Honda Slashes US production due to shut ports

[andrewg]

Originally Posted By: Nyati
Originally Posted By: antiqueshell

The best protection you have in the workplace is a honest,
well run, Union.


There is no such thing. Unionism = socialism. Anytime you are rewarded for seniority vs quality of work is socialism.


I agree Nyati.

I don't understand why the power of the collective is celebrated by some...yet individualism is diminished or treated as having little value (a highly American virtue by the way....at least it used to be).

If an employee doesn't like the employer...plenty of alternatives exist. They may be tough choices or ones that take great effort...but in the end the INDIVIDUAL will have attained much.

 

[antiqueshell]

Originally Posted By: Nyati
Originally Posted By: antiqueshell

The best protection you have in the workplace is a honest,
well run, Union.


There is no such thing. Unionism = socialism. Anytime you are rewarded for seniority vs quality of work is socialism.


Nonsense. There are many such Unions and they are effective in
balancing the relationship between employee and employer. There are NO other options. The number of honorable employers today are
literal needles in a haystack. I don't trust them to do the right thing and they confirm my mistrust every time.

 

[whip]

Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
........ like most brass tacks they don't get "fired" they leave due to..... (fill in the blank)these execs live by different rules than the rest of us.

I know you don't like facts, but the CEO is still with Honda. Didn't get fired or leave.

 

[antiqueshell]

Originally Posted By: whip

I know you don't like facts, but the CEO is still with Honda. Didn't get fired or leave.


He won't be officially "fired" until June.

Like we all know these executives don't live by the same rules of the workplace that the rest of us do. All the more reason why belonging to a Union helps check the balance of power in the workplace.

 

[andrewg]

Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
Originally Posted By: Nyati
Originally Posted By: antiqueshell

The best protection you have in the workplace is a honest,
well run, Union.


There is no such thing. Unionism = socialism. Anytime you are rewarded for seniority vs quality of work is socialism.


Nonsense. There are many such Unions and they are effective in
balancing the relationship between employee and employer. There are NO other options. The number of honorable employers today are
literal needles in a haystack. I don't trust them to do the right thing and they confirm my mistrust every time.


Balance? Hardly.

And unions are..."honorable" then? Ha ha ha ha ha ha.

Now I've heard it all.

An employee works for an employer and in return gets compensated by being paid what BOTH parties agree to. If an employee doesn't like his/her pay or treatment....they are perfectly capable to find employment elsewhere. No need for an in-between, collectivist/socialist union to get involved.

The worker just needs to realize the key is to make yourself valuable by individually educating or learning valuable skills.

 

[dishdude]

The company has its lawyers, its HR department and its management at its disposal. Isn't it nice as an employee to have some representation?

 

[antiqueshell]

Originally Posted By: andrewg


Balance? Hardly.

And unions are..."honorable" then? Ha ha ha ha ha ha.

Now I've heard it all.

An employee works for an employer and in return gets compensated by being paid what BOTH parties agree to. If an employee doesn't like his/her pay or treatment....they are perfectly capable to find employment elsewhere. No need for an in-between, collectivist/socialist union to get involved.

The worker just needs to realize the key is to make yourself valuable by individually educating or learning valuable skills.


Did I say that ALL Unions are honorable? No.
Just like ALL Management are honorable..of course not.

Fact is that your employer doesn't give a flying fork about you, unless you are a very rare talent, but for other 99.5% you are disposable, even if you don't think you are and it doesn't matter how much training you do to make yourself worth more to the organization.

What you speak of existed decades ago, agreed, however for the past 25+ years or so that kind of paternalism in organizations is long gone.

 

[andrewg]

Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
Originally Posted By: andrewg


Balance? Hardly.

And unions are..."honorable" then? Ha ha ha ha ha ha.

Now I've heard it all.

An employee works for an employer and in return gets compensated by being paid what BOTH parties agree to. If an employee doesn't like his/her pay or treatment....they are perfectly capable to find employment elsewhere. No need for an in-between, collectivist/socialist union to get involved.

The worker just needs to realize the key is to make yourself valuable by individually educating or learning valuable skills.


Did I say that ALL Unions are honorable? No.
Just like ALL Management are honorable..of course not.

Fact is that your employer doesn't give a flying fork about you, unless you are a very rare talent, but for other 99.5% you are disposable, even if you don't think you are and it doesn't matter how much training you do to make yourself worth more to the organization.

What you speak of existed decades ago, agreed, however for the past 25+ years or so that kind of paternalism in organizations is long gone.


Simply not true. Literally thousands of non-unionized workplaces exist where employees are well compensated and treated fairly/with respect. That's one of the main reason these thug-like labor unions have almost all but evaporated. The future looks bright without them...which is EXACTLY what is going to happen.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Originally Posted By: Vern_in_IL
Originally Posted By: Nick R
http://wot.motortrend.com/1502_honda_sla...ort_delays.html


And weren't there some people saying this would somehow be GOOD for US jobs? Because Honda can instantly start manufacturing this transmission in the US Right?


Because of this debacle I have lost 40 Hrs. of work the past three weeks... I make a product that specifically goes on the Hybrid Civic.... the orders keep being pushed "back". My company is not Unionized.


Then as far as most of the union guys are concerned, you are subhuman and do not deserve to make a living.

 

[antiqueshell]

Originally Posted By: andrewg
[

Simply not true. Literally thousands of non-unionized workplaces exist where employees are well compensated and treated fairly/with respect.


