Switching an old motor to Synthetic

[zray]

Originally Posted By: 4wheeldog
Originally Posted By: zray
No one else is mentioning this, so I'm jumping in with both feet.:

WHAT THE HECK !

Am I the only one that can count ? A1995 motor is not that old,it's barely 20 years old . I've been putting high quality synthetic oil in engines. 45 to 60 years old for the last 15 years. Don't let ANYONE tell you an older motor can't benefit froma high quality synthetic oil. Cast iron rings running up and down a cast iron cylinder or cylinder liner don't know if they are 50 years old or not. They only know it's gets hot doing their job, and synthetic oil reduces the friction they endure.

C'mon, have a heart. Give those old rings a break. They will last LONGER. The same goes double for rod and main bearings. And don't even get me started on flat tappet camshafts.. That means no roller lifters to you youngsters under 50.

So what if the engine uses a little oil. Put some synthetic oil in there anyway. You'll add more years of service to a engine on its last legs.

I've bee working in engines since 1963. I only wish synthetic ol was in widespread use back then.

Z.


I am even a bit older than you. And I use synthetic oil in almost ever motorized object I own.

I would agree with you (I have an engine that has 250k on it, synthetic all the way, never has used a drop).

Except......What do you consider "Using a little oil"? If one of these Saturn motors uses a quart every 700 miles on dino, it is likely to double that, on synthetic. Just sayin'.



Tell ya what, in the Interest of science and gambling, I''ll buy that Saturn owner a jug of Mobil 1 15w-50 if he will use it. I bet 4 quarts of the 5 are still in the crankcase 1000 miles later. If only 3 quarts are left , you win.

Now, what are we going to bet ? Has to be worth at least the price of the jug of Mobil 1 I'm putting up.

Z.

 

[4wheeldog]

Sorry, I do not bet with people I don't know, personally.

You did not answer my question........How much do you consider "A little oil"? Because these motors use what I would term "A lot of oil". Even 50 weight.

 

[zray]

Originally Posted By: 4wheeldog
Sorry, I do not bet with people I don't know, personally.

You did not answer my question........How much do you consider "A little oil"? Because these motors use what I would term "A lot of oil". Even 50 weight.


Ha ha . I only bet with strangers.

If a Ford engine leaks or burns more than a quart per two thousand miles I fix it or sell it. I don't know what is considered excessive with GM products . But I can't see a Saturn engine that goes thru a quart of conventional 10w-30 oil in 700 miles , using Any more than that if it was filled with Mobil1 15w-50, which is my choice of oils for all of my old Fords. I am making. An exception this winter and using Mobil1 0w-40 in my '65 HiPo Mustang cas an experiment. No change in oil pressure, oil or engine temperature, etc. so far.

Z.

 

[virginoil]

Originally Posted By: SuperGreen
I just purchased a 1995 Saturn SC2 5 speed. Was owned by 2 previous older gentleman and the car is in great shape ( mechanically and cosmetically). It has 155k miles on the engine and has only been drinking good ol' dinosaur oil. Now from what I've been reading, switching to synthetic will help clean up some sludge that has been built up and give this old mama some vigor. My father who is mechanically inclined but kind of goes by old wives tales, believes I should not make the switch. From various forums I've been on ( For saturn motors) experienced drivers are saying it is beneficial. I'm hoping to receive some feedback on this and possible some factual evidence of if it is good or bad. Thanks in advance.


Listen to your Father, no wives tales about switching it can cause issues and as it is mechanically sound let it be take no risks.

Until some factual evidence is posted and as none has been provided to date there is no reason in this thread to make a change.

 

[kschachn]

You have that burden of proof backwards. Each and every oil manufacturer's site I looked at (ExxonMobil, Valvoline, Sopus), all say it is fine.

I think the factual evidence needs to come from your side as opposed to what "my grandpappy used to say".

Originally Posted By: virginoil
Listen to your Father, no wives tales about switching it can cause issues and as it is mechanically sound let it be take no risks.

Until some factual evidence is posted and as none has been provided to date there is no reason in this thread to make a change.

