Workers strike at Port of L.A. Chi-junk piling up

[DBMaster]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: DBMaster
On the flip side, you can be a corporate cubicle dweller with no advocates. You will continuously have more work added to your job and, at review time, be told that you are "already too high on the salary scale." So, basically, if you do get a pittance of a raise you're still doing more work for less money.

Human beings will abuse any privilege that comes their way, be it having aggressive union representation, or, having authority over wage slaves.


I have a friend who is absolutely being walked over exactly how you describe. If the company would at least allow payment for actual hours worked, forget time and a half or anything like that, it would be OK. Donating excessive time is not.

Instead its a matter of giving up weekend days and time with kids to get projects done for work, because it is expected to do this extra plus work 40 due to being "salaried". Disgusting really.


YES, it is disgusting. A coworker recently had his workload increased significantly, albeit it temporarily, due to another coworker being out on STD. Our boss told him if he couldn't handle it he should stay later. This guy hasn't had a raise, period, in two years. What would you say/do?

Since this is Texas and we are generally free from the "oppressive" labor unions companies walk all over employees. Being salaried is NOT an excuse to expect more hours out of a worker, while at the same time paying lip service to the importance of family. I am turning 50 this year. At my present employer I see the younger workers (under 30) stay two years or less due to the lousy, 1950's vintage, military hierarchical management structure that many companies still hang onto. I probably don't have the luxury of changing jobs every two years. My best bet is most likely to find the job that is least personally disgusting to me and hang onto it until retirement. I'll bet many of you, if not in this boat, know many who are.

So, regardless of the perceived union abuses going on, I cannot throw stones.

 

[Mr Nice]

Luckily I have a good boss 200 miles away, I don't punch in / out, work 2 days at home and 3 days on the road, little politics and bull [censored] to deal with, non union and low stress good paying job with great benefits.

 

[DBMaster]

Originally Posted By: LT4 Vette
Luckily I have a good boss 200 miles away, I don't punch in / out, work 2 days at home and 3 days on the road, little politics and bull [censored] to deal with, non union and low stress job.


Sounds good to me! I am self-directed, more productive than the majority of my coworkers (even as measured by the company's skewed metrics), and require no boss to get the job done with a quality focus. In fact, in the fifteen years before this job I WAS a manager. I grew tired of the politics, the you-know-what kissing, and the assumed requirement to devote the majority of my life to the job.

I should probably get out of office work and do something hands-on, which is what I am best at. The problem there has been well discussed above. It's pretty difficult to make a "middle class" wage being a handyman.

 

[Blaze]

I have a good friend that works out of the Port of Tacoma. He started in 1990 and this is his first yr as crane operator and those big wages. He said probably half the workers are "A-list" making between 30K to 40K at yr. Not all make those kind of wages we are led to believe. It takes yrs to move up to that level. Personally I wouldn't want to work under some crane guy making 25k yr and looking for another job the pays more. Everyone has the right to work there. Go down and sit in the union hall and wait for work like all beginners do and work your way up, this is how my friend started. When they do hire folks are lined up around the block to work there. I think its every 3 yrs they do this. He also has told me its a matter of time these jobs go automated. He said its already started in some ports.

 

[Mr Nice]

Yeah, I doubt the average salary is $100,000K +
Sure the guys with the most seniority make that.

You can't blame people for wanting to get a job at the port or any port in the USA. I've been to the port of Miami many times and I'm sure its difficult to get hired.

 

[spackard]

> Go down and sit in the union hall and wait for work like all beginners do and work your way up, this is how my friend started.

Why'd he do this then, back when he started? Why not apply at another job? Because he knew the big salary was there if he just put in his time, without having to ever change employers.

There isn't a non-union place where you can expect to work your entire career at and get advanced simply because of a number you're assigned.

ILWU workers get full medical, dental benefits, zero out of pocket, pension.


> Yeah, I doubt the average salary is $100,000K +
> Sure the guys with the most seniority make that.

$35.68 base hourly, first shift. 2nd shift is $47.57, 3rd shift is $58.09.
That is $71,360, $95,140, 116,180 per year, no overtime. That's your base, not base plus benefits.
http://apps.pmanet.org/pubs/laborAgreements/2008-2014 PCLCD.pdf

It goes up from there, for "skill rates", "overtime", "penalty cargo", "subsistence rate", "bay bridge toll", "mileage", "personal effects damage".

But, this is BITOG, so you probably are interested in the mechanics wages (by shift, 1st to 3rd):
Journeyman $42.82 $57.09 $68.51
Leadman $46.38 $61.84 $74.21
Trainee $42.82 $57.09 $68.51
Or, in annual, base:
Journeyman 85640 114180 137020
Leadman 92760 123680 148420
Trainee 85640 114180 137020

 

[Mr Nice]

Good for them.

What does a trainee do?

