Multi-Purpose 2-cycle oils: How is this possible?

I've been using cheap 2 stroke "[censored]" in everything I own for a long time, no problems. But if I had a high strung race bike it would be getting amsoil dominator ALL the time. By bikes and sleds usually get the stuff on the discount rack at auto zone or walmart. If I get a real good deal on amsoil I will run that...or maxima or belray or yamalube or anything else I get a good deal on...
 
Originally Posted By: Sterret
Originally Posted By: beanoil
There are a few offerings from Elf that fit your criteria. Shell AeroSport would be an alternative also. Almost anything less than 10.00 a quart is going to be mail order though. If you can find Citgo Sea and Snow, that was usually very reasonable, in the 5-6.00 range. BTW, if you check the msds of Lucas, you'll find it is very similar to Castrol Act-Evo. It one of the offerings from Lucas that isn't half bad,IMO.
My 2.00 a quart closeout Mobil MX2T still looks really good :).


Elf: Not available locally, or at any of the online retailers that I normally do business with. Is there a US-based site you can point me at?

Shell AeroSport: I'm aware of this product, but haven't been able to find it locally, and it is way overpriced online (at least on the sites I have been on). This is supposed to be the replacement for Pennzoil Air-cooled, which is a favorite of the ultralight pilots.

Citgo Sea and Snow: I'm aware of this product, too, and its supposed to be good stuff (along with its clone, Mystik Sea and Snow). I couldn't find this anywhere locally, either...

Lucas: Thanks for your comment on this. This oil seems to work quite well, although I have only run a few tankfuls in my one scoot so far.

Mobil MX2T: I've heard a lot of good things about this oil, and the fact that people scooped it up when it went on closeout. Unfortunately, it was long gone before I heard they were closing it out...just like the Castrol I use, which went down to 1.90/qt. at Pep Boys before it was gone.

Why is it that they always discontinue the good stuff?? :-(

Mystik sells direct on their web site if that helps.
 
They can claim the dual specs because of synthetic components.


Polysobutylene is used to replace petroleum brightstocks to reduce smoke and increase lubricity.

Diesters, polyolesters, and PAO are used in the better 2-cycle oils to reduce scuffing and ring sticking.
 
This is off topic but this thread is where, so far, I find the most relevant discussion.

Which type of 2 cycle oil, TCW-3 low temp/no ash or JASO FD higher temp/some ash would be best to add to my turbo car's gasoline to help with upper cylinder lubrication? I want to offset the 10:1 air/fuel ratios that "wash the cylinder walls" under boost but are necessary to suppress detonation when at high boost.
 
xbss,
while marvel mystery oil is not a 2cycle oil. i can be used as an upper end lube and i have seen it add hp on the dyno do to better ring/cylinder sealing. i have no idea what ash category if falls into.

imho, if you are going to spike your fuel with 2cycle oil, i think you would want no ash to help prevent stuck rings and cataletic issues. however, well all know that oil will lower the effective octane rating of your mixture and cause even more detonation.

steve
 
Thanks Sunruh. What is the octane consequence of MMO?

I'm looking to reduce the acceleration in the growth of cylinder wall taper that results from the increased ring/wall pressures that comes with high boost. Also, better ring/land and ring/wall seal. Whatever other benefits would be a bonus.

How much, generally, does two stroke oil at the 50 or 100:1 spec'd for outboards and motorcycles, increase detonation? Not asking for specifics, just an idea of the magnitude. Then, how much increase at say 500:1, or even 1000:1, when added as an upper cylinder lubricant in a four stroke?

Is the ashless oil less detonation prone?
As compared to the higher temp rated JASO FD spec, with its metallic additives?

Detonation is getting quenched by air:fuel ratios in the range of 10:1, so I can run a touch richer if need be.
 
i dont know that either but it will also be lower.
any oil added will lower the octane. due of course to the much lower flash point of oil. any oil.

we were adding 3 cap fulls to 1.8gal so the ratio was big.

if you go at 1000:1 you may not see any detectable difference.
heck 250:1 may not even show.

a half pint to 10gal may be in that range.

the only real way to know would be dyno testing using a controlled fuel subtank and changing out the ratios.

also with a turbo i would think you would want as less ash as possible hitting the turbine vanes. too many "parts" in a turbo setup that i would not want clogged.

steve
 
This is off-topic from the original posted question but I wanted to mention products that I use that have performed incredibly well for me over the years.

Kawasaki K-tech OPE oil.
Kawasaki Racing 2-stroke (semi-syn, ashless)
Castrol RS 2T
Motul 710
Spectro Platinum SX-2 (least favorite but performs great)
Mobil-1 MX2T (still have 2 qts and will miss it when it's gone).
Klotz BeNol (super thick 15cSt miracle lube)
Blendzall #460 racing castor (likely the best oil in the world)

I have a $5 gift cert for O'Reilly that I plan on buying a quart of Lucas Semi-syn oil with. When the company can't even spell correctly the ratings that the oil supposedly meets I tend to not put much faith in the product. I'll try it for being nearly free though.
 
Originally Posted By: FowVay
This is off-topic from the original posted question but I wanted to mention products that I use that have performed incredibly well for me over the years.

