How long too run a quart of MMO with 3 quarts oil?

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: KCJeep
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
MMO isn't really intended to be a "flush" it is more of a slow, steady cleaner. Use a more modest amount in the future and simply run your normal OCI if you intend to clean it up with MMO. The PYB is an excellent choice for the oil.

You can run what you have much longer but it sounds like you've already got "the itch".


Question for you: If the solvent flashes off, how can it be a slow, steady cleaner if all you are left with is the base oil/carrier?


We don't know ALL the cleaners flash off, we just suspect they might. MMO says to run it full OCI, they ought to have an idea.

MMO is not promoted as a "flush".

I have used it and had a drop in level requiring top off, and I have used it where the level hasn't budged at all.


May depend on application then

An engine with a sump that doesn't get overly hot may benefit (possibly) from the solvent not immediately disappearing the first time it gets to operating temp then eh?

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
MMO isn't really intended to be a "flush" it is more of a slow, steady cleaner. Use a more modest amount in the future and simply run your normal OCI if you intend to clean it up with MMO. The PYB is an excellent choice for the oil.

You can run what you have much longer but it sounds like you've already got "the itch".


Question for you: If the solvent flashes off, how can it be a slow, steady cleaner if all you are left with is the base oil/carrier?


We don't know ALL the cleaners flash off, we just suspect they might. MMO says to run it full OCI, they ought to have an idea.

MMO is not promoted as a "flush".

I have used it and had a drop in level requiring top off, and I have used it where the level hasn't budged at all.


May depend on application then

An engine with a sump that doesn't get overly hot may benefit (possibly) from the solvent not immediately disappearing the first time it gets to operating temp then eh?


It might depend on the application as you said. My experiences are similar to KCJeep's. I've used it many times for 3 and 4K OCI's and the oil level stayed full the whole time. I had a few situations where it dropped a bit. I'd just top up with oil.

I think winter is the better time of the year to use it for those who are concerned with it flashing off. It takes the oil longer to get to operating temp making it a little less likely to flash off. It also aids in cold cranking and oil pressure coming up faster, as confirmed by my pre-luber. Just a few observations of mine.

 

[badtlc]

The one time I tried MMO in the sump, I didn't notice any drop in level from MMO flashing off. Doesn't seem possible.

 

[MinamiKotaro]

I've never had the oil level decrease when using MMO, either.

 

[Boss302fan]

I would check your oil level in the morning before driving and add PYB up to the full mark. Take this OCI out to 3K and drop it, then just do a PYB OCI and new filter for 5K...

 

[sw99]

I have run 20-25% MMO in several different vehicles for a full OCI and I will continue to do it. I typically like to do it every 3-5 oil changes these days. I have done it with 5w20, 5w30 and 15w40 HDEO. My engines are very clean other than the Corolla I picked up last year. The light varnish it had is fading fast.

 

[MolaKule]

Originally Posted By: ziggy
Hi all: ) I am 240 miles in on a engine flush* so to speak. 98 toyota corolla. 4 quart sump. I used a quart of MMO to replace a quart of oil. I used PYB 5w30.
Now ive read others using it 600 miles before an oil change. Ive read others run 20% of MMO for 1,700 miles then did an oil change. In my case, i used a quart. and a fram tough guard filter. How long am i supposed too leave this in my car?


What was the starting viscosity of your mix according to a VOA?

This guy did it correctly by finig out waht the resulting mix yielded:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...5W-20_an#UNREAD

 

[jfking106]

You might want to take it down to 1/2 of a quart. The manufacturer recommends a maximum of 20% replacement. 1 out of 4 quarts is 25%, obviously. Also, keep in mind MMO is a light oil, probably 10 weight, and it's diluting the viscosity of your motor oil. If you're going to run a whole quart, you might think about bumping up to the next weight class of motor oil to compensate.

 

[NothingNew]

Originally Posted By: jfking106
You might want to take it down to 1/2 of a quart. The manufacturer recommends a maximum of 20% replacement. 1 out of 4 quarts is 25%, obviously. Also, keep in mind MMO is a light oil, probably 10 weight, and it's diluting the viscosity of your motor oil. If you're going to run a whole quart, you might think about bumping up to the next weight class of motor oil to compensate.