Then why are the bulk of even MIDDLE CLASS salaries and compensation going DOWN or stagnant, even when overall inflation and executive compensation going up, up, up?

Quote:

That's one of the main reason these thug-like labor unions have almost all but evaporated. The future looks bright without them...which is EXACTLY what is going to happen.


The reason why Unions in the privately owned workplace have nearly disappeared is because they have shipped all the valued added jobs to China or Vietnam, where employers can get away with wage slavery and work their employees 7 days a week.

 

[antiqueshell]

Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle


Then as far as most of the union guys are concerned, you are subhuman and do not deserve to make a living.


This is exhibit one as to why employees NEED Unions in the workplace, because this is the attitude of most management.

 

[kschachn]

I doubt that most of the unionized employees at Boeing can afford a 777 either. Being able, or not being able to afford what it is that the company you work for produces is immaterial. From my experience in Mexico, the ones that had a job were much closer to being able to afford "it" (whatever it is), than those who don't have a job at all.

Oh and any employee, anywhere, that would sabotage their workplace should be fired immediately. If they actually damaged something then criminal charges should be brought for damage of personal property.

None of our employees were hungry on the job, ever. They all got a free lunch as much as they cared to eat. This is common practice throughout many of the manufacturing facilities in Mexican border towns. Go look for yourself if you don't believe it.

Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
What amazes me is that very few of the employees that work at those Mexican automotive plants can afford anything they actually build. I'm sure human nature being what it is makes them
quite jealous, which has led to sabotage on the lines, it happens quite often. But then again the workforce is very poorly educated, and due to the poverty many workers are tired, stressed and hungry on the job....outrageous. But those slaves are cheap to employ and are very subservient, which helps like the already loaded pockets of the executives and shareholders.

 

[antiqueshell]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
I doubt that most of the unionized employees at Boeing can afford a 777 either.

Slick, but no cigar.

You know exactly what I was inferring but that comment regarding Mexican workers not being able to afford one of the cars they manufacture....it relates to not earning poverty level wages and living a decent quality of live. Mexican workers at most of these plants earn poverty level wages and have no hope of ever living a middle class wage.
Quote:



Any employee, anywhere, that would do those things should be fired immediately. If they actually damaged something then criminal charges should be brought for damage of personal property.


Yes, they should, but if you work your employees like wage slaves you are going to have a huge degree of resentment. True if they don't like it at sweatshop X they can always quit and go down the road and work at sweatshop Y. That will really make a difference.

 

[kschachn]

And another thing. I've visited both our south-of-the border plants, as well as many here in the US, both union and non-union. Want to know where the disgruntled workers are at?

 

[Vern_in_IL]

Originally Posted By: antiqueshell


Unfortunately you are not unionized, if you were there would likely be a contract stipulation that would provide for still paying you some of those hours anyway.


Fortunately I am not Unionized, and I still had a choice, of "lack of work" or they would find me another line to work on.... So one Friday I took unpaid time off, the next week I put in some vacation to have Friday off, and this week I volunteered to work on another line, somebody was out for surgery.

My workplace honors seniority....and this problem was CAUSED by a Union.

 

[antiqueshell]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
And another thing. I've visited both our south-of-the border plants, as well as many here in the US, both union and non-union. Want to know where the disgruntled workers are at?


Did you read some of my other posts regarding Mexican workers?
They are VERY subservient, sure you won't see such anger
and disgruntled behavior at the surface in that country because the workers are always in fear of being fired, or even physically attacked for their complaints to management. You "visited" those plants and the management only showed you the "window dressing".

There are incidents in Mexico of relations simmering at plants like this and then boiling over in violent clashes between workers and the Mexican Nat'l Guard, a perfect example was of the violent clash at the Puebla plant back in the 90s. Many were killed. Of course our corporate crass media doesn't like to report on such things because it makes those companies look bad that pay for advertising on said media outlets in the USA.

 

[antiqueshell]

Originally Posted By: Vern_in_IL

Fortunately I am not Unionized, and I still had a choice, of "lack of work" or they would find me another line to work on.... So one Friday I took unpaid time off, the next week I put in some vacation to have Friday off, and this week I volunteered to work on another line, somebody was out for surgery.

My workplace honors seniority....and this problem was CAUSED by a Union.



Same thing happens in a Union when production is at a high level, but when things get really slow they will simply send you home without pay and you won't have a choice

FYI the market for cars and trucks is saturated now, and the manufacturers are having to give sweetheart deals to get customers to buy. Sales are only going to go down now so you're probably due to be laid off in the next year or two which for many of your coworkers could mean no pay and no benefits.

It's stunning how effectively brainwashed employees have become by their masters when it comes to what is in their own best interest.
A bit like Stockholm Syndrome.

 

[whip]

Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
FYI the market for cars and trucks is saturated now, and the manufacturers are having to give sweetheart deals to get customers to buy. Sales are only going to go down now so you're probably due to be laid off in the next year or two which for many of your coworkers could mean no pay and no benefits.

Do you have anything to back up your claim about sales going down, or is it more nonsense made up inside a tinfoil hat?

 

[antiqueshell]

Originally Posted By: whip

Do you have anything to back up your claim about sales going down, or is it more nonsense made up inside a tinfoil hat?


A lot of industry forecasters and manufacturing executives are speaking about this, Automotive News had a story about this months ago.

 

[dlundblad]

Why do I get the impression union members have a strong sense of entitlement?