whats the scoop on mufflers

[kschachn]

Same on both my Toyotas, although I did have a small hole welded on the ECHO a while back. And that's here in Milwaukee.

Originally Posted By: mjk
My exhaust system (minus flexpipe) is still original on my 1996 toyota camry with 244k. Its entire life has been spent in MN, to boot.

 

[tommygunn]

The Walker Quiet Flow is now stainless steel (409). Many of their Dynomax mufflers are also stainless.

Magnaflow uses 409 as well.

I had an AP Exhaust MSL Maximum muffler installed 2 months ago, but sadly the car got hit so no long-term report on it. That muffler is aluminized.

Also, you can find black coated mufflers on eBay. I'm considering that next time I need exhaust work. Hopefully it can deter rust.

 

[Gokhan]

Get OEM muffler. They not only last forever but if you get an aftermarket muffler, they will have to cut and ruin your exhaust pipe, as the aftermarket muffler can only be welded on. That could lead to galvanic corrosion as well. Exhaust pipes are a lot more expensive and not worth ruining. Also, aftermarket mufflers may not satisfy the noise and/or flow specs.

 

[tommygunn]

@Gokhan, they have direct-fit aftermarket mufflers that are simple bolt-on.

 

[Wolf359]

Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Get OEM muffler. They not only last forever but if you get an aftermarket muffler, they will have to cut and ruin your exhaust pipe, as the aftermarket muffler can only be welded on. That could lead to galvanic corrosion as well. Exhaust pipes are a lot more expensive and not worth ruining. Also, aftermarket mufflers may not satisfy the noise and/or flow specs.


OEM mufflers last forever so you should get them as replacements? If they last forever you wouldn't need to get a replacement right? And yes with aftermarket ones like a Walker, you can just use a clamp instead of welding it.

 

[eljefino]

OE factory mufflers are welded on but the replacement has a slip fit, and there's a pretty obvious place to sawzall/ torch to get the old off and new on.

If your stars align, a clamp will work. Many like to weld for security. Muffler cement slathered over the mating surfaces will keep leaks down.

Replacing the replacement will need reaming out the dent in the pipe from the clamp, cutting 1/2 inch further up the pipe if welded, or putting on a short length of "innie-outie" slip fit adapter pipe. But that's way down the road.

 

[Gokhan]

However, after checking the list price for a single 2005 Camry OEM muffler -- $407.07 + tax -- perhaps it's better to get an aftermarket one.

Guess the list price for the OEM California-spec front exhaust pipe with built-in catalytic converter: $2253.31 + tax.

http://www.toyomotorparts.com/

 

[dailydriver]

Originally Posted By: HangFire
I agree with Steve, a good pipe guy is an artist, and well worth the money.


ABSOLUTELY!

But one who will work with 304 stainless makes the proverbial 'hens teeth' seem commonplace.

(I am guessing due to the unfathomable cost of stainless capable mandrel benders, and the higher cost of stainless weld rod.

)

 

[Lubener]

If you will be keeping the car long, go for stainless. Anything else will only last a couple years in the salt.Walkers have been short lived for me and I try to avoid their stuff.

 

[Gokhan]

List price for my Toyota OEM "cold-spec" muffler is $142.83 + tax, well worth the money. So, you may want to check the OEM price first and go with it if it's reasonable.

I guess Toyota cold-spec mufflers are made from better materials, able to hand corrosive elements.

I did have that OEM cold-spec muffler installed about fifteen years ago and it's still as good as new. However, it has hardly seen cold weather.

 

[Kestas]

It's been 15 years since I've been involved with helping the automakers with exhaust design. Back then the trend was for American automakers to switch the 409 stainless steel. The Japanese automakers were already using 300-series stainless steel, which is superior to 409. 409 ss has the bare minimum of Cr to make the material corrosion resistant.

One way tell which you have is to use a magnet. The magnet will attract 409 ss (and the familiar aluminized steel), but not 300-series stainless.

Recently, there's been a breakthrough in titanium production, which now makes the raw material cheaper than before. I understand Ti is superior to stainless steel for corrosion and weight in automotive exhaust systems. Corvette is showcasing this technology.