 

[bubbatime]

Dude that is like a $1500 car. With regular driving it will consume at least a quart of oil every 1000 miles driven. Saturns love to consume oil. If the car was reasonably maintained, there will be absolutely no sludge in the engine.

What "benefits" are synthetic oils offering for your application, in your climate? Answer - none.

Go buy a case of the cheapest dino SN oil you can find in the proper weight and call it a day. And get used to checking and adding oil every time you fill the gas tank.

 

[virginoil]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
You have that burden of proof backwards. Each and every oil manufacturer's site I looked at (ExxonMobil, Valvoline, Sopus), all say it is fine.

I think the factual evidence needs to come from your side as opposed to what "my grandpappy used to say".

Originally Posted By: virginoil
Listen to your Father, no wives tales about switching it can cause issues and as it is mechanically sound let it be take no risks.

Until some factual evidence is posted and as none has been provided to date there is no reason in this thread to make a change.


The OP is hoping to clean out sludged engine. If do not know issues with cleaning out a sludge engine then you need do more research rather just surf oil sites.

I am too tired to spell out issues in switching.
Time for me to retire from this site for a while.
I will visit from time to time without my logging in.

He has asked for factual evidence, non provided to date to promote a change including your post.

 

[bubbatime]

Originally Posted By: virginoil
The OP is hoping to clean out sludged engine. If do not know issues with cleaning out a sludge engine then you need do more research rather just surf oil sites.


Do we know if the oil is sludged? Has the OP dropped the oil pan or removed the valve covers to confirm? Or does he just assume that an engine has sludge because it is 20 years old and run on dino oil it's entire life?

More than likely it is not sludged. These engines burn so much oil that you are constantly replenishing the oil with new. You could theoretically change the oil on Saturn cars every 25K miles because of high consumption and the engine would probably be fine.

 

[Dick in Falls Church]

I'd recommend using a good engine flush first. If you won't, or don't, then watch for sudden increase in oil consumption after a few thousand miles. If that happens, change the filter and top off. Depending on amount of sludge, may take a couple of filter changes.

I'd start with something like AMSOIL OE oil (their lowest grade). Run it for a normal oil change interval and see what happens. If all is well, move up to a higher grade and extend the drain interval. Wouldn't hurt to run an oil sample before you start, and after the first use of synthetic.

Far as the ATF is concerned--the Signature Series ATF is a bit better than the Torque-Drive.

 

[kschachn]

Really. So what would be a good engine flush that you would recommend? How does using a good engine flush prevent this sudden increase in oil consumption after a few thousand miles?

Why do you suppose ExxonMobil, or Shell, or Ashland don't recommend this?

Originally Posted By: **** in Falls Church
I'd recommend using a good engine flush first. If you won't, or don't, then watch for sudden increase in oil consumption after a few thousand miles. If that happens, change the filter and top off. Depending on amount of sludge, may take a couple of filter changes.

 

[Dick in Falls Church]

Best flushes I know of are from AMSOIL and BG. There may well be some other good ones.

A good flush will remove any easily removed sludge before the use of synthetic, which can do the same thing. Then the new filter would be less likely to become loaded prematurely.

Comments are based on about 35 years of experience.

I supposed ExxonMobile, or Shell, or Ashland don't recommend this because--

well, maybe for the same reason the manufacturer's recommend not changing their "lifetime" ATF. In part, I suppose it would discourage more folks from switching to synthetic if they had to take another step. Obviously, a flush is not mandatory. And there seems to be much less problem with sludge buidup with the newer non-synthetics-- and most folks aren't looking to extend the drain interval. But with very high mileage engines, it isn't going to hurt anything and may well help prevent a problem.

 

[vtunderground]

I've owned two Saturns - a 1991 SL2 and a 1999 SW2 (both with the DOHC motor).

The '91 got the oil changed ever 4000 miles with PYB. Towards the end, I was adding a quart of oil every other tank of gas. The car lasted 9 years and 175k miles.

The '99 got the oil changed every 4000 miles with Castrol GTX. At 50k miles I switched to Mobil 1. The VERY FIRST time I started the car after adding Mobil 1, a huge plume of smoke blew out of the tailpipe. The car immediately went from burning 1qt/4000 miles to 1qt/2000 miles. Oil consumption stayed at 1qt/2000 miles until I traded the car at 100k miles.

