Why pilots love their "job"

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Unless a pilot starts out in the military, with all of the risks that come with it, commuters are the only way of building turbine time.
Some European airlines use ab initio training schemes. Lufthansa has for many years, but most US carriers seem too penny wise and pound foolish to even consider this.
You don't just have pilot retirements reducing the supply of developed world ATPs, either. Some Middle Eastern and Asian airlines are largely crewed by American and EU expats flying on contract. It takes a lot of pilots to support a fleet as large as some of these carriers have.
I guess I'm trying to say that with the military training far fewer pilots than it once did and also doing a better job of retaining them, commuter carriers look like the only viable source of future crews for the major carriers based in this country.
It's not as though there are all that many of them available either. It all begins with PPL training and there are fewer people starting PPL training with each passing year.
 
I am not a pilot but I am a quality control inspector at a major carrier and I think that if people knew the 'behind the scenes' stress and hard work that goes into running an airline much of the gloss would be tarnished.

Flying for the Majors is a fantastic job, as is being a mechanic or other licensed profession in the industry. However, with that profession comes long hours, hard work, and unimaginable responsibility.

I hear it quite often from the maintenance staff that the pilots are overpaid and underwork and to this I reply that they can easily put their wrenches down, go to flight school, and move above wing. To this date, after 25 years below wing, I've had only one friend go to flight school and become a pilot. He's now flying for one of our feeder carriers earning about half what I earn. That grass isn't always greener and if it weren't for his wife making good money he'd be struggling.

I salute each and every one of my co-workers. This isn't an easy profession but it is rewarding if it is your passion.
 
Just curious.
If you live in the Southeast, do you work in Charlotte or Atlanta?
 
Mr Nice, I guess it all depends on the individual. I hate to say it but it seems that people today don't want to get dirty. I have had a passion for mechanics ever since I was a small boy. It's just in my blood. If someone is getting into the industry for the paycheck then they're going to be sorely disappointed.

I was lucky in the sense that I was recruited by a major carrier right out of college. I had a job waiting the day I got my licenses. This isn't the case for most people. It's a tough job and crawling around on big jets isn't as fun as it looks.

If you're trying to make ends meet at a regional airport working for $12/hour then there is no glamour in the job. Again, you have to love these machines, you have to have a personality that can tolerate a tedious and meticulous working lifestyle. If a person gets frustrated with things and is quick to declare that their efforts are "good enough" then they're not aircraft mechanic material. It's not for everyone but for the ones that make it to the top it can be very rewarding.
 
I was just curious who you worked for.
ATL is a really neat airport.
The simultaneous ops are something to see and there's usually some interesting spotting as well.
The airport is very easy to navigate for the traveler and has a multitude of options for food and drink on a longish connection.
We've been very pleased with the dominant carrier when we've flown them, which at least has a lot of variety in its mainline fleet.
We've only been through Atlanta on two airlines, with Air Tran being the other.
Good for you for having found a career that suited you and that has worked well for you over the years.
 
91 corporate or 135 is where its at. I used to be [censored] bent on being an airline pilot, but I've lost interest over the years. At this point in my life, I'd be happy driving a King Air for a corporate flight dept.

Pilots don't get any respect. The glamour of this career wore off decades ago
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I once went through initial at a small regional. I ended up leaving because I was so disgusted with the company. Most of these regionals are run by penny pinching slumlords. As a pilot, you're not a treated like a professional or held in any kind of high regard for your skills. Your just a red line on a company's ledger.

All that said, I still love airplanes and love flying.
 
Maximus - sorry that you had to go through that. It's the experience of most of the guys I work with/talk to/jumpseat...and it's awful...as I think I've stated.
 
Maximus:

Your poignant comments are probably reflective of a large group of airline pilot aspirants the last 10-15 years or so. I know a young man with similar views and goals, who left flying altogether, to pursue a different career path.

This is particularly concerning at a time when US/worldwide demand for air travel and demands for new pilots collides with the large number of mandatory retirements of experienced airline crews within the next few years. Further, some pilots will leave the career early/retire due to health issues, family priorities, burnout, etc.

The traditional route to the airline career through the military trained pilot that was characteristic of my era in the mid-1980's, is certainly not going to be the norm in the future as military commitments increased some years ago; fewer pilots are trained and available; the military continues to pay aviation bonuses, etc. Our new generation of airline crews will likely be dominated by graduates of aviation colleges like WMU, ER, Purdue, etc.They may have shorter employment intervals in the regionals before being brought up to the "majors" than in previous eras.