I was also involved with flex coupling post-test analysis after corrosion testing. I'm not sure how they fare in real life, but they suffered horribly because the braided outer cover acted as a poultice for corroding the bellows. The bellows suffer from corrosion-assisted fatigue, even on an Inconel outer layer, which is superior to 300-series stainless for hot corrosion.

 

[edwardh1]

Originally Posted By: Gokhan
List price for my Toyota OEM "cold-spec" muffler is $142.83 + tax, well worth the money. So, you may want to check the OEM price first and go with it if it's reasonable.

I guess Toyota cold-spec mufflers are made from better materials, able to hand corrosive elements.

I did have that OEM cold-spec muffler installed about fifteen years ago and it's still as good as new. However, it has hardly seen cold weather.


what does cold spec mean???

 

[Mykl]

Originally Posted By: edwardh1
what does cold spec mean???


If I were to guess I'd think it would have something to do with use of materials that can better deal with all the crud we dump on roads to fight snow and ice in cold weather.

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted By: Mykl
Originally Posted By: edwardh1
what does cold spec mean???


If I were to guess I'd think it would have something to do with use of materials that can better deal with all the crud we dump on roads to fight snow and ice in cold weather.

No one knows what Toyota means by "COLD SPEC" for some of their mufflers but that has been my guess too -- better (more corrosion-resistant, thicker) materials.

See part 17430. Toyota has discontinued the regular variety and makes only the COLD SPEC variety for this car now:

Toyota exhaust 1985

 

[dailydriver]

Originally Posted By: Kestas
Recently, there's been a breakthrough in titanium production, which now makes the raw material cheaper than before. I understand Ti is superior to stainless steel for corrosion and weight in automotive exhaust systems. Corvette is showcasing this technology.


Yes, the problem (and most of the CO$T) with titanium exhaust systems is not the price of the raw material, but the cost of labor due to the complicated process needed to WELD titanium together.

Originally Posted By: Kestas
The bellows suffer from corrosion-assisted fatigue, even on an Inconel outer layer, which is superior to 300-series stainless for hot corrosion.


What manufacturer could/would ever go for the exorbitant coin which Inconel runs for something as pedestrian as a flex coupling??

I can see some of the $250 K and up exotics using Inconel for their exhaust systems, but not anything mass produced.

 

[CharBaby]

I have a Walker Quiet-Flow SS on both the RX-300 & Altima in my sig.
I like the Walker QF/SS on the Altima as it is like OE but[BUT], DO NOT like it on the RX-300. Not even close to OE.

But on the Lexus, the Walker was $120 shipped/my install(after the Walker rebate), compared to the OE @ $600($500 shipped/my cost/my install)...and the Walker lifetime warranty, I could't go wrong. The Lexus OE is waaaaaaaaay BIGGER. better looking and waaaaaaay quieter...WAAAAAAAY!

But, ^^^ not($500) on a 14 year old Lexus...ju$t for the muffler!

I also needed & bought a Walker downstream Cat/Res assembly and Flex Pipe. The OE would have cost me for everything...over $2000 just for those 3 pieces(w/o gaskets). With my own install! WENT TO RA!

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: Gokhan
However, after checking the list price for a single 2005 Camry OEM muffler -- $407.07 + tax -- perhaps it's better to get an aftermarket one.

Guess the list price for the OEM California-spec front exhaust pipe with built-in catalytic converter: $2253.31 + tax.

http://www.toyomotorparts.com/



Yep, the factory muffler on our 3500 vans is well over one thousand dollars! Stunningly expensive...

 

[MCompact]

Originally Posted By: Gokhan
However, after checking the list price for a single 2005 Camry OEM muffler -- $407.07 + tax -- perhaps it's better to get an aftermarket one.

Guess the list price for the OEM California-spec front exhaust pipe with built-in catalytic converter: $2253.31 + tax.

http://www.toyomotorparts.com/


Wow, that front pipe for the Camry is @$500 more than the two stainless steel exhaust manifolds (each with a built-in catalyst) for my son's X3 2.5i. I haven't needed to replace them- fortunately....