6.0 Powerstroke Question

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I recently had an issue with stiction. Smoked and ran like [censored] for first five minutes no matter what the outside temp. Then when you got it out on the road it jumped and bucked until it got to almost full operating temp. Ran T6 last OCI and currently have Delo Syn. 5w40 in it now. Back to the question... I added 16oz of Archoil and it completely 100% fixed my cold start issue in two days. So if I run the archoil, can I get away with running regular 15w40diesel oil? I mean $80 for oil and $40 for archoil plus filter gets expensive... Plus it doesn't look like the syn is doing me any favors anyways..thoughts???
 
Scott I think in GA with the Archoil AR9100 and a 15W-40 diesel rated motor oil you would be better off than just a synthetic diesel oil in 6.0 or 7.3L Ford diesel.

I stay with Rotella T6 in case I want to use start the old diesel tractors in freezing temps and in the big block gas engines.

You do not want to use a PAO (Group IV) synthetic motor oil to get the fastest cleaning results out of AR9100 (Group V) oils or the best coating with the nano technology based on what I was reading a couple days ago which I mentioned in another thread on this same subject this evening.

Rotella 5W-40 is NOT a PAO based synthetic motor oil so it will not fight with AR9100 or just a cleaner only like Auto Rx or AR2300.

For stuff I get changed at Minute Lube I have moved to the MotorCraft semi synthetic blend plus 1.12 oz of AR9100 per quart of motor oil. I feel it should be much better for our older engines than even a high end synthetic motor oil alone.

PAO based motor oils is OK but it retards the results of Group V products like Auto Rx and Archoil AR2300/AR9100 products based on warning by both companies.
 
How old are the battery's? If the battery's are weak then that will slowly kill the ficm. Which in turn will make the injectors lazy. Something else to consider If they are not weak and the ficm is not going bad. Try any 10-30 diesel oil. Look around and tons of results to prove that thicker is not better.

Lots of 6.0 owners have had fantastic results with the thinner lube. Research it, try it that would help your issue and is a lot cheaper. $45 for oil + filter... something to consider.
 
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Every 6.0 is different... but stiction in and of itself is typically the result of other issues along the way. Failing batteries, failing FICM, too thick of lube, injector wear, etc etc etc. For example... I am currently running M1 Turbo Diesel 5w40. It gets down into the 30's overnight here in Southern Oregon. I let my glow plugs warm up for about 30 seconds before starting my truck and it will kind of "grenade" to life for maybe 3 seconds, but then it smooths out completely. No stiction of any kind. I replaced my FICM as soon as I saw consistent lower voltages. It should be over 47.5v at ALL times (cold mornings, hot days, etc). If it ever dips lower (even down to 45v), it's failing and will slowly kill your injectors along with it. My current FICM is a rebuilt, but upgraded, 48v model with better internals... I NEVER see under 48v, and more regularly 48.5v. Also replaced my batteries the second they showed signs of wear. I also agree with the 10w30 recommendation in general and my next change will be with Rotella T5 10w30. CAT runs a HEUI injection system in some of their equipment like the 6.0L does... they spec a 10w30 from the factory due to the high shearing effects that are put on the 40-weights as well as cold start-up issues that can develop from the HPOP.

OH - And all Archoil is from what I've seen is a Potassium-Borate mixture (much like Rev-X and Hot-Shots-Secrect). Some people swear that the high Boron levels help lube the internals of our injectors. I've never used the stuff, but many folks swear by it. You could certainly experiment with it and a 15w40 to answer your question... it shouldn't hurt anything. But I'd still be more curious into using the 10w30 lubes and seeing if they have a positive impact on your reported stiction.
 
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I concunr with the assessments regarding stichion and FICM; too many folks confuse one for the other.

It's been a while since I've studied the start-up ops for the 6.0L. Does it have an intake grid heater? I know it has glow plugs. Anyone have any idea how long the plugs/heater are "on"?

This is why I ask ...
My Dmax (understandably and admittedly a different engine) uses both glow plugs and intake heater. The plugs and the intake heater grid will stay on for perhaps a couple of minutes after cycle start. During that heater time, my voltage will drop down to about 12v supply because the grid and plugs are eating voltage and amps like crazy. When the heat assistance shuts off, the volts immediately jump up to around 14.5v, and the dash and driving lights will become "brighter" to a small degree.

