Motorcraft 820-s Oil Filter Failures? Fram Ultra?

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Here's the image tags fixed so the other photo also shows up.

The holes do look smaller on the Fram, but there are a few more. I highly doubt there is any real resistance caused by the 8 smaller holes in the Fram.

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Originally Posted By: crazyoildude
thank you zeeOsix ! Like i said first time here...
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Good job
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If you go quote my last post and look at the lines with the photo info, you can see that each photo needs the tag
after the address.
 
Originally Posted By: crazyoildude
I will see what i think when i install it and run it for however long take it off and cut both of them opened but i have no reason to not believe him he knows much more about his oil filters than i do. This is the first ultra i ever bought. In a matter of fact this is the first fram i ever considered since joining bitog in 08
Can't help but notice those oil holes on the motorcraft look much bigger all around.

Here are the calculations (I just happen to have a few 820s and XG2s laying around
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Originally Posted By: crazyoildude
so in your opinion which one flows better?

Baseplate to baseplate, the MC has the potential to flow more, but the question is, does the oil pump put out more than the baseplate can handle? If not, (and I suspect that to be the case), then it is a moot point. Would the difference cause me to stop using the FRAM Ultra? No; the MCs no longer serve my OCIs, I do not want to swap filters mid-OCI, and I trust there is engineering behind both of these products. The opposite condition exists between the FL-500s and the XG10575.
 
forget the oil pump lets just ask ourselves which filter flows faster i thought the motorcraft pretty much hands down but don't forget the ultra has synthetic media that may account for something.
 
Originally Posted By: crazyoildude
forget the oil pump lets just ask ourselves which filter flows faster i thought the motorcraft pretty much hands down but don't forget the ultra has synthetic media that may account for something.

IMHO, the synthetic filter flows faster.
 
The flow rate for the FL-820s is 11-13gpm according to Ford. The flow rate for the Wix 51372 and 51372XP is 11-13gpm which has smaller inlet holes. The Mobil 1 M1-210, with even smaller holes, is 13.5 gpm.

The flow rate for the Motorcraft FL-400s is 7-9gpm. The Wix 51315 and 51315XP are also rated at 7-9gpm. The Mobil 1 M1-211 also has smaller holes and has a flow rate of 12gpm.

I contacted Fram about their flow rates, but all they would tell me is that they exceed the minimum requirement.

I also thought the Wix XP filters were supposed to have a better flow rate, and that's why they had a lower micron rating. But according to their site they are the same as the standard filter.

I think it is more about the type of media and how much of it there is.
 
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Inlet hole area makes no difference if their max flow equals the outlet hole. And the outlet hole is NOT the size of the hole on the filter, it is the size of the hole inside the mounting flange on the filter mount, so about half the size of the filter outlet hole...
 
I will try contacting fram by e mail also to see what their flow is rated at and how exactly they rate them. So far motorcraft is looking better to me if fram gives me the same answer as they gave you. I just hope the tearing media situation in the purolater is going to be fixed soon i always liked the motorcraft filter for the fords we work on and my own also. Im a little leery of the ultra flow rates but will be using the one i bought soon and will report back to bitog with my findings i will run it 4000 miles unless i see a noticable problem with the flow by both mechanical oil gauge and engine startup sound. This will be with the 5w20 im pretty sure the 5w30 would be a little worse.
 
Originally Posted By: Stewie
Has there ever been an ultra failure? (NOT talking about purolator
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Everytime I ask this I get crickets
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What kind of automobile oil filter stud has a 21mm hole in it? 16mm is more like it, or possibly smaller, depending on the wall thickness. That gives 200mm sq. outlet area.
On the much smaller Fram filter, the XG4967, the inlet holes are considerably larger and there are ten holes, more and bigger than on the XG3614. I don't know why they do that. There couldn't be more and bigger inlet holes in that XG4967 baseplate of that size.
The fram holes look oval shaped. I would say the Fram base inlet holes equal the outlet tube ID area on the models with 8 smaller holes, and exceed the outlet tube ID area on the models with ten holes.
 
Originally Posted By: geeman789
Inlet hole area makes no difference if their max flow equals the outlet hole. And the outlet hole is NOT the size of the hole on the filter, it is the size of the hole inside the mounting flange on the filter mount, so about half the size of the filter outlet hole...

True--however, the delta would remain the same between the two filters no matter what the inlet nozzle is. The next time I change the oil, I plan to measure the ID of the inlet nozzle and recalculate the numbers.
 
Originally Posted By: goodtimes
What kind of automobile oil filter stud has a 21mm hole in it? 16mm is more like it, or possibly smaller, depending on the wall thickness. That gives 200mm sq. outlet area.

The measurement was of the OD of the hole in the base plate (not the ID of the block nozzle) and was done to show the absolute flow numbers. I plan to measure the ID of the block nozzle on my next OCI, but as I stated above, the delta would be the same no matter what the ID of the block nozzle is.
 
Originally Posted By: Stewie
Originally Posted By: Stewie
Has there ever been an ultra failure? (NOT talking about purolator
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Everytime I ask this I get crickets
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There were two FRAM Ultra failures I remember seeing:

One sounded like the leaf spring was loose in the filter (due to a drop or manufacturing error (Fram Ultra Spin-On). The OP sent it back to FRAM and received 6 new Ultra filters in its place (scroll down about halfway to see the photos).

The other was a BMW Ultra Cartridge Failure, the OP returned the filter, FRAM asked for proof of purchase and it seems to have died at that point.
 
Originally Posted By: 2010_FX4
Originally Posted By: Stewie
Originally Posted By: Stewie
Has there ever been an ultra failure? (NOT talking about purolator
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)

Everytime I ask this I get crickets
whistle.gif


There were two FRAM Ultra failures I remember seeing:

One sounded like the leaf spring was loose in the filter (due to a drop or manufacturing error (Fram Ultra Spin-On). The OP sent it back to FRAM and received 6 new Ultra filters in its place (scroll down about halfway to see the photos).

The other was a BMW Ultra Cartridge Failure, the OP returned the filter, FRAM asked for proof of purchase and it seems to have died at that point.


At least they did something.

IMO cartridge filters don't count
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but how can you tell a filter is bad without cutting it open, Fram not very smart lol
 
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Originally Posted By: Stewie
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but how can you tell a filter is bad without cutting it open, Fram not very smart lol

I assume that FRAM did cut it open since the OP of the spin-on sent it back to them?
 
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