 

[cashmoney]

If a person is lucky enough to live and be allowed to work in the US we are so lucky to be in a country with one of the biggest economies in the world. Every kind of job and career is available here to those that are willing to train for it and work hard enough to earn it. I have managed people/teams for last 25 years of a 35 year career so I had opportunity to work with all kinds of workers. I have always been struck by the HUGE difference in attitudes between people who are self motivated to excel and succeed and those who come to work with a sense of resentment or sense of entitlement. The latter are a serious PITA to work with and I worked hard at getting good over the years at running these types off as quickly as possible. I have no issue with folks in any kind of trade making "big bucks" as long as they truly earn it.

 

[Blaze]

Due to his great wages working at the Port. he has also been able to purchase seven run down houses and using them for rentals. He has hired out plumbers, electricians and carpenters to fix them up and also helping the area home values to rise. Plus the huge amount of property taxes he also pays. He pays it forward. Many $$ go straight back into the area economy he earns. He wife has been also able to set up a local animal shelter as a temporary placement home for dogs. Its not like wages are being hoarded and stuffed in walls here.

 

[bvance554]

This is what i gather from the union speak here, and from my life experience with unions. Both of my parents were 'union' and they provided a living, but you're a slave to the union. This is where the brainwashing comes from. The union makes you think they need you, but if you went out and busted your hump you could do just fine on your own. This leads us to the most whining bunch of union emoyees that we see here. Teachers? Worst union ever and you'll never find a group who complains more. I'm a salaried employee and a coworker was just let go for lack of performance. Yes I had to take on his work, but did I complain? No. I have no right to. I get paid well, my performance was better, so I have a job and I will reap the rewards of my own effort. Comaining never gets you anywhere. If you want to be a part of the union and continue to complain at every negotiation thats fine, but you'll never make any real progress. In fact you'll probaly lose. Don't tell me that the man, or big whatever is keeping you down. You are the only person keeping you down, and your union is enabling it by dangling carrots for their own benefit.

 

[antiqueshell]

Originally Posted By: bvance554
This is what i gather from the union speak here, and from my life experience with unions. Both of my parents were 'union' and they provided a living, but you're a slave to the union.


I have worked at both union and non-union businesses and I can tell you that at least with the union you have some chance of getting a decent wage, benefits, and equally important time off from work to live your life, without the union, you have a nearly impossible task of receiving any of those benefits fighting for them on your own, as a matter of fact you will be a slave to the business and many folks today in non-union shops work SEVEN DAYS A WEEK FOR MONTHS OR YEARS ON END! This is NOT in China, it is right here in the USA. Don't like it, tough if you don't work the endless hours they tell you to they will fire you.

 

[uc50ic4more]

Originally Posted By: bvance554
I'm a salaried employee and a coworker was just let go for lack of performance. Yes I had to take on his work, but did I complain? No. I have no right to.

And you speak of **others** as "brainwashed" and "slaves". Owners love nothing more than when workers compete with each other for their crumbs. They double over with laughter when those to whom they toss crumbs exhibit such subservience and loyalty.
Originally Posted By: bvance554
If you want to be a part of the union and continue to complain at every negotiation thats fine, but you'll never make any real progress.

Wow. And here I thought pretty much every right workers have was due to collective bargaining.
Originally Posted By: bvance554
You are the only person keeping you down, and your union is enabling it by dangling carrots for their own benefit.

Unions are collectives **of** workers who exist for the benefit of workers and who negotiate in the self-interests of workers. They balance the power of the owners of capital, who are also concerned exclusively with self-interest. Who is the "they" and "their" relative to the workers?
Originally Posted By: bvance554
and you'll never find a group who complains more.

Owners. And people who don't like unions.

 

[SHOZ]

One should never equate private and public sector unions. Private unions negotiate their benefits directly with those that pay them. Public sector unions do not and the taxpayer who does pay the benefits is not in the loop. Rather they deal with politicians who are easily bribed with campaign donation.

Private sector membership is dropping and public is rising. They are almost equal today.

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/union2.nr0.htm

Industry and Occupation of Union Members

In 2014, 7.2 million employees in the public sector belonged to a union, compared with
7.4 million workers in the private sector. The union membership rate for public-sector
workers (35.7 percent) was substantially higher than the rate for private-sector workers
(6.6 percent). Within the public sector, the union membership rate was highest for local
government (41.9 percent), which includes employees in heavily unionized occupations, such
as teachers, police officers, and firefighters. In the private sector, industries with
high unionization rates included utilities (22.3 percent), transportation and warehousing
(19.6 percent), telecommunications (14.8 percent), and construction (13.9 percent). Low
unionization rates occurred in agriculture and related industries (1.1 percent), finance
(1.3 percent), professional and technical services (1.4 percent), and food services and
drinking places (1.4 percent). (See table 3.)


Among occupational groups, the highest unionization rates in 2014 were in education, training, and library occupations and protective service occupations (35.3 percent each).