The reason I mention this is because if there is a major amp/volt draw in the 6.0L PSD system during that first minute or two, then the FICM is not getting it's full supply voltage. As I understand it, the FICM can compensate a small amount, but it may not be able to fully compensate for the loss of input supply. I have always heard that the 6.0L FICM is dependent upon very strong batteries and alternator to operate at full efficiency. The output of the FICM is dependent upon the input of power from the batteries. The FICM is a glorified high-tech transformer/distribution system that controls all aspects of the injection events (timing, pulse width, etc). In short, consider it this way; garbage in - garbage out. Poor vehicle supply voltage will result in poor FICM output. I am not an expert on the HEUI system, but the various reports I've read from knowledgeable sources lead me to these conclusions.

And I've seen just such an example in the 6.0L of a friend. He allowed his old batteries to drag down the FICM and it was damaged, and even after replacing the batteries, the FICM was still slow and the injectors were "lazy". He complained about the truck not having the same power as when it was "new", and a loss of fuel efficiency. But he never replaced the FICM like I encouraged him to do. Eventually he got rid of the truck. After suffering nearly every other 6.0L issue (related to the EGR/oil cooler), he finally cried "uncle" and got rid of it. It's a shame because after spending so much money on the other fixes, he only needed to do the FICM and he'd been back to full power.

I had convinced him to run 10w-30 HDEO (Rotella TP) and his UOAs were excellent. The thinner lube also help reduce the "romp" effect on cold mornings. But thinner oil cannot compensate for a poor injection control system that has been compromised via negligence.

It's not that I really believe the 6.0L is "high maintenance", but perhaps more accurately described as "maintenance sensitive". You cannot let the little things degrade over time as the HEUI system is just too susceptible.

Using a PAO and aftermarket additive may off-set the FICM being degraded to some degree, but they probably cannot fully restore the loss of performance from voltage drop in the FICM. It may seem "better" after installing a PAO/additive, but it also may not be fully "right" until the source of the issue is fixed. I see the PAO/additive as a crutch; it doesn't fix anything but can help compensate until root cause is addressed.
 
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Dave,

The 6.0 doesn't have a grid-heater, only glow plugs and the duration is 90-120 sec. Your assessments above are correct as I remember them regarding the 6.0.
One thing Ford could have done is equip all of the 6.0's with an HO alternator, instead it was only an option, which both of my 6.0's had. The standard alternator wasn't capable of continuous cold start/short drive duty which resulted in many FICM failures.

I had always noticed the increase in light output after the glow plugs cycled off also.
 
Yep, what Roadrunner said. When my 6.0L starts, the glow plugs cycle for around 90 seconds... during which time the engine doesn't draw from the alternator and the voltage hovers around 12v. You'll hear the draw kick in once the plugs turn off and then the voltage goes up to its normal 14v. Many 6.0L guys will run a bypass line from the alternator post to the battery to compensate and force the alternator to turn on immediately. Ford's reasoning to not draw immediately? To Roadrunner's point, they only equipped a 110-amp alternator as standard (except on certain specialty packages)
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and they didn't want to "put too much strain on it upon startup". It's essentially the same alternator they put in their Ford Fusion. Heaven forbid they put an appropriately powered alternator in from the factory. The sad part? The higher-output version, which is 140-amp, is a completely bolt-on part without any modifications needed. My truck would only put out around 12.8v-13v when the headlights, deck lights, and foglights were turned on. If I hitched up the trailer for towing... well, you can see where this is going. Naturally I picked up a 140-amp model in a hurry (brand new NOT rebuilt Bosch for $130) and solved the problem. Kept my old alternator for an eventual rebuild.

Again, the 6.0L isn't a horrible truck - Ford just made some "bean counter" decisions that could really wreak havoc. Fix those issues as early as possible and you have yourself a really good rig.
 
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Originally Posted By: dnewton3
I concunr with the assessments regarding stichion and FICM; too many folks confuse one for the other.

The reason I mention this is because if there is a major amp/volt draw in the 6.0L PSD system during that first minute or two, then the FICM is not getting it's full supply voltage. As I understand it, the FICM can compensate a small amount, but it may not be able to fully compensate for the loss of input supply. I have always heard that the 6.0L FICM is dependent upon very strong batteries and alternator to operate at full efficiency. The output of the FICM is dependent upon the input of power from the batteries. The FICM is a glorified high-tech transformer/distribution system that controls all aspects of the injection events (timing, pulse width, etc). In short, consider it this way; garbage in - garbage out. Poor vehicle supply voltage will result in poor FICM output. I am not an expert on the HEUI system, but the various reports I've read from knowledgeable sources lead me to these conclusions.

