Purple Ice

[slomo]

Originally Posted By: jk_636
Originally Posted By: slomo
I've used purple ice and water wetter. No noticeable drop in temps were found. Also had a couple friends try out water wetter along with myself in our motorcycles. Again no drop in temps found. All our bikes ran at the same temp on all the gauges. Waste of money.

Where I can see a possible cooling improvement is when one flushes their coolant and cleans out their radiator, then adds purple water wetter gimmick snake oil junk. All due to the flush and cleaning action of their cooling system.

slomo


Didn't notice any difference huh? Your bikes aren't air cooled are they?

All were water cooled. Guess I lost you there...

slomo

 

[jk_636]

Originally Posted By: slomo
Originally Posted By: jk_636
Originally Posted By: slomo
I've used purple ice and water wetter. No noticeable drop in temps were found. Also had a couple friends try out water wetter along with myself in our motorcycles. Again no drop in temps found. All our bikes ran at the same temp on all the gauges. Waste of money.

Where I can see a possible cooling improvement is when one flushes their coolant and cleans out their radiator, then adds purple water wetter gimmick snake oil junk. All due to the flush and cleaning action of their cooling system.

slomo


Didn't notice any difference huh? Your bikes aren't air cooled are they?

All were water cooled. Guess I lost you there...

slomo


Apparently many here dont understand sarcasm....

 

[zpinch]

Water wetters are a good product, I use Amsoil's dominator coolant boost... decreases warm up time noticeably by a couple minutes, very important in cold winter temps. It also stops cooling system corrosion in it's tracks, as the coolant boost clings to metals surfaces and acts as a barrier, and even seals hair-line cracks. It will reduce hot spots in engine as well.

 

[kschachn]

Makes me wonder how I got along all these years without it.

But how does it do that? The only way to make it warm up faster would be to inhibit heat transfer to the cooling system. I thought the product was supposed to increase heat transfer?

Originally Posted By: zpinch
Water wetters are a good product, I use Amsoil's dominator coolant boost... decreases warm up time noticeably by a couple minutes, very important in cold winter temps. It also stops cooling system corrosion in it's tracks, as the coolant boost clings to metals surfaces and acts as a barrier, and even seals hair-line cracks. It will reduce hot spots in engine as well.

 

[kschachn]

Nobody? My question/argument has a hole in it a mile wide, I just wanted to see what the response was to bring up a bigger issue.

 

[Shannow]

kschachn,
as is usual for all of these "must use" products, they are capable of achieving things that are mutually exclusive in "traditional coolants" that have to rely on the laws of physics rather than the laws of marketing.

The fact that many can't even see where the claims oppose each other is really sad.

 

[jk_636]

Originally Posted By: zpinch
Water wetters are a good product, I use Amsoil's dominator coolant boost... decreases warm up time noticeably by a couple minutes, very important in cold winter temps. It also stops cooling system corrosion in it's tracks, as the coolant boost clings to metals surfaces and acts as a barrier, and even seals hair-line cracks. It will reduce hot spots in engine as well.


That was one of the first things I noticed. The engine warmed up to operating temp. NOTICEABLY faster than before, and then decreased the operating temp. by a few degrees on the gauge.

 

[zpinch]

I do it more for the anti corrosion benefits...

 

[PhillipM]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
Makes me wonder how I got along all these years without it.

But how does it do that? The only way to make it warm up faster would be to inhibit heat transfer to the cooling system. I thought the product was supposed to increase heat transfer?


Since the coolant temperature is taken from the water temp, and the thermostat would be closed keeping circulation around the block - it would probably indicate faster heat transfer to the water, no?

 

[jk_636]

I assume that it warms up faster and then cools the final femp a little lower due to the change in surface tension. More water to the metal, more heat transfer and exchange.

 

[kschachn]

Well, more heat transfer would result in the coolant temperature being higher, correct? Isn't one of the claims for the product that that the coolant temperature is lower? How can the coolant temperature be lower when it is taking more heat away from the engine?

Originally Posted By: jk_636
I assume that it warms up faster and then cools the final femp a little lower due to the change in surface tension. More water to the metal, more heat transfer and exchange.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: jk_636
I assume that it warms up faster and then cools the final femp a little lower due to the change in surface tension. More water to the metal, more heat transfer and exchange.


The best assumptions can be linked to science that typically has a set of laws (not suggestions) that are pretty well consistent.

Warm up, the alleged benefits of a surfactant can't hold, as there is no potential for boiling to be taking, pace, no free surface, nothing for a surfactant to "wet" as it's all wet already.

So the goop has to lower the specific heat of the water during warm-up, so that a fixed volume of coolant gets to temperature faster.

Then it has to raise the specific heat during normal operation to carry more heat (while running cooler), and taking in all that extra heat from the now wet steam pockets.

