BATFE Proposing to ban M855 ammo.

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Originally Posted By: Claud
I have, and I will read it again to refresh my memory.

I guess it's a culture thing, in SwiTzerland, where possession of firearms is compulsory for most adult males, very few Swiss citizens shoot each other or wildlife.

Claud.


As a society we are unwilling to accept the root cause of any crime.
 
Originally Posted By: Claud
Why shouldn't they, the NRA twists the constitution to suit their own agenda until it is something the founding fathers wouldn't recognise.

Claud.
Which Constitution are you referring to?
 
NRA works with Rep. Bob Goodlatte,

Quote:
Wednesday night, Rep. Bob Goodlatte, the Republican chairman of the House Judiciary Committee, stepped in with a critical letter to the bureau demanding it explain the surprise and abrupt bullet ban.

The National Rifle Association, which is working with Goodlatte to gather co-signers, said that 30 House members have already co-signed the letter and Goodlatte and the NRA are hoping to get a total of 100 fast. - LINK - http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/02/...intcmp=trending
 
Originally Posted By: Claud
I have, and I will read it again to refresh my memory.

I guess it's a culture thing, in SwiTzerland, where possession of firearms is compulsory for most adult males, very few Swiss citizens shoot each other or wildlife.


Switzerland's citizen army that is armed and ready and can be called up at a moments notice is practically similar to the entire intent of the 2nd amendment, is it not? The same policies that have kept Switzerland from being invaded by a foreign force in hundreds and hundreds of years?

You can talk smack all you want about the 2nd amendment, but similar policies in your country prevented you from growing up speaking German.

Here's some Swiss history for you:

When Hitler came to power in 1933, the Swiss feared an invasion and began military preparations like no other European nation. On Hitler's 1938 "Anchluss" or annexation of Austria, the Swiss Parliament declared that the Swiss were prepared to defend themselves "to the last drop of their blood."

When the Fuehrer attacked Poland in 1939, Swiss General Guisan ordered the citizen army to resist any attack to the last cartridge. After Denmark and Norway fell in 1940, Guisan and the Federal Council gave the order to the populace: Aggressively attack invaders; act on your own initiative; regard any surrender broadcast or announcement as enemy propaganda; resist to the end. This was published as a message to the Swiss and a warning to the Germans; surrender was impossible, even if ordered by the government, for the prior order mandated that any "surrender" be treated as an enemy lie.
 
Hitler was smart to avoid that death trap. A well armed populous would be a nightmare to contend with. A rifle sticking out of every window.
 
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This is just another attempt to achieve gun control when it comes to AR-15 rifles. It is kind of a sneaky, backdoor way of achieving that.

I don't think they can stop us from getting a 30-06-yet.
 
The fact is that during WW2, the well armed civilian population was one great deterrent against any Japanese plans to actually come ashore in the continental United States. We were ill prepared militarily for the war in terms of the U.S. Army and yet there would "Be a rifle barrel behind every blade of grass". Made invasion or attack a non starter.

Also, knowing that the civilians might be the last line of defense against a German invasion in 1940 and 1941, the U.K. BEGGED for America to send guns, and we did. Not just for the British Army under Lend-Lease but many civilian guns were sent as well to arm the people. Luckily the superiority of the British Navy was enough of a deterrent and the Germans tried to win from the air instead.
 
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The few years before WW2, during the development of the M1 Garand, one of the main reasons the .30-06 was retained over the .276 Pedersen was the ability to penetrate light armor at range. The doctrine and expectation was that black-tipped M2 AP would be the standard issue round on the battle field. Of course M2 AP couldn't be made fast enough and regular "training" M2 Ball was issued as well but AP ammo was widely available in theater. Contrasting to today where I have never seen M995 (5.56x45 AP ammo) issued or even evidenced in training. If the ATF was honest then M855 would not even be an issue, it is simply not AP ammo by any existing definition under the law. If it was then why is M995 AP an option? I think this is a way of driving up the price of other 5.56 as well as getting ahead of M855A1 by precluding its sale to civilians under the same rules they would have for M855. M855A1 is not AP either by design or construction but does provide enhanced barrier penetration compared to M855.
 
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Well, here comes the executive order. Certain people will do anything to try to stop people from owning guns. They will take advantage of any chance they get to try to stop people from owning guns-this is an attempt to stop people from owning AR-15s. Without the ammunition the rifle is obviously useless.