Kawasaki K-tech OPE oil.
Kawasaki Racing 2-stroke (semi-syn, ashless)
Castrol RS 2T
Motul 710
Spectro Platinum SX-2 (least favorite but performs great)
Mobil-1 MX2T (still have 2 qts and will miss it when it's gone).
Klotz BeNol (super thick 15cSt miracle lube)
Blendzall #460 racing castor (likely the best oil in the world)

I have a $5 gift cert for O'Reilly that I plan on buying a quart of Lucas Semi-syn oil with. When the company can't even spell correctly the ratings that the oil supposedly meets I tend to not put much faith in the product. I'll try it for being nearly free though.

Any info on what the viscosity is at 100C for the Kawasaki oils? I looked around and wasn't able to find an MSDS on either of them nor any other technical data. Why was the Spectro oil the "least favorite" specifically? Also, have you tried Lucas Semi-Synthetic 2 cycle? Been reading a lot of great things about it even though it is a thinner oil (7.5 cst@100). Believe it or not it seems like Pennzoil Marine is legitimately useable in air cooled engines as well, never tried it myself though. From what I've gathered, the oil most comparable to what was considered the best (long discontinued Mobil 1 Racing 2T) that's currently available in the US is Maxima K2.

Originally Posted By: Loobed

I don't think small leave blower engines care too much about the oil. They spin real fast and are usually over cooled. Air cooled motorcycle, or ultralight engines may need a specific type of oil. Japanese motorcycle manufacturers require another type of oil (J rated??).


(just a guess) One reason why a two stroke oil could be labeled as "Mufti-Purpose" is that they contain a higher quality base stock that doesn't require an ash producing additive package. That way it can be used in air cooled as well as water cooled engines. Another guess is that most people aren't sure what they need, and most likely the TCW-3 oil won't hurt.

http://www.flyinggiants.com/forums/showt...4239&page=2
Quote:
Figured I would jump in here with a different perspective.

I fly 2 gasser helicopters that run consistently in the 12500-14000 rpm range and don't get even close to the amount of cooling and airflow that air engines do.

I have been running pennzoil marine (this EXACT oil in question by the OP) for over 2 years. Both my engines are $500+ modified engines by TRM (Toxic Racing) and BH (BH Hanson). Both oils have been tested and BH Hanson even recommends it as an option.

The Oil was originally tested and verified to work exceptionally well by Chris Bergen of Bergen RC Helicopters and has been used and is currently being used by a very large segment of the Gasser RC Heli Community. You can do a search at Helifreak and Runryder.com and see that this oil has undergone some serous discussion and scrutiny.

I am currently running it in my DLE35RA and have had the engine apart and it looks wonderful on the inside...just like the rest of my engines.

The ONLY complaint I have ever had is that it does build up a small amount of carbon. BUT, I have yet to find an oil that doesn't. There are many variables to that and, per Al at TRM, a small heart shaped carbon pattern on the top of the piston is normal.

In summary, using this oil is perfectly fine. It runs exceptionally well and WILL NOT damage your engine. If you are concerned, as others have stated, there are tons of oils out there to choose from and at the end of the day, if it makes you feel better, go with something else. BUT.....you can run it and your engine will be perfectly fine.

Anyone who states anything negative about it is simply misinformed or offering pure opinions. We all have opinions, but my statements and results are based on facts collected and experienced by myself and experts in the RC engine industry...not weekend worriers with a keyboard and a mouse.

To answer the OP specifically: PENZOIL Marine full synthetic is GOOD
 
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Reason for double rated 2t oils is probably this....

http://www.oilspecifications.org/api_2t.php

TD Obsolete
Designed for water-cooled outboard engines, this classification used the identical engine test to that in the National Marine Manufacturers association (NMMA) TC-W category. API TD has been superseded, and is no longer accepted by the NMMA, who now recommend oils meeting the requirements of TC-W3 for water-cooled outboard engines.

My opinion....use API TC for air cooled 2t engines

and API TCW3 for outboard engines...

Because they double rated those oils only "over/by the tumb" ( i am not sure if a used right words here
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I use the Valvoline multi purpose oil mixed to 32:1. I run in a mixed bag of 2strokes The weed wackers and Mantis want 50 :!, Stihl saw 40::1 Lawnboy mower 32:1 outboard oil. It was a little much for the worn out Mantis, but runs fine in the new one. I bought the last qt in '20. Its only the 3rd one I've bought since the Auto zone opened down town 10 yrs ago. This is what keeps my stuff going. I mix it a qt at a time to keep it fresh.. This isn't running a sled or a jetski or a bike. at max performance.
 
They can claim the dual specs because of synthetic components.


Polysobutylene is used to replace petroleum brightstocks to reduce smoke and increase lubricity.

Diesters, polyolesters, and PAO are used in the better 2-cycle oils to reduce scuffing and ring sticking.
I was going to post something similar.

The OP's statement contains: "It is important to note that oil designed to meet TCW3 specs. only (Ashless) will not protect an engine requiring API-TC (Low Ash) type oil".

That's just not true. In fact, racers of very high HP output engines such as Kart and 125cc motocross engines do sometimes choose to use a TCW-3 oil, and the results are often quite good, without ring sticking or excess deposits. AND, there are valid viscosity based reasons for such a choice. However, they use the oil in very rich mixtures, generally about 20 to 1. Quality two stroke oils have moved away from "brightstock" and as a result, there are oils that can work well in multiple applications.

I just choose a quality EG-D oil, mix at 32 to 1 and use it in everything.
 
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