Maintenance Mystery: Tranny

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So we bought a 1999 Plymouth Voyager 2.4L with 3 speed automatic about 2 years ago. It had 114,500 miles at the time. The lady said it had had a transmission fluid change and my tranny shop looked at the fluid on the stick and said it looked good.

At 122,000 miles it started slipping on acceleration. After several days of this happening I asked the tranny shop and was told it needs a new tranny. I put half a bottle Lucas Trans Fix Slip Stop and it stopped slipping. Then I decided to change the fluid, doing three syphon and refill cycles using Maxlife ATF (I know it is not listed for the Chrysler ATF4 fluid, but the Valvoline tech told me it is just that they can't list it because of some legal thing). After the Maxlife was in I added some more of the Slip Stop for good measure. No slipping problems for nearly 20,000 miles.

At 141,5000 miles it starts slipping again, and we noticed it also took several seconds to engage in drive from a cold start. this is at the depths of our cold spell with temps hovering in the single digits frequently. I decided to get a pan drop to make sure the filter is good. Shop did the pan drop, filter was not that bad, magnet had debris on it, they replaced filter and filled with semi-synthetic ATF4. I just drove it about 9 miles and it is not slipping at all.

So, what gives? Was the Maxlife ATF not up to the job? It worked fine for nearly 20,000 miles. Is the tranny somewhat worn and now hard on fluid? Did the last change (at 142,000) help get the remainder of the older fluid from when I purchased the car out? Was the Lucas stuff a bad thing in this cold weather because it made the fluid too thick? What can I expect going forward?

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So, what gives? Was the Maxlife ATF not up to the job? It worked fine for nearly 20,000 miles. Is the tranny somewhat worn and now hard on fluid? Did the last change (at 142,000) help get the remainder of the older fluid from when I purchased the car out? Was the Lucas stuff a bad thing in this cold weather because it made the fluid too thick? What can I expect going forward?

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Yes. No. Yes, yes, yes....

Stick with +4, $4.77 at WM. BTW, +4 is group III full syn. At that mileage, you should change it at 30k-40k miles. I have that trans. in a 94 with 240k on it, still works fine.
 
That tranny probably has bands that require adjusting. Check it out. Confirmed....the 31TH has adjustment bands.

I believe the '99's had a group that developed rusting strut towers. There is a TSB and repair kits available.

I have a Haynes manual for that generation. It is yours free for the asking. PM me. I'm over in Moo U territory.
 
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ATF+4 has a much different coefficient of friction than dex/merc fluids, you need to get all of the old fluid out and replace with the proper atf+4.

Any ATF+4 will do as long as it's on the certified list it's exactly the same stuff. Supertech at Walmart sells ATF+4 for the best price usually.

Refer to this link to make sure you get the correct fluid.

http://centerforqa.com/chrysler/licensed-atf4-brands
 
Originally Posted By: TallPaul
Maxlife ATF (I know it is not listed for the Chrysler ATF4 fluid, but the Valvoline tech told me it is just that they can't list it because of some legal thing).


hilarious, but i'm not surprised knowing how they lie all the time.
 
Ok, ATF+4 from now on. I don't get what is wrong with these Valvoline Techs. What do they have to gain by telling me wrong information. Good thing I put the Lucas in, it is thick and sticky.

Pan drop probably gets about half the fluid, so I need to do a couple more drain and refills to get mostly ATF+4 in it.

I do like that tranny. It is nice and simple and works very well for an automatic.

What about filling it with Redline ATF and not having to change it so often if at all?

Thanks!
 
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
Originally Posted By: TallPaul
Maxlife ATF (I know it is not listed for the Chrysler ATF4 fluid, but the Valvoline tech told me it is just that they can't list it because of some legal thing).


hilarious, but i'm not surprised knowing how they lie all the time.


One of the biggest LIES I have heard is that when someone here from
BITOG called the Valvoline consumer hotline to ask whether or not
MaxLife ATF was suitable for use in late Honda/Acura models which REQUIRE the use of the DW-1 spec, the CSR stated that it IS
suitable for use,
the only reason it wasn't stated on the bottle itself was because they didn't update the bottles and PDS yet, that was about TWO YEARS AGO, when I look at the latest bottle and
PDS for US MaxLife ATF it still does NOT claim in writing that it is suitable for those later model Hondas!