If they could they would make handguns, shotguns, rifles, and all ammunition illegal to all citizens.

Except of course for the criminals (who would not follow the laws and would conceal weapons somewhere) and the drug cartels and the terrorists.

I am sick and tired of the agendas. Vote them out of office.
 
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Well they also kept the 30-06 because it was the era of the Great Depression and we had MILLIONS of rounds of 30-06 on hand. It was cheaper to keep the old round.


That was a claimed benefit but for most of the development of the semi-automatic rifles that were submitted for testing to be adopted as the new GI rifle the .30-06 was simply too powerful and for a while it was very questionable if ANY semi-auto infantry rifle could be designed that could reliably fire .30-06 and still meet all the weight, size, and simplicity requirements of the War Department. The .276 Pedersen made nastier wounds out to 500 yards, was more accurate, could be used in lighter, simpler rifles, and was much cheaper from logistical and manufacturing standpoints. Its main issues were performance beyond 500 yards and the fact the most promising rifles using it needed the ammunition to be waxed in order to be functional. Still, if it wasn't for General MacArthur's singular requirement that a semi-auto infantry rifle be developed that chambered .30-06, the Army would have most likely chosen the .276.
 
Originally Posted By: BlownF150
Quote:
Well they also kept the 30-06 because it was the era of the Great Depression and we had MILLIONS of rounds of 30-06 on hand. It was cheaper to keep the old round.


That was a claimed benefit but for most of the development of the semi-automatic rifles that were submitted for testing to be adopted as the new GI rifle the .30-06 was simply too powerful and for a while it was very questionable if ANY semi-auto infantry rifle could be designed that could reliably fire .30-06 and still meet all the weight, size, and simplicity requirements of the War Department. The .276 Pedersen made nastier wounds out to 500 yards, was more accurate, could be used in lighter, simpler rifles, and was much cheaper from logistical and manufacturing standpoints. Its main issues were performance beyond 500 yards and the fact the most promising rifles using it needed the ammunition to be waxed in order to be functional. Still, if it wasn't for General MacArthur's singular requirement that a semi-auto infantry rifle be developed that chambered .30-06, the Army would have most likely chosen the .276.


Very true on all points. MacArthur himself used the economy angle as his chief reason to keep the old round though and it meshed nicely with the shift from gunboat diplomacy to "good neighbor" policy which was also done due to the tanking of the economy.

The Pedersen rifle did indeed need waxed cartridges, which is why the Brits passed on the rifle also. Too bad he did not think of the fluted chamber, which would have fixed the issues with the toggle locking mechanism and extraction.
 
The ATF facebook page posted the M855 ban proposal here: https://www.facebook.com/HQATF/posts/1608327346045802

Great quote here:

Quote:
"I did write you guys but I will say it again here.

As a Police Officer in a large city it is very rare for us to encounter a AR-15 style rifle or pistol used in the commission of a crime, let alone against us. Stop using law enforcement as a pawn and excuse for taking actions like this. Criminals are the problem, and they will disregard the law anyway. Lets be straight with all this, these moves are politically motivated. You guys have the stats, you know the number of crimes that so called "assault weapons" are used in. I'm more worried about the next criminal killing me with a Glock then a AR or AK. Legal law abiding citizens shooting some cheap green tip in their yards, at the range, or chambered for self defense are NOT the problem!" - Joe Shook
 
^^^ The Feds don't want Joe Citizen to have AR-15 type weapons, because it would be easier to take total control over Joe Citizen someday when he doesn't have military level weaponry. It's just another step in boiling the frog slowly.
 
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
^^^ The Feds don't want Joe Citizen to have AR-15 type weapons, because it would be easier to take total control over Joe Citizen someday when he doesn't have military level weaponry. It's just another step in boiling the frog slowly.


Take the low hanging fruit....and if there is not commotion, they know they can go after bigger targets.

First they came for 7n6 5.45x39mm. It was cheap, but it was imported and less shooters used it. No one raised a huge stink. So using the same logic they are now testing it against more popular ammo used by a wider segment of shooters. If it works...they will go further up the ladder with these executive bans and continue to re interpret old legislation to do so.
 
Originally Posted By: Astro14
Already wrote my Representative in Congress.

And bought a few rounds, just in case.


Yep! Same here. Wrote my representatives, the ATF, and my local Mom and Pop sporting goods store had a bunch of XM855 at pre-panic prices. I wouldn't pay panic pricing for it.
 
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