If I bought a 1995 Saturn, I would use Pennzoil High Mileage (based on good luck I've had with it in other oil burners), and not worry about synthetic. But that's just me.

Oh, and I replaced the fluid in the '99's manual transmission with Mobil 1 ATF. This made a noticeable improvement in shift feel. I highly recommend the tranny fluid change.

 

[zray]

Originally Posted By: bubbatime
"……. What "benefits" are synthetic oils offering for your application, in your climate? Answer - none……."



wrong. they offer the same benefit as they do for every engine: It will last longer as a result of the reduced friction. this is the primary benefit of quality synthetics.

The fact that the engine leaks oil is irrelevant.

Z

 

[crazyoildude]

if it is high mileage then i would not use synthetic use a good dino and all will be good... Dont try to fix it if it aint broke. It will probably start to leak the first sign is an oil smell. Listen to dad on this one. Dino oils are so close to synthetic anyway these days.

 

[Nickdfresh]

Originally Posted By: zray
Originally Posted By: 4wheeldog
Originally Posted By: zray
No one else is mentioning this, so I'm jumping in with both feet.:

WHAT THE HECK !

Am I the only one that can count ? A1995 motor is not that old,it's barely 20 years old . I've been putting high quality synthetic oil in engines. 45 to 60 years old for the last 15 years. Don't let ANYONE tell you an older motor can't benefit froma high quality synthetic oil. Cast iron rings running up and down a cast iron cylinder or cylinder liner don't know if they are 50 years old or not. They only know it's gets hot doing their job, and synthetic oil reduces the friction they endure.

C'mon, have a heart. Give those old rings a break. They will last LONGER. The same goes double for rod and main bearings. And don't even get me started on flat tappet camshafts.. That means no roller lifters to you youngsters under 50.

So what if the engine uses a little oil. Put some synthetic oil in there anyway. You'll add more years of service to a engine on its last legs.

I've bee working in engines since 1963. I only wish synthetic ol was in widespread use back then.

Z.


I am even a bit older than you. And I use synthetic oil in almost ever motorized object I own.

I would agree with you (I have an engine that has 250k on it, synthetic all the way, never has used a drop).

Except......What do you consider "Using a little oil"? If one of these Saturn motors uses a quart every 700 miles on dino, it is likely to double that, on synthetic. Just sayin'.



Tell ya what, in the Interest of science and gambling, I''ll buy that Saturn owner a jug of Mobil 1 15w-50 if he will use it. I bet 4 quarts of the 5 are still in the crankcase 1000 miles later. If only 3 quarts are left , you win.

Now, what are we going to bet ? Has to be worth at least the price of the jug of Mobil 1 I'm putting up.

Z.


Funny you mention this, there is a pretty good thread at Saturnfans by "Bill Murray" where he claims that using Mobil 1 0W-40 considerably cut oil consumption in his daughters SL...

I used Mobil 1 and Castrol 0W-30 in that engine with good effect...

 

[Nickdfresh]

OP, if you use syn, go thicker and maybe a high mileage like Mobil 1 10W-30, 10W-40, or Euro 0W-40. Many like 5W-40 Shell Rotella in those engines..

 

[GenesisGuy70]

Do it and don't think twice. A leak around a seal isn't a big deal. The benefits of synthetic far outweigh the leak.

 

[KzMitch]

So to sum it all up:

Definitely use synthetic.
Definitely don't use synthetic.
Get a new engine.
Don't get a new engine.
Use dino.
Don't use dino.

Things should be more clear now.

 

[virginoil]

Originally Posted By: KzMitch
So to sum it all up:

Definitely use synthetic.
Definitely don't use synthetic.
Get a new engine.
Don't get a new engine.
Use dino.
Don't use dino.

Things should be more clear now.


Wise man say stick what you have been doing for reasons below:
1. With that number of miles and age of vehicle something is working ok
2. No evidence to substantiate change here
3. BITOG hype and experimentation not called for in this situation
4. More important things in life to get on with
5. Your risk and at your cost to proceed for little return