Airline managements, both large and small, have considered pilots a necessary evil for managements to deal with in collective bargaining, union-management relations, etc. I am not sure the attitude toward pilots from management will change much from today's views. I do believe that employee relations with pilots has gotten a lot better than it was decades ago as Lorenzo, Nyrop, et al openly battled with their pilot groups. At my former employer (aka Cobra Airlines), I saw a huge sea change from my earliest days of pilot employment to a more cooperative era near my retirement. I think both groups recognized the necessary marriage of interests for the corporation to succeed for both the shareholders and the various employee groups.

As demand for new pilot candidates increases, I think it bodes well for salary stabilization/growth as differentiated by "the race to the bottom" that I saw at times in my 25 year airline career with A,B and C scale pay rates, rounds of 15% pay cuts, abrogation of contracts in BK, etc.

While I was beyond blessed and had an amazing airline career, it is a difficult lifestyle for many. Being gone every holiday, commuting to the airline/Guard jobs, being on call , etc make this career choice somewhat difficult to choose if you have a family, etc. It is great for a single guy/gal -lots of travel, autonomy, etc. Very hard on relationships ! Not to mention that new pilot entrants will be facing huge amounts of student loan debt to finance their collegiate aviation educations, only to be faced with low wages in their experience building, early employment.

I don't know if we will ever see the proliferation of US based, ab-initio training programs like we have seen in limited use abroad...perhaps. In any event, the US airline industry will be challenged to find the best and the brightest in future years to fill their cockpits. Every airline company around the globe will compete for this talent pool, notwithstanding national citizenship requirements/laws, as worldwide demand grows. A formidable challenge for airline companies and an opportunity for many young men and women to achieve their dreams of flying for the airlines.

Great job with many challenges and risks...
 
10-15 years ago is right on. I took my first lesson in 2002, got my private in 2004 and I've been instructing on and off since 2007. I've worked other jobs and managed to get married, divorced and have two kids in that time frame. Flying is hardly lucrative enough for me, but I don't have any other skills. I should have went into computers or the medical field.

I don't recommend this profession to anyone.
 
Just a suggestion for you guys hung up on airline jobs--there are other options in aviation. I've been a law enforcement aviator since 1997 and been in law enforcement since 1982--I have no regrets.

Although you'll likely have to pay your dues "on the street" before ever getting near an aircraft, if you have skill, patience and perseverance you'll eventually find your way to an aviation job. Although the pay may not rise to the level of a major airline "left-seater", the pay is decent and regular, you usually fly well-maintained, newer aircraft and you do something different every day. You're usually home on a regular basis and the job is personally rewarding.

Airline work is not the be-all, end-all aviation job like it may have been in the past--I urge you guys to expand your job search possibilities--many LE agencies are competing with airlines for the same talent.
 
Originally Posted By: maximus
...Most of these regionals are run by penny pinching slumlords. As a pilot, you're not a treated like a professional or held in any kind of high regard for your skills....



And that's being kind.
 
Sure, but who made the regionals into "penny pinching slumlords"?
The majors have developed a business model that relies upon regionals feeding their hubs from smaller stations, some more than others.
The majors regard this as a cost to be bid down to the lowest possible level.
A regional carrier will in turn cut costs wherever it can so that it can bid competitivly to win flying for a major and employess at every level feel the pain.
Those of us who travel benefit from this in that we can get reasonable fares to almost anywhere from almost anywhere as regionals have extended airline competition into ever smaller stations. In places like Dayton as it is today, competition only exists as a result of major-branded regional flying.
I for one would be happy to pay a few bucks more if that would allow the regionals to provide for decent working conditions and wages for their employees.
 
You would, as would I, but the traveling public is ignorant of the pay and working conditions at the regionals. They simply shop for cheap, and then complain when they don't have overhead space.

I fly a lot as an employee, generally in civilian clothes. I flew over 100,000 miles on Delta as a paying passenger and over 800,000 miles on United as a paying passenger, with a few flights on US Air, American and Southwest thrown in for good measure.

The ignorance of the traveling public has to be experienced to be believed.

For example, on our delayed flight from SAN - IAD last night, I was riding back in row 32, in regular clothes, and everyone was concerned about connections (I am certain many were missed).