Surely the things that this product "does" is starting to sound a little more what can be achieved in a marketting universe rather than the physical one that we inhabit.

 

[jk_636]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
Well, more heat transfer would result in the coolant temperature being higher, correct? Isn't one of the claims for the product that that the coolant temperature is lower? How can the coolant temperature be lower when it is taking more heat away from the engine?

Originally Posted By: jk_636
I assume that it warms up faster and then cools the final femp a little lower due to the change in surface tension. More water to the metal, more heat transfer and exchange.


No. Coolant temperature drops as more surface area directly equates to more
BTUs being dispersed through cooling fins of radiator.

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: jk_636
I assume that it warms up faster and then cools the final femp a little lower due to the change in surface tension. More water to the metal, more heat transfer and exchange.


The best assumptions can be linked to science that typically has a set of laws (not suggestions) that are pretty well consistent.

Warm up, the alleged benefits of a surfactant can't hold, as there is no potential for boiling to be taking, pace, no free surface, nothing for a surfactant to "wet" as it's all wet already.

So the goop has to lower the specific heat of the water during warm-up, so that a fixed volume of coolant gets to temperature faster.

Then it has to raise the specific heat during normal operation to carry more heat (while running cooler), and taking in all that extra heat from the now wet steam pockets.

Surely the things that this product "does" is starting to sound a little more what can be achieved in a marketting universe rather than the physical one that we inhabit.


This "goop" has the same viscosity as water, so it is not "goop" at all.

I'm not 100% on how it works, but in the physical universe cause and effect are directly related. I see an effect, so there must be a cause.

If you don't like it, don't use it. Or perhaps try it yourself and see if it passes your most stringent quality tests....

 

[kschachn]

Whoa, wait a minute. You mean the radiator is able to reject more heat due to the additive? How is that possible? Isn't the heat transfer across the radiator a function of the radiator's cross section, OAT and airflow?

Originally Posted By: jk_636
No. Coolant temperature drops as more surface area directly equates to more
BTUs being dispersed through cooling fins of radiator.

 

[jk_636]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
Whoa, wait a minute. You mean the radiator is able to reject more heat due to the additive? How is that possible?

Originally Posted By: jk_636
No. Coolant temperature drops as more surface area directly equates to more
BTUs being dispersed through cooling fins of radiator.


Magic, witchcraft or perhaps 10% unicorn tears by volume.

 

[kschachn]

Yeah, you kind of said that one before.

Originally Posted By: jk_636
Magic, witchcraft or perhaps 10% unicorn tears by volume.

 

[PhillipM]

Originally Posted By: Shannow

So the goop has to lower the specific heat of the water during warm-up, so that a fixed volume of coolant gets to temperature faster.

Then it has to raise the specific heat during normal operation to carry more heat (while running cooler), and taking in all that extra heat from the now wet steam pockets.


What it has to do is improve the coolant/metal interface heat transfer rate, which would achieve both without the marketing voodoo of lowering and then raising the specific heat would take.

 

[Shannow]

The other side is that the radiator (heat exchanger to the ambient) doesn't have surfactant on the exchange face, and has a lower deltaT to work with if the coolant temperature is reduced...it can only move LESS heat that way.

 

[kschachn]

That is correct. I mentioned the items that influence the heat transfer by the radiator, except the temperature differential with the OAT. The problem there is that the heat transfer rate will only go up if the coolant temperature is higher - which is opposite what the product claims to do.

Originally Posted By: Shannow
The other side is that the radiator (heat exchanger to the ambient) doesn't have surfactant on the exchange face, and has a lower deltaT to work with if the coolant temperature is reduced...it can only move LESS heat that way.

 

[philipp10]

I just had to jump in here. Lets break this down. The engine generates heat in the cylinders/block, this heat must be transferred to the radiator fluid at that interface, its then pumped thru the thermostat (after it's opening temp is satisfied), then the heat is transferred to the inner wall of the radiator, finally, this heat travels thru the cooling fins where the air moving past it takes the heat away. The only places this goop could have an effect would be the transfer of heat from the engine block to the fluid and the transfer of heat from the fluid to the inner wall of the radiator. Since the thermostat controls the temperature at opening, I cannot see any way the engine would run cooler.

The only instance where the engine could conceivably run cooler would be if, you were driving in such high heat that the thermostat was wide open and the engine was at a temperature above the thermostat opening temperature. The the higher heat transfer WITH the goop could cool the engine better. But I would argue, if your running an engine with a radiator spec'd that close to what you need, get a larger radiator.

I don't understand your comments that this RAM engine is suspetible to over-heating so badly and that is why you need this additive. Again, if your radiator is specified as too small for your climate, I would look there before purchasing "hope in a can".