The lowest unionization rates were in farming, fishing, and forestry occupations (2.5 percent)
and sales and related occupations (3.1 percent). (See table 3.)

http://reason.com/blog/2011/03/01/why-private-sector-union-membe

Washington Post columnist Robert Samuelson has written a rarely seen, free-of-cant disquisition on the rise and fall of labor unions in the private sector. He notes that private-sector union membership is lower now (6.9 percent) than it was the Wagner Act, which mandated that employers allow and negotiate with unions, was passed in 1929. The percentage of private-sector workers in unions climbed to around 35 percent during World War II and then began a long slide that greatly accelerated in the '70s and '80s.

Georgia State's Barry Hirsch explains that, in 2006, union workers made about 19 percent more than non-unionized workers and that such a premium can exist when productivity and hence profits are higher.

 

[Scott_mi]

Originally Posted By: dlundblad
My union experience is limited to people just being allowed to slack off, get away with it and not be fired. In fact, the only way to get fired is to physically and intentionally harm someone, sexually harass or steal. That is my problem. Perhaps they aren't all like this?


Drinking alcohol and smoking weed on lunch breaks is acceptable. May get a short vacation but end up getting your job back.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVmKyJXHXRE

 

[bvance554]

Originally Posted By: uc50ic4more
Originally Posted By: bvance554
I'm a salaried employee and a coworker was just let go for lack of performance. Yes I had to take on his work, but did I complain? No. I have no right to.

And you speak of **others** as "brainwashed" and "slaves". Owners love nothing more than when workers compete with each other for their crumbs. They double over with laughter when those to whom they toss crumbs exhibit such subservience and loyalty.
Originally Posted By: bvance554
If you want to be a part of the union and continue to complain at every negotiation thats fine, but you'll never make any real progress.

Wow. And here I thought pretty much every right workers have was due to collective bargaining.
Originally Posted By: bvance554
You are the only person keeping you down, and your union is enabling it by dangling carrots for their own benefit.

Unions are collectives **of** workers who exist for the benefit of workers and who negotiate in the self-interests of workers. They balance the power of the owners of capital, who are also concerned exclusively with self-interest. Who is the "they" and "their" relative to the workers?
Originally Posted By: bvance554
and you'll never find a group who complains more.

Owners. And people who don't like unions.


We'll have to agree to disagree. I'm not a 'worker.' I'm an employee. 'Workers' work for communist regimes. As to your comment about 'workers' competing... what is wrong with that? THAT is a huge problem with a union - they enable subpar 'workers.' If you feel the need to have a union represent you thats fine. I don't feel that need.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: cashmoney
If a person is lucky enough to live and be allowed to work in the US we are so lucky to be in a country with one of the biggest economies in the world. Every kind of job and career is available here to those that are willing to train for it and work hard enough to earn it. I have managed people/teams for last 25 years of a 35 year career so I had opportunity to work with all kinds of workers. I have always been struck by the HUGE difference in attitudes between people who are self motivated to excel and succeed and those who come to work with a sense of resentment or sense of entitlement. The latter are a serious PITA to work with and I worked hard at getting good over the years at running these types off as quickly as possible. I have no issue with folks in any kind of trade making "big bucks" as long as they truly earn it.


Painfully accurate. I hope the entitled folks read this carefully.

I have created my own income for decades now. No job security at all, no benefits unless i buy them, and I pay BOTH SIDES of the payroll taxes.

My employees are paid much more than the individual averages in our field. When hired they are always offered hourly pay or commission only. You can tell a lot about their future here by which they choose...

 

[Jarlaxle]

Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
Originally Posted By: bvance554
This is what i gather from the union speak here, and from my life experience with unions. Both of my parents were 'union' and they provided a living, but you're a slave to the union.


I have worked at both union and non-union businesses and I can tell you that at least with the union you have some chance of getting a decent wage, benefits, and equally important time off from work to live your life, without the union, you have a nearly impossible task of receiving any of those benefits fighting for them on your own, as a matter of fact you will be a slave to the business and many folks today in non-union shops work SEVEN DAYS A WEEK FOR MONTHS OR YEARS ON END! This is NOT in China, it is right here in the USA. Don't like it, tough if you don't work the endless hours they tell you to they will fire you.


As a direct result of my company unionizing, I lost my profit sharing. The first year or the union, I took a pay CUT. Thanks a bunch, guys!

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
As a direct result of my company unionizing, I lost my profit sharing. The first year or the union, I took a pay CUT. Thanks a bunch, guys!


My wife used to work in the school system and had to pay union dues for 16 years whether she wanted to or not! We have retired and active educational folks in our immediate family who can tell many stories of how the unions actually are responsible for much of the decline in the public schools.

Once upon a time they may have been a positive force but now they have so much corruption it seems they may be outmoded...

 

[SHOZ]

Government unions are tics on society and only get what they have from bribing politicians who do the negotiating. The government union contracts are all negotiated and agreed to without any input from the end payer of the benefits.

 

[Mr Nice]

My older brother is an RN at a large VA hospital, he is union and makes $100K + with his 'GS' hourly pay and shift differential. Lots of people would love to have a government Union job with all the perks / pension. Low stress working for VA compared to a normal hospital.

A city here in Florida was looking to hire 12 new fire fighters.....
They got over 5000 applicants, they had to do a lottery just to be able to fill out an application.