Again make sure that the product itself and the PDS state clearly that the product is suitable for use in your specific vehicle before using them.

In Chrysler vehicles that require +4 ATF use a product that specifically states in writing and on the bottle that is IS
suitable for use.
 
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Redline C+ ATF is a great replacement for ATF+4 and does contain correct friction properties you need but I wouldn't want to use it until you get a couple drain and fills in with regular ATF+4 otherwise you'd be partially draining the expensive fluid. I'd say 3 drain and fills should do the trick if you want to be thorough, but you should notice a difference with even the first drain with the correct fluid.
 
It already feels better with the first load of ATF+4.

I am not sure exactly what Valvo told me as it was 15 months ago but it seems it was a licensing thing which I guess would be a legal issue, but for whatever reason they said it was good but they could not label it as ATF+4. Seems like the quick oil change shop one-size-fits(or doesn't fit)-too-many oil filter situation. Maxlife ATF lists about everything but ATF+4. How can it possibly be that versatile?
 
ATF+4 is a licensed spec from Chrylser, and a very good spec at that. Anybody that makes a GENUINE LICENSED ATF+4 is making a really good ATF by definition.

Nothing against MaxLife but it's just not the same stuff, different characteristics than ATF+4.

Choose from here and you're good, be careful of "meets or exceeds ATF+4" on the back, that just means it's not really ATF+4.

http://centerforqa.com/chrysler/licensed-atf4-brands
 
Well I would like to do the Redline ATF but only if I can extend the drain interval. Guess the car will tell me when it is ready to change out by starting to slip?????
 
Originally Posted By: TallPaul
it seems it was a licensing thing which I guess would be a legal issue, but for whatever reason they said it was good but they could not label it as ATF+4.
Exactly. Valvoline doesn't want to pay for ATF+4 certification so they can't legally use the words "ATF+4" on the bottle.

It's the same thing with their Mercon V offering. They don't want to license it, so they have to call it "ATF for Mercon V Applications".

I won't buy Valvoline products any more.
 
Maxlife isn't suitable for ATF+4 applications because the coefficient of friction is much different than Mercon and Dexron. Any fluid that claims to meet both ATF+4 with any version of Dexron/Mercon on the same bottle is either flat out lying or not the right formulation.

You never want to change the required coefficient off friction inside an automatic transmission unless you want to cut its useful life down.

ATF+4 is a specific formulation, but it's nothing special, just different than Dex/Merc.
 
Your tranny has "morning sickness", the last thing you want to add is that thick goo called Lucas. Your tranny likely has issues and will begin to slip again. I have bought some extra time with similiar problems using Lubeguard Red.The seals in the valve body have likely hardened up and leak internally. Things get somewhat better as the tranny warms up, the seals sofensome and begin to seal a little better. Long term outlook= overhaul.
 
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Now it is shifting beautifully and engages right away on cold start. If it is going to need an overhaul, I have at least put it off for 20,000 miles and hope to put it off for many more miles. We'll see. At least the overhaul (rebuilt tranny install actually) will be reasonable (about $1000-$1200) instead of the horrible $3000+ they wanted for the 2005 Mercury Mountaineer tranny (I sold the vehicle as is).

Back in the mid 1970s I had a C3 replaced for $400 out the door!
 
It probably doesn't need a rebuild it it responded so well to the ATF+4, it should get better with each new fill as you get more of the correct fluid in and more of the wrong fluid out.
 
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
It probably doesn't need a rebuild it it responded so well to the ATF+4, it should get better with each new fill as you get more of the correct fluid in and more of the wrong fluid out.

One tough little tranny! Hate to say it, but here is an automatic I can like, so long as I can keep my stick in my own vehicle!
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Originally Posted By: bullwinkle
MaxLife ATF is thinner than many OEM ATFs it is supposed to replace, it has caused problems for others here.


From their product data sheet:
Viscosity @ 100°C, cSt 5.91

That stuff is WATER!
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Good think I added the thick Lucas stuff to it. Looks like I have to put 2 gallons of Maxlife ATF up on Craigs List or something.
 
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