Actually the manufacturer recommends a maximum of 25%. But I agree with the rest. Though with short trips in CT during the winter you might get away with running a very thin concoction. If this is a very dirty or sludged motor, or condition unknown, I'd personally start with a lower %.

From http://www.marvelmysteryoil.com/index.php/site/faq/ Can I use MMO to replace all of my regular engine oil?
No, you cannot use MMO to replace all the oil in the crankcase. The maximum amount of MMO to be used is 25% of crankcase capacity.

 

[BuckShirley]

I run it every oci , pint in warmer weather full quart in winter months

 

[kschachn]

...

 

[Bror Jace]

I have used MMO in the last 500 miles of an OCI in my '95 Civic a number of times.

Engine lasted at least 201,000 (hard) miles and then I lost track of the car.

Having said that, I might try a safer route and run an XW-30 HDEO and see how quickly the oil becomes dark.

 

[MolaKule]

The only cleaner I have recent experience with is Rislone Engine Cleaner which I believe to be a gentle cleaner and it doesn't thin your oil as much as MMO and some of the others.

Still, I would not run ANY cleaner past 500 miles.

I consider MMO to be more of a very short term (15 minute) flush.

 

[Rand]

why would you want to replace 25% of your oil with a 10w oil without proper motor oil additives?

you have just dropped your viscosity significantly and the additive level aprox 25% as well.

So when you are using an API SN level oil with for example 600-800ppm zddp -25% may be extremely detrimental .. or not so much depending on engine and oil used.

It may also thin out oils excessively. Its a smart idea if you are going to run a full quart to use a quart of heavier oil such as 15w40 which when combined with the 10w MMO wont be excessively thin.

most 15w40 also have higher levels of additives which will help the MMO which has no anti wear additives from excessively diluting the additive package.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: BuckShirley
I run it every oci , pint in warmer weather full quart in winter months


I had a friend in college who ran a quart every OCI dating back to the 1970's when he started driving. It was a tradition passed onto him from his father. He still does it till this day. I had the opportunity to change a valve cover gasket for him on a high mile Toyota when were we in college. His engine was as clean as the day it rolled off the line. Was it the MMO or luck? That's hard to tell, this was back in the days of API SD or SE oil, and by today's standards that oil was garbage.

 

[Trajan]

Originally Posted By: Rand
why would you want to replace 25% of your oil with a 10w oil without proper motor oil additives?

you have just dropped your viscosity significantly and the additive level aprox 25% as well.

So when you are using an API SN level oil with for example 600-800ppm zddp -25% may be extremely detrimental .. or not so much depending on engine and oil used.

It may also thin out oils excessively. Its a smart idea if you are going to run a full quart to use a quart of heavier oil such as 15w40 which when combined with the 10w MMO wont be excessively thin.

most 15w40 also have higher levels of additives which will help the MMO which has no anti wear additives from excessively diluting the additive package.


Did add it to the Z4. The only "benefit" was to shut off the oil light. One quart in a 7 quart sump of 5w-40.

 

[CentAmDL650]

Originally Posted By: Rand
why would you want to replace 25% of your oil with a 10w oil without proper motor oil additives?

you have just dropped your viscosity significantly and the additive level aprox 25% as well.

So when you are using an API SN level oil with for example 600-800ppm zddp -25% may be extremely detrimental .. or not so much depending on engine and oil used.

It may also thin out oils excessively. Its a smart idea if you are going to run a full quart to use a quart of heavier oil such as 15w40 which when combined with the 10w MMO wont be excessively thin.

most 15w40 also have higher levels of additives which will help the MMO which has no anti wear additives from excessively diluting the additive package.


I disagree about MMO having no anti wear additives.

Molakule and I recently had this discussion about his students' recent VOA lab tests on MMO... Because MMO recommends using the product in fuel, ZDDP cannot be present, as the EPA believes it reduces the effectiveness of catalytic converters over time (same reason they continue to reduce the allowable level of ZDDP in each successive API series of motor oil. So instead MMO uses TCP (tri cresyl phosphate), a significantly more expensive ashless AW (anti wear) additive at 900 ppm, which replicates the approximate ZDDP content and effect of typical API SN oil. This does a great job of boundary layer lubrication in both fuel and motor oil.