As we were taxiing in, a guy (in his 50s, so he should know better) in row 33, right behind me, stood up and started getting his bag from the overhead. I said, "Hey! we're still taxiing, sit down before you get hurt" He yelled at me, I am not kidding, and said "we aren't moving!" I said, "Yes, we are, and if you fall and hurt me, you're going to be in trouble." He yelled even louder, "Chill, dude! What's your problem!"

Then the flight attendant got on the PA and told him to sit down, along with the others who started to jump up before we were at the gate (a quick peek out the window revealed that the airplane was still moving...but this guy wasn't the type to let the facts sway his opinion...).

He was unable to distinguish between a moving airplane and a stationary one, and unable to think beyond his own desires...as were his fellow passengers who jumped up before we were parked.

The seatbelt sign was on ("But it doesn't apply to me! I'm entitled"). The door was still closed (so, no one was going anywhere) and the flight attendant had asked those without connections to remain seated (so, they were going to get off as quickly as was possible, but that still required the plane to be parked and the door to be opened).

Do you think that moron had any clue about the regionals? What the pay was like? What he was getting for service? He's but one example, of thousands that I've witnessed, of the ingorance of the traveling public. They can't find a gate without help (because the signs are in English?), they can't find their seat, they don't know to look at a monitor to see if things have changed, they can't read their own ticket, they ignore the gate agent who tells them that their bag won't fit in the overhead of the RJ (and then delays the flight as they wrestle it back up the aisle), they can't even find the bathroom without help (again, that would require reading a sign, can't be bothered), I've even been confronted and accused by a passenger who told me that I was lying about the weather in Chicago, when I was in uniform, with the weather print-out in my hands that I had just finished showing her!

Nope, the traveling public is largely morons. They couldn't care less about the crew, the pay, the working conditions because it would distract from their complete focus on themselves.
 
For many.... Flying is a chore they dread. So you have to expect Walmart type customers with bad attitude and very idiotic behavior when traveling by air.

Some won't hesitate to drive 700-800 miles before they consider buying a ticket and boarding a plane with all the delays, maintenance problems with plane, nasty travelers , bad food, packed in like sardines, etc,.....etc....

Many passengers don't realize what the airline staff makes yearly to deal with the public. I've never understood why soooooo many young women want to be a flight attendant.
 
Originally Posted By: Astro14
.... morons .....


Good grief.

I remember when it was bad manners not to wear a coat and tie when on a commercial flight. It doesn't seem that long ago.

edit: But at least you didn't have that Hilton kid on your plane.
 
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The traveling public needs to understand that the guys sitting in the front of a CRJ-200 are just as important to the safe conduct of their flight as are the guys sitting in the front of the 767 that'll take them to Europe.
Maybe more so, since the guys flying long legs will have plenty of time to rest their minds while monitoring the progress of the flight.
Guys flying regional aircaft get to make landings in what are often awful weather conditions all day long.
Underpaid regional crews are put in the awkward position of taking a job that may be based far from home and may well turn out to be temporary anyway, depending upon how long their carrier keeps its contracts with the majors.
He won't have enough income to move his family and can't count on any job security either.
His solution is to commute.
I challenge anyone to get any restful sleep in the back of any aircraft, or a jumpseat.
As a consequence, these pilots often start their duty days fatigued.
The regionals as a whole have an excellent safety record, which is a tribute to the professionalism of their underpaid pilots.
The traveling public needs to wake up and realize that they can end up just as dead in a regional accident as they can in one involving an aircraft operated by one of the majors, so they should be willing and even anxious to pay fares that allow regional pilots to be treated like the professional ATPs that they are.
Part of the plight of regional pilots and FAs is the fault of the traveling public, although it's always funny to hear the tales of those who flew one of the dirt-cheap carriers after they learn at the airport of the high cost of failing to read the fine print when they booked.
Pretty eye-opening to find out that your carry-on will cost you sixty dollars as will your checked bag, with a weight limit of only forty pounds for checked bags. Guess they should have either pre-paid for bags or maybe booked with a real airline.
 
My dad took his flying 'lessons' in 1940 and soloed two days later. My first memory of flying was 1953 with a NWA Stratocruiser. In the military and later with Honeywell=unaccountable with all kinds of A/C. I absolutely hate flying as a passenger in most situations now and if I can't get there driving probably won't go. Yes, the 'regional flights' were generally the worst. Sad to see the state of affairs now.
 
fdcg27,

Passengers only want low cost airline tickets. They really don't care what it takes to fly dirt cheap.

I'll be more willing to drive 12-15 hours non stop than get on a plane and deal with the TSA and headaches of air travel.
 
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