And I've seen just such an example in the 6.0L of a friend. He allowed his old batteries to drag down the FICM and it was damaged, and even after replacing the batteries, the FICM was still slow and the injectors were "lazy". He complained about the truck not having the same power as when it was "new", and a loss of fuel efficiency. But he never replaced the FICM like I encouraged him to do. Eventually he got rid of the truck. After suffering nearly every other 6.0L issue (related to the EGR/oil cooler), he finally cried "uncle" and got rid of it. It's a shame because after spending so much money on the other fixes, he only needed to do the FICM and he'd been back to full power.

I had convinced him to run 10w-30 HDEO (Rotella TP) and his UOAs were excellent. The thinner lube also help reduce the "romp" effect on cold mornings. But thinner oil cannot compensate for a poor injection control system that has been compromised via negligence.


It's not that I really believe the 6.0L is "high maintenance", but perhaps more accurately described as "maintenance sensitive". You cannot let the little things degrade over time as the HEUI system is just too susceptible.



^yup

I would follow the FICM (and run 10w30). The PSD sheers oil down anyway but my two buses are "maintenance sensitive" and it was not a lot of fun walking in after a guy was doing his gas-and-go routine.
 
Originally Posted By: 4Scott4
I recently had an issue with stiction. Smoked and ran like [censored] for first five minutes no matter what the outside temp. Then when you got it out on the road it jumped and bucked until it got to almost full operating temp. Ran T6 last OCI and currently have Delo Syn. 5w40 in it now. Back to the question... I added 16oz of Archoil and it completely 100% fixed my cold start issue in two days. So if I run the archoil, can I get away with running regular 15w40diesel oil? I mean $80 for oil and $40 for archoil plus filter gets expensive... Plus it doesn't look like the syn is doing me any favors anyways..thoughts???


4Scott4,

Our service manuals shows that the Shell Rotella T Triple Protection 15W40 meets the Ford diesel spec WSS-M2C171-B that your 2005 F-250 Lariat 4x4 6.0 Powerstroke Diesel Engine requires. However, if you are worried about cold weather operation, you could try the Rotella T6 5W40 full synthetic product, which also meets the Ford specification called for by your engine. There should be no problems switching back 15W40, if that’s what you choose to do.

-The Shell Rotella Team
 
Chris -
In addition to those two products, do the others such as 10w-30 TP and T5 also meet the spec? It seems to me that Ford spec is pretty broad in terms of what grade and base stocks would suffice. I personally do not own a direct copy of the spec, but after research in various resources it appears that most any decent CJ-4 lube of various grades (10w-30, 10w-40, 5w-40, 15w-40) would be applicable.
5w-40: https://www.fcsdchemicalsandlubricants.c...ory=Motor%20Oil
15w-40: https://www.fcsdchemicalsandlubricants.c...ory=Motor%20Oil
10w-30: https://www.fcsdchemicalsandlubricants.c...ory=Motor%20Oil
0w-40: https://www.fcsdchemicalsandlubricants.c...ory=Motor%20Oil
All are mentioned to the same diesel spec. Some are compliant with "S" series (spark) designations; some are not. Perhaps they got sloppy with a copy/paste error, or is the spec just so wide that many products will meet them?

Also, it may be a typo on your part, but these lubes above are to series "E" and not "B" in the suffix. Which do you believe to be correct?
Per this link, applicable at the time of printing (2005) for the OPs truck, page 50:
http://www.fordservicecontent.com/Ford_Content/catalog/owner_guides/0560l6d3e.pdf
The spec back then was to level "D". Now, it's "E" (for CJ-4). Where did you get "B" from? Or was that just a mistake?
Also see pages 36, 38; seems that the spec back in 2005,"D", was able to be met with CI-4. Even CH-4 was OK back in 2005.




In short, would not just about any product you offer for CJ-4 application be worthy of meeting the current "E" Ford spec, (because their own products range in base stock and grade over such a wide margin), and therefor be backwards compatible with his 2005 PSD?
 
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