 

[jk_636]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: BuckShirley
I run it every oci , pint in warmer weather full quart in winter months


I had a friend in college who ran a quart every OCI dating back to the 1970's when he started driving. It was a tradition passed onto him from his father. He still does it till this day. I had the opportunity to change a valve cover gasket for him on a high mile Toyota when were we in college. His engine was as clean as the day it rolled off the line. Was it the MMO or luck? That's hard to tell, this was back in the days of API SD or SE oil, and by today's standards that oil was garbage.


I can absolutely relate to your friend, and I can say without a doubt it was the MMO. Outstanding stuff. I have used it in every vehicle I have ever owned, and if your were to pull the covers they would be so clean you could eat off it!!

 

[fredfactory]

Originally Posted By: CentAmDL650

I disagree about MMO having no anti wear additives.
Molakule and I recently had this discussion about his students' recent VOA lab tests on MMO... Because MMO recommends using the product in fuel, ZDDP cannot be present, as the EPA believes it reduces the effectiveness of catalytic converters over time (same reason they continue to reduce the allowable level of ZDDP in each successive API series of motor oil. So instead MMO uses TCP (tri cresyl phosphate), a significantly more expensive ashless AW (anti wear) additive at 900 ppm, which replicates the approximate ZDDP content and effect of typical API SN oil. This does a great job of boundary layer lubrication in both fuel and motor oil.

That makes no sense. Its the Phosphorous (the P in TCP and ZDDP) that is the catalyst destroyer, not the other parts of anything.

 

[MolaKule]

Originally Posted By: CentAmDL650
Originally Posted By: Rand
why would you want to replace 25% of your oil with a 10w oil without proper motor oil additives?

you have just dropped your viscosity significantly and the additive level aprox 25% as well.

So when you are using an API SN level oil with for example 600-800ppm zddp -25% may be extremely detrimental .. or not so much depending on engine and oil used.

It may also thin out oils excessively. Its a smart idea if you are going to run a full quart to use a quart of heavier oil such as 15w40 which when combined with the 10w MMO wont be excessively thin.

most 15w40 also have higher levels of additives which will help the MMO which has no anti wear additives from excessively diluting the additive package.


I disagree about MMO having no anti wear additives.

Molakule and I recently had this discussion about his students' recent VOA lab tests on MMO... Because MMO recommends using the product in fuel, ZDDP cannot be present, as the EPA believes it reduces the effectiveness of catalytic converters over time (same reason they continue to reduce the allowable level of ZDDP in each successive API series of motor oil. So instead MMO uses TCP (tri cresyl phosphate), a significantly more expensive ashless AW (anti wear) additive at 900 ppm, which replicates the approximate ZDDP content and effect of typical API SN oil. This does a great job of boundary layer lubrication in both fuel and motor oil.


TCP is actually cheaper than ZDDP.

I think people need to revisit the MMO Analysis thread and see my comments and edhackett's comments on MMO because I don't recall that exact conversation:

MMO Analysis

Phosphorus is present in motor oils as ZDDP, as a molecule containing the elements Sulfur, Phosphorus, and Zinc in specific proportions. The degradation of the precious metals in a CC is caused by too much Phosphorus, while the metallic components Sulfur and Zinc can coat those precious metals over time.

TCP was once used as one of the fuel system scavengers when gas quality was not on par with today's fuels.

In the MMO Analysis thread, Boomer gave a very good historical review as to why MMO was used for yesterday's fuels:

Quote:
It is the chlorinated species (ortho-dichloro benzene and isomers) that really made MMO a useful additive in engines when leaded gas was around. It supplemented the dibromoethane used as a lead scavenger in the engine and kept the engines clean.

Lead oxide was formed (a white powder) and the halogen compounds reacted with this oxide to produce lead bromide and chloride which was voltile and went out the tailpipe. In the air , it reacted with water to form hydrochloric/hydrobromic acid and various lead acids and oxides.