenance.

I've been driving 4wd trucks since I first got my driver's license and have never needed to spend $2k every 60k miles on parts. I have about 60k miles on my 4wd Ranger and I've never done anything to the front end, and I still don't have to. The truck has never even had an alignment.

I did ball joints and a drag link on my 4wd Explorer a few years ago for about $400.

And last year I completely rebuilt the ENTIRE front suspension on my Bronco, replacing EVERY wear part (including some parts that didn't even really need to be replaced) and I still came in under $1200. Most of the components I replaced were the factory original parts with over 220k miles on them.

My only guess as to how you came up with such a ridiculous figure is you're using a shop that uses junk parts that wear out after 60k miles and they're overcharging you 3 times more than other shops.

 

[MNgopher]

I've owned 2wd trucks and 4wd trucks. In fact, 5 different 4x4 vehicles with lots of years and hundreds of thousands of miles. In that times and miles, I haven't spent $2000 on front end maintenance of parts specific to a 4x4. Counting gear oil changes, I'm in for maybe $300 bucks. If you have that every 60,000 miles, you are being ripped off or are really, really hard on your stuff.

It all comes down to what you want. Nobody else can (or should) tell you whether you need one or the other.

 

[Al]

4WD trucks in my experience hold up better bc suspension components are stronger....at least they used to be.

 

[SteveSRT8]

As a fleet owner I am never a fan of 4wd. Why carry two sets of running gear here in Fl? It's just rarely needed at all.

My son recently shopped for a 2500 Suburban and every 4wd model he looked at needed front end work and/or drivetrain work. He got a gorgeous 2wd in excellent condition for less money.

IME the extra weight and complexity really hurts with high miles, keep it simple...

 

[IndyIan]

Often the rwd version of an SUV isn't even sold in Canada, but so far I've only had to replace one seal on the front axle of the Tracker. I did have to do ball joints as well but they are the same part as on the 2wd version. Perhaps the extra 100-200lbs weight caused them to wear faster, but they lasted 240k km so I guess that's decent life.
I agree though, if your situation doesn't require 4wd, it becomes needless complexity and inefficiency. If you need it though, whatever extra it costs doesn't seem significant at the time.